Best 45acp powder , with specific requirements

[Nick_C_S]

I was thinking of switching to 185gr bullets with the Titegroup ??? You feel maybe the 200gr bullets are better ??

TG will run 185's nicely - assuming you mean plated or jacketed. 185-200 tomato-tomoto. Basically, the heavier the bullet, the more consistent and cleaner the burn. The trade-off being that the heavier the bullet, the steeper the pressure curve (for a given propellant). This is where your "temperamental" starts rearing its head. I'm a fan of the heavies myself. But in 45 ACP, I run everything from 185 to 230. TG is a great choice for lighter plated (or jacketed) bullets.

You need not stick to the powders I have.

There's lots of good ones. Other propellants I have good luck with 45 ACP:

Bullseye - mentioned already; but its graphite coating keeps it "residuey". Still a great choice for lead target bullets of all weights.

W231/HP-38 - A clean burner. Great for all weights; but best with lighter. Lead/plated/jacketed matters not. Great stuff. Will do everything except max velocity.

AA#2 - meters better than any other propellant - period. Same burn range as TG. I've had excellent luck with it in 45 ACP. Prefers lighter bullets. Won't get you max velocity.

AA#5 - meters almost as good as #2, and at least as good as TG. Better for heavies and/or more velocity.

Power Pistol - makes bullets go fast. Its easy ignition and clean burn makes it a good choice for hot rounds of all weights. Although, I tend to use it more with the lighter bullets (because of its easy ignition). Downside: its high-energy also makes it temperamental. Another reason why I tend to move from PP to HS-6 when I'm making heavies go fast.

Right now I see we have Universal and N340 being suggested . I was considering N320 . Anyone have opinions or use these powders for the purposes outlined above?

Not directly. I only have Vihtavuori experience with N310. It's super-duper fast and so I only use it for pure target 38 Special; and bunny fart 200 LSWC rounds for my target 1911 (12 Lb recoil spring). But I will tell you it's hard to go wrong with Vihtavuori powders. It's the Cadillac of propellants. Use the one with the right burn rate for the application, and some fine ammunition will be made. For the applications you mentioned, N320 would likely do most all except making those 230 JHPs go 900 f/s. To make those heavies go fast, N330 or N340 would likely be the better choice (I would tend to think N330 myself).

[TMD]

You think your .45 is dirty with the powders you have try running one suppressed. 100rds makes the gun look like it hasn't been cleaned for over 1000k rounds.

[Nathan]

Longshot or AA#5 have worked well for me, but you can't eat off the cases when done!

[pnac]

Folks over at THR forum are talking up BE-86 pretty heavy. You might want to check it out, about the speed as Unique.

[44 AMP]

So, maybe not much help in your quest.

Titegroup
WSF
HS-6
CFE-pistol
Auto comp
Longshot

Been reloading .45ACP since the early 70s, and have never used any of the powders on your list. used Bullseye and Unique, mostly, though I have tried the Hercules "dot" powders, REd, Green, and Blue. Blue Dot is only good in the ACP in certain loads, fired from longer revolver barrels. The others are "meh", meaning ok, but not great,

I'm not crazy about powder having to "burn clean" meaning little smoke, clean to me means no or few unburnt powder granules.

Years ago, I settled on Unique. I don't shoot plated bullets, I shoot cast (200SWC and 230RN) or jacketed. I run the ammo through various Govt models (1911A1s) SIG P220, Ruger Blackhawk revolver, Auto Ordnance M1927A! (semi auto tommygun) and a TC Contender. I also use .45ACP COMPONENTS to load for a 1917 Webley Mk VI.

For me, Unique does it all in .45ACP. Bullseye (or Win 231) is a little "cleaner" but tops out in velocity before Unique does when you hit the pressure wall.

And, no, it doesn't meter quite as well as a ball powder, but I'm also ok with that.

I don't think a powder that meets ALL your wants exists. If you do find one, by all means, SHARE!

[Mike Irwin]

"Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER."

Composition most certainly does play into residue left in the bore. Unique and Red Dot leave far more bore residue (not just unburned powder granules) than does a modern ball powder like AA 5 or WW 231.

[Dufus]

I will add that I have used just about all suitable powders in the 45 ACP, 9x19, 10mm, and so on.

The VV N340 is so far the best I have used with cast and jacketed bullets.

Very clean, good load density which eliminates ANY chance of double charge, good velocities, and what I find most amazing is that there is virtually no muzzle flash.

We have shot 9s in complete darkness and observed no flash at all.

So far, I think it is the cleanest handgun powder I have used since I started handloading in April, 1963.

I forgot to add that I bought two 4lb containers from Powder Valley last summer. The prices on the VV powders are a little higher than others, but I think worth it.

[mikld]

Whut Mike said 5. If you find a powder that meets your standards, please, let us know...

[Metal god]

What Mike said 5. If you find a powder that meets your standards, please, let us know...

Oh I will and if I take out the 900fps need there are already a few that do everything else .

"Powder burning cleanliness is not determined by the POWDER."

Although I understand the point I'm not sure I agree . Can't you disprove any one part of reloading by doing another part wrong . "uniforming flash holes will give you a more consistent ES/SD" Well no ES/SD can be effected by how you hold the rifle , variances in powder charge , inconsistent bullet hold etc . So you can uniform the flash holes but if everything else you do is half cocked it won't matter . I'm sure there are many examples of that kind of thing .

Cleanliness of the powder burn must first start with the powder make up it self . You then can move on to how to get it to burn the cleanest it can with the components you have . I fully agree with the above quote if the title of the thread and all we were talking about was cleanest pistol powder . We how ever are not . I not only narrowed it down to a specific cartridge . I narrowed it down to 75% of the time it will be a specific bullet . I know and others have shown , that is enough to give reasonable suggestions .

[Nick_C_S]

If I take out the 900fps need, there are already a few (powders) that do everything else.

Indeed.

TiteGroup will do it; although, you've got the heat/leading thing (as least, from my experience).

W231/HP-38 will do it. Nicely.

Bullseye will do it. Although, it runs a bit "residuey."

700X should do it. Although, I have no personal experience with it.

AA#2 will do it. Runs clean and can even be pumped up a little.

When viewed from a powder burn rate perspective, 45 ACP is a bit of a "wild card." Powder burn rates seem to "shift" slightly to the slower side. i.e., if you think of a powder's burn characteristics in - say - 9mm, in 45 ACP, it won't act that way. It'll act slower.

Case in point: Bullseye is well known to be fast and energetic. In most chamberings, it is a propellant to be worked up carefully. Certainly not the propellant for a cavalier or reckless approach. But in 45 ACP, it is clearly more forgiving (or course, no load work up should be done in a cavalier or reckless manner). In 45 ACP, 230 grain slugs are commonly pushed to 800 f/s and beyond with Bullseye. Such is the nature of 45 ACP for whatever reason (I'm guessing it has something to do with the large caliber, coupled with the low pressure).

Point is, in 45 ACP, propellants that are commonly thought of as "fast," actually behave surprisingly more to the "intermediate" side.

Subsequently, propellants that are typically thought of as "intermediate" are the slowest powders I will use for 45 ACP. Unique, Power Pistol, AA#5, and HS-6 are the slowest powders I will use. Move any farther down the burn rate scale (Blue Dot, 800X, N340, AA#7, so on), and you'll find yourself loading problematic ammo. I've tried AA#7 with 230 plated RN's. I got a ton of muzzle flash, unspent propellant, soot (and AA#7 is a clean burner), noise, and very little velocity increase. Just one example. Just my opinion.

[Dufus]

Subsequently, propellants that are typically thought of as "intermediate" are the slowest powders I will use for 45 ACP. Unique, Power Pistol, AA#5, and HS-6 are the slowest powders I will use. Move any farther down the burn rate scale (Blue Dot, 800X, N340, AA#7, so on), and you'll find yourself loading problematic ammo.

Going by Hodgdon's burn rates, VV N340 is faster than HS-6.

Going by Vihtavuori's chart, it is just a tad slower.

I don't disagree with your analysis of the burn rates in the 45ACP, I agree to a certain point.

I have used Blue Dot, Herco, HS-6, and of course VV N340 with excellent accuracy. But the N340 burns much cleaner in regard to unburned flakes being left in the barrel. Blue Dot & Herco leave lots flakes behind and we all know that Bullseye does as well even though it was the original powder and IIRC was developed for the 45 way back then.

I have not used any Accurate Powders as they have never been readily available in this area, and choose not to buy them online.

[edfardos]

Win231 to 800fps
Aa#5 to 900+ fps.. Some dirt.. Made of unobtanium these days.

[Kevin Rohrer]

There is no "best" of anything, only what people here use for whatever reason.

What I use based on prior use, general usability, and price is Unique.

5.9-6.2gr w/ a 225-230gr bullet works fine.

[Brutus]

I've tried a lot of different powders over the years but I keep going back to w231/HP38.
Does that MUF powder clean primer pockets as well, if so I'll buy a ton of it.

[Nick_C_S]

I don't disagree with your analysis of the burn rates in the 45ACP

Most people do

Or at least, in general. Maybe not the powder's burn rates themselves, but in terms of which propellant to use for a given task. Put simply, compared to many handloaders, I am "fast powder centric."

When I think of an ammunition purpose and need to do a load workup, the first question that crosses my mind is: "What is the fastest powder I can use to accomplish this purpose?" Doesn't necessarily mean that is the powder I will use; point is, that's where my head is at.

I don't fear pressure. I respect pressure; but I don't fear pressure. Pressure is good. Pressure makes ammunition run right. Pressure minimizes flash and maximizes consistency. Only excessive pressure is bad.

[Nick_C_S]

I've tried a lot of different powders over the years but I keep going back to W231/HP38.

Yeah. Me too. I could have penned the above quote.

Just received my 8# jug of W231 from Cabela's yesterday And that is on top of the 3 #'s I already had.

[Brutus]

Still use Bullseye for lead semi wadcutters but 231/Hp38 fills the bill for everthing else.

[mikld]

I understand you want what you want, but I don't understand the obsession with "clean burning powder" I see so much of in forums today (and I mean no offence). I used a lot of Unique in my reloads over quite a few years and can't say "dirty" powder has had any effect on my guns. I have fired nearly 300 rounds at one time through a 1911 with no stoppages due to "dirty" powder. I have use a good variety of powders in my .44 Magnums and none have shown any ill effects with upwards of 150 rounds per session. I have always been able to clean up after a session either at an indoor facility or outdoor range, and in the "wild" I always have water. I keep hand towels in my range case and if I feel something is "too sooty"I can just wipe it off. Just my observations...

[Nick_C_S]

Going by Hodgdon's burn rates, VV N340 is faster than HS-6.

Going by Vihtavuori's chart, it is just a tad slower.

And going by Accurate/Ramshot's burn rate chart (the one I prefer because it best respresents my personal experience - by far) N-340 has the same burn rate as HS-6.

I stand corrected. Thank you for the head's up.

I don't have much personal experience with V-V powders. I was just siting a "for instance" situation. Replace "N-340" with "N-350" in my post (#35), and it'll still apply.

[Nick_C_S]

I don't understand the obsession with "clean burning powder" I see so much of in forums today (and I mean no offense).

It means different things to different people.

And its importance means more to some people than others.

And it's quite subjective.

I like a clean burn because it tells me the propellant (and ammunition at large) is running right. But I have also loaded ammo that runs crummy/dirty and it yields excellent chronograph results - consistent and accurate. But I still don't like it. That would be the OCD in me .

An average trip to the range for me puts about 200 rounds through a gun. At that quantity, gun function is not going to be effected, no matter how much soot 200 rounds can deposit. Besides, I clean my guns after every range trip (more OCD). So for me, a dirty gun has nothing to do with it.

It's mostly about knowing that I'm building good ammo. Ammo that's charged to proper pressure and running as it should. Just the viewpoint of one loader.

[pctechdude]

Try ramshot silhouette...you can achieve 1000fps with it, it's clean, meters well, consistent and is low flash which is a bonus!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Marco Califo]

Silhouette will not get you 1000 fps with 230 grn according to Ramshot data.

[mikld]

Perhaps a better term than "clean" is appropriate. "Complete" or "efficient"? I understand using a power to it's optimum charge/pressure, but I don't think many of those asking about "clean" powders appreciate that fact...

[Hawg]

Maybe you need a pellet gun.

[Metal god]

It means different things to different people.

And its importance means more to some people than others.

And it's quite subjective.

I like a clean burn because it tells me the propellant (and ammunition at large) is running right. But I have also loaded ammo that runs crummy/dirty and it yields excellent chronograph results - consistent and accurate. But I still don't like it. That would be the OCD in me .

That's pretty much it in a nut shell . I just got back from the range and was trying cfe pistol in 9mm with 147gr platted bullets . Sooty scorched cases again . I tried CFE with 115gr bullets not to long ago and it was very sooty so I bought a bunch of 147gr bullets hoping it would make a difference . It actually did help some . I did not get quite a scorched cases this time . With Titegroup my cases come out almost as clean as they go in .

Perhaps a better term than "clean" is appropriate. "Complete" or "efficient"?

Yes maybe I should have chose my words better . I don't really have an issue with having a dirty gun . My issue is understanding my sooty cases tell me the comb is not best for the application which is subjective as well . I think my issue is the only powders I could find when I started was relatively slow powders for my application and it's bothered me from the start .

To be sure I've loaded some good accurate and at times pretty hot loads using those slower powders but really other then Titegroup I've not used powders faster then HS-6 although WSF on some charts is a bit faster but still not in the area of what I'd call a fast burning powder .

I think my other problem is I loaded Rifle for years before I started loading pistol . I get uber technical when loading My rifle loads . I want everything perfect and I'm starting to realize my OCD there is actually hurting my pistol loading because I'm never satisfied with the complete results even though I've loaded some quite suitable loads already .

So for now I'll pick up either one of or a couple of - 231/HP-38 , AA#2 , N-320 and maybe some WST . and maybe a pellet gun haha

What do you all think about those choices . Don't forget I've gave up on the 900+fps yard stick

FWIW I had great results at the rifle range today