Why do people prefer pump actions over semi-auto? - Page 5

neon · July 17, 2009, 04:16 PM

It's just more tacticool to put stuff on a pump. You got
your light, pistol grip and other goodies.

Evertime I see a semi I think of two old men in the brushes
hunting quail.

GE-Minigun · July 17, 2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

I put out a challenge some time ago that I would put a 100 dollar bill on the fact I can shoot 5 rounds through my Berreta 390 faster than you can through your pump of any brand. I wasn't even throwing my Benneli into the mix to keep it fair,,, sorta. Actually, I'd put the Benneli against any pump or any one. Simple fact there is NO way you can shuck a shell out, pump one in and pull the trigger FASTER than I can simply pull the trigger. I think Tom Knapp has proven this time and again.

Bring a lot of money...I've yet too be beat by a semi against my 870.

johnbt · July 17, 2009, 05:42 PM

"Simple fact there is NO way you can shuck a shell out, pump one in and pull the trigger FASTER than I can simply pull the trigger."

That may be true with today's designs, but it wasn't true 30, 40, 50 years ago. Maybe not 20 years ago. Semiautos cycle at a fixed rate, pumps can go as fast as you can work them.

John

NWPilgrim · July 17, 2009, 05:51 PM

Mainly expense. For me shotgun is rarely used anymore except for HD. If I shot one a lot then spending $1,000 or more for a nice auto would be worth it. But for HD I can buy two or three pumps for the price of one semi-auto.

There are a lot of nice semi shotguns out there so someone is buying them!

orionengnr · July 17, 2009, 05:54 PM

dreaded double-tap...

orionengnr · July 17, 2009, 05:58 PM

Well, I read the first page and the last, but not the two in between. Wouldn't surprise me if someone has already said this, but here goes:

A pump shotgun (much like a revolver) will fire anything from the lightest to the heaviest loads without a problem.

I have had problems with my 1100, as have many. I miss it, I may buy another, but if I do, it will be a clay or bird shooter, not an HD gun.

For HD my 18 1/2" barreled Wingmaster is my choice.

Brian Pfleuger · July 17, 2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Semiautos cycle at a fixed rate, pumps can go as fast as you can work them.

If you wear active hearing protection you can easily and distinctly hear the time it takes for the action to cycle. It is much slower than I would have expected but it is also MUCH faster than anyone can cycle a pump gun, IMHO. I will believe so until I SEE otherwise.

mathman · July 17, 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Bring a lot of money...I've yet too be beat by a semi against my 870.

roy reali · July 17, 2009, 06:52 PM

I have an over and under. I'll bet I can fire two shots with it faster then any auto or pump. Two trigger side-by-sides, all bets are off.

greyson97 · July 17, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Bring a lot of money...I've yet too be beat by a semi against my 870.

http://www.facebook.com/v/906745093480

so you are telling me, you can get 7 rounds off faster than I can? and i wasnt shooting as fast as i could in that video

GE-Minigun · July 18, 2009, 11:21 AM

In that video...yep.

Piper Cub · July 18, 2009, 11:54 AM

reliable and simple

hogdogs · July 18, 2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

so you are telling me, you can get 7 rounds off faster than I can? and i wasnt shooting as fast as i could in that video

While I am not going to bet cash on this debate, I will say that that was dreadfully slow compared to me goofing around with my 500 20 gauge and to top it off I don't have 12 inches of muzzle rise in 6 rounds... All 6 must hit a 24X24 yard sign or I consider it an utter failure.
Brent

greyson97 · July 18, 2009, 12:12 PM

well yeah. i'm a nub. i dont deny that. but you put that gun i was using in the hands of a trained shotgunner, and would you still say that?

also, lets see some vids of pumpers getting off a lot of rounds in very few seconds

hogdogs · July 18, 2009, 12:28 PM

I can only fire my pump 500 as fast as I can pull the trigger so I doubt I could shoot an autoloader any faster. Now if I could figure a way to train my finger to work quicker...
I am admittedly not the fastest with finger action. It isn't the pump action that slows me down... I can fire my 500 about as fast as I can a Ruger Mk .22 pistol.

On a side note... just a hint... Newbies should refrain from betting against just about any experienced shooter out there.... unless of course it is just a polite way of donating to the ammo hungry shooters. There are guys that will bet you they can put 4 on target with a single shot faster than you and take your money when they break out a golf ball as the target and hurl it 30 yards down range and say "You first big boy..."
Brent

NWPilgrim · July 18, 2009, 11:08 PM

A pump can easily shoot several rounds in a few seconds. You need to get to the range more if you doubt that. No big trick.

I was playing around one time with a 500 shooting clay pigeons and a guy coming up the dirt track said he thought I was shooting a machine gun. The shotgun is my worst firearm skill so I know many others could easily shoot faster and better than me.

Plus, there is a BIG difference in shooting light target loads and home defense buckshot or slugs.

Given all that, I would still like a semi-auto, but I don't see when that will ever become a priority with its cost compared to all my other firearms "needs."

Dave McC · July 19, 2009, 08:59 AM

A couple things on the "Semi/Pump which is faster" debate.....

A good friend had a well worn A5 that he was deadly with. I could get off a useful second shot with my 870 before he could.

Back when I instructed, the demos I did with an 870 loaded with birdshot or buck consisted of traverse fire on five targets at 15 yards with all solid hits were often timed. Under 4 seconds was frequent.

If anything, I'm faster now and well trained younger shooters are faster yet.

Those times were from low ready.

I do regard this as a bit moot. Some 3 gun fans are greased lightning with their autos, but they use and train for real world probs with pumps, and that's not all dept policy and procedures.

The key is use what you want, but know how to run your gun.....

Lee Lapin · July 19, 2009, 09:09 AM

know how to run your gun.....

Gospel...

http://www.webscription.net/chapters...1439132852.htm , and read Chapter 5. Give Larry a run at it...

lpl (he can do it with a Saiga too)

johnbt · July 19, 2009, 02:38 PM

"A pump can easily shoot several rounds in a few seconds."

5 in 2 seconds, give or take a small fraction.

Here's what I could find with a brief search: a 2.85-second Dozier on youtube with an 870 tactical and he looks like he is shooting quite deliberately.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M-ZfByZx4o

When you start talking 2 seconds and under it gets interesting. I searched to find a World Record with no success.

John

johnbt · July 19, 2009, 02:50 PM

Seen this one? In cowboy action shooting you have to start with an empty gun on the table.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMOoqaGAT4

4 shots in 2.54, loading one at a time, using a '97 and 4 factory birdshot loads. The timer updates on each shot.

The shooter posted in the comments about the shells, the timer, etc. He grabbed 4 shells at the beginning.

John

greyson97 · July 19, 2009, 05:13 PM

5 rounds in 2 seconds is impressive for a pump. even 6-7 if you are a machine.

but i want to restate, i am an ametuer/novice shooter, and i was able to get off 7 rounds in 2 seconds in my video and that was the very first time i tried something like that.

If i were to continue to practice and improve, i know i could get more rounds off, maybe 8-9 in 2 seconds, and they would be on target.

hogdogs · July 19, 2009, 05:38 PM

But as previously stated... the gun will only fire as fast is it can "self cycle" which can only be so fast... The pump gun does not suffer that limitation

Brent

MLeake · July 19, 2009, 06:06 PM

Greyson97, that's great, but were you aiming at anything? If you were aiming, were you hitting?

If so, fine, otherwise the ability to shoot faster than you can acquire target isn't necessarily doing you any good, and could cause you some liability issues.

greyson97 · July 19, 2009, 06:21 PM

yeah, i already destroyed the 2 clays in the first 2 shots, and i was just shooting 7 rounds rapid fire for fun. so 5 shots went nowhere

Anticonn · July 19, 2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

But as previously stated... the gun will only fire as fast is it can "self cycle" which can only be so fast... The pump gun does not suffer that limitation

I found recoil to assist in pumping quite nicely, using my forward hand as an inertia-driven action, if you will

However I suck far too much with a shotgun at this point to time it. I discovered this recoil-pumping by accident, and at the cost of some finger-meat (hurts like a bastard)

July 17, 2009, 05:51 PM	#104
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,350	Mainly expense. For me shotgun is rarely used anymore except for HD. If I shot one a lot then spending $1,000 or more for a nice auto would be worth it. But for HD I can buy two or three pumps for the price of one semi-auto. There are a lot of nice semi shotguns out there so someone is buying them! __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

July 17, 2009, 05:54 PM	#105
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	dreaded double-tap... Last edited by orionengnr; July 17, 2009 at 05:59 PM.

July 17, 2009, 06:52 PM	#109
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	My Bet I have an over and under. I'll bet I can fire two shots with it faster then any auto or pump. Two trigger side-by-sides, all bets are off.

July 18, 2009, 11:08 PM	#116
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,350	A pump can easily shoot several rounds in a few seconds. You need to get to the range more if you doubt that. No big trick. I was playing around one time with a 500 shooting clay pigeons and a guy coming up the dirt track said he thought I was shooting a machine gun. The shotgun is my worst firearm skill so I know many others could easily shoot faster and better than me. Plus, there is a BIG difference in shooting light target loads and home defense buckshot or slugs. Given all that, I would still like a semi-auto, but I don't see when that will ever become a priority with its cost compared to all my other firearms "needs." __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

July 19, 2009, 06:06 PM	#123
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	7 rounds in 2 seconds Greyson97, that's great, but were you aiming at anything? If you were aiming, were you hitting? If so, fine, otherwise the ability to shoot faster than you can acquire target isn't necessarily doing you any good, and could cause you some liability issues.

July 17, 2009, 04:16 PM	#101
neon Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 196	It's just more tacticool to put stuff on a pump. You got your light, pistol grip and other goodies. Evertime I see a semi I think of two old men in the brushes hunting quail.

July 17, 2009, 05:42 PM	#103
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"Simple fact there is NO way you can shuck a shell out, pump one in and pull the trigger FASTER than I can simply pull the trigger." That may be true with today's designs, but it wasn't true 30, 40, 50 years ago. Maybe not 20 years ago. Semiautos cycle at a fixed rate, pumps can go as fast as you can work them. John

July 17, 2009, 05:58 PM	#106
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	Well, I read the first page and the last, but not the two in between. Wouldn't surprise me if someone has already said this, but here goes: A pump shotgun (much like a revolver) will fire anything from the lightest to the heaviest loads without a problem. I have had problems with my 1100, as have many. I miss it, I may buy another, but if I do, it will be a clay or bird shooter, not an HD gun. For HD my 18 1/2" barreled Wingmaster is my choice.

July 18, 2009, 11:21 AM	#111
GE-Minigun Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Posts: 240	In that video...yep.

July 18, 2009, 11:54 AM	#112
Piper Cub Junior member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: TEXAS Posts: 491	reliable and simple

July 18, 2009, 12:12 PM	#114
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	well yeah. i'm a nub. i dont deny that. but you put that gun i was using in the hands of a trained shotgunner, and would you still say that? also, lets see some vids of pumpers getting off a lot of rounds in very few seconds

July 18, 2009, 12:28 PM	#115
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I can only fire my pump 500 as fast as I can pull the trigger so I doubt I could shoot an autoloader any faster. Now if I could figure a way to train my finger to work quicker... I am admittedly not the fastest with finger action. It isn't the pump action that slows me down... I can fire my 500 about as fast as I can a Ruger Mk .22 pistol. On a side note... just a hint... Newbies should refrain from betting against just about any experienced shooter out there.... unless of course it is just a polite way of donating to the ammo hungry shooters. There are guys that will bet you they can put 4 on target with a single shot faster than you and take your money when they break out a golf ball as the target and hurl it 30 yards down range and say "You first big boy..." Brent

July 19, 2009, 08:59 AM	#117
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	A couple things on the "Semi/Pump which is faster" debate..... A good friend had a well worn A5 that he was deadly with. I could get off a useful second shot with my 870 before he could. Back when I instructed, the demos I did with an 870 loaded with birdshot or buck consisted of traverse fire on five targets at 15 yards with all solid hits were often timed. Under 4 seconds was frequent. If anything, I'm faster now and well trained younger shooters are faster yet. Those times were from low ready. I do regard this as a bit moot. Some 3 gun fans are greased lightning with their autos, but they use and train for real world probs with pumps, and that's not all dept policy and procedures. The key is use what you want, but know how to run your gun.....

July 19, 2009, 09:09 AM	#118
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	know how to run your gun..... Gospel... http://www.webscription.net/chapters...1439132852.htm , and read Chapter 5. Give Larry a run at it... lpl (he can do it with a Saiga too)

July 19, 2009, 02:38 PM	#119
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"A pump can easily shoot several rounds in a few seconds." 5 in 2 seconds, give or take a small fraction. Here's what I could find with a brief search: a 2.85-second Dozier on youtube with an 870 tactical and he looks like he is shooting quite deliberately. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M-ZfByZx4o When you start talking 2 seconds and under it gets interesting. I searched to find a World Record with no success. John

July 19, 2009, 02:50 PM	#120
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Seen this one? In cowboy action shooting you have to start with an empty gun on the table. www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMOoqaGAT4 4 shots in 2.54, loading one at a time, using a '97 and 4 factory birdshot loads. The timer updates on each shot. The shooter posted in the comments about the shells, the timer, etc. He grabbed 4 shells at the beginning. John

July 19, 2009, 05:13 PM	#121
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	5 rounds in 2 seconds is impressive for a pump. even 6-7 if you are a machine. but i want to restate, i am an ametuer/novice shooter, and i was able to get off 7 rounds in 2 seconds in my video and that was the very first time i tried something like that. If i were to continue to practice and improve, i know i could get more rounds off, maybe 8-9 in 2 seconds, and they would be on target.

July 19, 2009, 05:38 PM	#122
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	But as previously stated... the gun will only fire as fast is it can "self cycle" which can only be so fast... The pump gun does not suffer that limitation Brent

July 19, 2009, 06:21 PM	#124
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	yeah, i already destroyed the 2 clays in the first 2 shots, and i was just shooting 7 rounds rapid fire for fun. so 5 shots went nowhere