S&W 1854 PCC

[taylorce1]

I just looked at an email I recieved from S&W and it was promoting their 1854 lever action carbine in .44 Magnum. I've never been much of a PCC fan, but afer a friend passed in 2022 leaving me a Ruger .44 Carbine I might be changing my tune. While I don't shoot that carbine a lot, it is always fun when I take it to the range for a few rounds.

So the email they sent shows a 416 stainless forged reciever and barrel, 9+1 capacity, synthetic stock and forend, as well as a couple M-Loc attachment points on the forend. 19.5" threaded barrel for muzzle device of choice, pic rail with aperture rear sight built in for attaching optics.

The one feature I'm on the fence about is a removable magazine tube for unloading the rifle. It looks like it works just like a tube fed .22lr as far as removal. It should work well, I'm just happy it has a side gate for loading.

There is a satin black PVD coated SS carbine with walnut for the more purists of the lever action crowd. The price tag is $1200 for the SS synthetic rifle and $3200 for the wood stocked version. The price on the SS is a little cheaper than the used SS 77/44 Rugers I've been looking at.

I don't really have a practical reason for these carbines. They aren't legal to hunt with here in CO as they don't usually have the required 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards for a rifle to be legal on big game. However, who says you need practicality to own a rifle in a pistol caliber?

[ernie8]

Do you have a photo of a S&W 1854 lever carbine ?

[Crunchy Frog]

Interesting that the model name and the promotional literature harken back to the Volcanic, which was the basis of the 1860 Henry, and the “toggle link” Winchesters, primarily the 1866 and 1873, but the rifle appears to be based on the Marlin 336 (as is the Henry Big Boy).

The nine round magazine capacity means it won’t be a good choice for cowboy action; then again the “tactical” version has features that make it illegal under current SASS rules.

[jetinteriorguy]

Whaaaat? S&W makes a lever, I gotta check this out.

[stagpanther]

Pretty interesting--looks semi-tacticool but enough "trad" that it could be very well take off. I remember when Mossberg tried a tactical lever gun with AR-ish features in 357 and it flopped. Maybe this S&W hits just the right balance. Not sure I'd call $1,200 cheap--but it's been a while since I've bought an off the shelf NIB lever gun so I suppose they too have gone up significantly.

[bamaranger]

A move to keep up/erode Ruger-Marlin sales? Temp check....... I'm lukewarm and predict low sales and short production run. Regret to say maybe the same for the Ruglin too. Over a grand for a design that has established competition and established fanbase (the Ruglin). Rossi has the other end of the price scale at around $700.

For the same money one could buy two bare bones AR's, a better AR with an optic, maybe 3 Ruger American's , two Americans with a servicable scope for one, etc. The industry (and the politics behind it) have just about priced the sport out of the reach of the blue collar man (or the retired man).
There's a reason Rossi's, American's, Tisas, Hyundai's and heaven forbid Hi-Point's, sell so well, it's about all the average guy can afford.

What S&W should have done is come up with design for a semi .44mag carbine like either of the old Rugers.

[44 AMP]

Not sure I'd call $1,200 cheap--

MSRP for the base model is given as $1279, and then add in taxes, and any fees, and you're going to be around $1400 and that's out of my "cheap" range, even allowing for the increase in price of everything these days.

I had to look that one up, from the pictures, it clearly has Marlin DNA in its ancestry. I hope the rear peep folds down, otherwise it could become an actual
"ghost" ring easily since its not protected.

Big loop lever, seems to have the pushbutton safety, and, from the text, apparently the mag tube is removable for "safe unloading".

I think its a smart move, offering both the "tactical" and the traditional models. We'll have to see which one is more popular, I guess.

I think if it was priced at $800 they'd sell them by the truckload. At nearly $1300, I think not so much.

[Pumpkin]

I am a long time S&W fan but would much rather spend too much money on a original Marlin, or even a new Ruger/Marlin. The newer Mossbergs (non-tactical) lever guns would also be preferable to this new Smith for my self.

[Pumpkin]

Not too many rules these days for who will be producing what. I will say though that a comfortable retirement has done more to slow down my gun buying than any politician could ever have done, except that maybe they did have a significant part in these crazy prices.
I’ll go ahead and take a Henry 9mm instead.

[jetinteriorguy]

I’d definitely be in under $900.00 and if they’d add a .357 mag version. I think the deal with the high prices on a lot of these current ‘tactical’ lever action rifles is that they are targeting people in the states with their unconstitutional laws.

[Pumpkin]

If Remington were still around, the popularity of their pump action rifles could really be on the upswing.

[taylorce1]

I wouldn't call it a true tactical carbine, there are only three M-Loc slots on the forend. It's no where near tactical when compared to the Mossberg SPX.

I agree the MSRP on them is a little daunting, especially on what would be a range toy for the most part. If I made a habit of running cats and bears with dogs, then I could easily justify one.

[Pumpkin]

I bet the serious hog hunting crowd will be one of main buyers.
Smith needs offer a rebate though.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

I bet the serious hog hunting crowd will be one of main buyers.

Hardcore hog hunters will not put down their AR-15/10s for a lever action.

[Mrgunsngear]

Should be picking mine up tomorrow. Looking forward to it

[Straitshot]

Folks always complaining about how expensive lever rifles are now and yet they are the most involved and complicated rifle to manufacture. Their use-to-be inexpensive price range is probably one of the reasons all the original lever rifle companies are now owned by someone else or made overseas. These new S&W rifles are in the same price range as the new Ruger made Marlins. I was looking at one of the new stainless-steel Rossi R95's and it was $999 at a local gun shop. The MSRP is $1212.99 so even the Rossi is about the same as the new Ruger made Marlins in price range. The days of the inexpensive lever rifle are gone and that probably includes used ones as well for the most part. One might find a bargain on occasion, but those days are slipping away quickly as well.
.
..

[taylorce1]

@Mrgunsngear

Let us know what you think!

[44 AMP]

Folks always complaining about how expensive lever rifles are now and yet they are the most involved and complicated rifle to manufacture.

OK, so how did it work back in the 70s when a new Win 94 was $105 and a new Model 70 (standard grade) was $180???

[stagpanther]

I was looking at one of the new stainless-steel Rossi R95's and it was $999 at a local gun shop. The MSRP is $1212.99 so even the Rossi

For a Rossi--no way I'd ever pay that.

[taylorce1]

KYGUNCO has both versions of the 1854 available. The stainless synthetic is just under $1200, and the black PVD and Walnut is right at $3500. They're not backing off MSRP very much.

[bamaranger]

I thought of the price discrepancy "back in the day" also. I well remember that Wally World sold Marlin 336's (real Marlins) for $100 bucks LESS than a 700 ADL or even a push feed M70 Win. I found an image on line of a 1970's Kmart ad price....$197 for a Marlin "straight grip" carbine. A Rem 700 ADL was $337(?), likely with walnut stock.

I live not far from a public range and scavenged brass there frequently. Up until about 1995, by far and away the most common spent case I found was.....yup, 30-30. Stick a Tasco on top of your side eject Marlin and you had a very capable whitetail rifle and a box of shells for about $250 bucks. Factory 30-30 ammo was cheaper than '06 and .270.

I'm not an economist. I can't go on about the cost of labor and materials. I have read that CNC machining can turn out parts quicker, with higher tolerances, than the old grizzled machinist with his wire rim glasses and a cigar.

Seems it would take the same amount of material in 1970 as in 2023. How much more that material costs would be a factor. Cost of labor would be a factor. Then there is profit margin, how much is being made (by who) on production v. salesl.

I dunno, but it all seems backwards to me.

[Straitshot]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

OK, so how did it work back in the 70s when a new Win 94 was $105 and a new Model 70 (standard grade) was $180???

First off, I don't believe a new M94 was just $105 in 1970. You will have to provide some verifiable evidence before I accept that. But even if it was $105 in 1970 is worth approximately $830 in 2024 according to inflation calculators. That is pretty darn close to current LGS prices.

[Pumpkin]

My first deer rifle was a model 94 my dad bought me from Woolco. It was just under $100 in 1976.

[ciwsguy]

Why would anyone buy one? Because lever guns are fun.
Downside thoughts:
1) Lever guns are not that accurate. Typically 3 MOA or so is what I see most of the time in 44 and 357.
2) Ammo that shoots accurately in a revolver usually don't shoot that accurately in lever gun, but that may be related to (1) above. I've yet to find a load to shoots well in revolver and lever gun of the same caliber. Have experimented much with hand loading trying to find it, but have been unsuccessful to date. When I found the load that worked well in the lever gun, it became too brutal to shoot in the in the S&W 629.
3) 44 Mag ammo is just too danged expensive - today runs about $65 retail per box of 50, so unless you reload, it's too pricey to operate for a lot of shooters.

Two bits.....

[44 AMP]

First off, I don't believe a new M94 was just $105 in 1970. You will have to provide some verifiable evidence before I accept that.

I'm not certain it cost $105 in 1970, but I am certain that the 1974 Gun Digest listed it at $104.95, because I'm looking right at the book right now.

Same source (Gun Digest 28th Anniversary 1974 Deluxe Edition edited by John T. Amber published by Digest Books Library of Congress Catalog # 44-32588) lists the Marlin Glenfield 30A at $105 and the Marlin 336A at $119.95. The Win 94 listing is on page 335. Is that verified enough?

And, if $105 back then is $830 today, its still only 2/3 of the MSRP of $1279 for the new S&W 1854 carbine. Also if I read it right that $1279 is for their base model. SO other models are likely to be priced even higher.