.223 - Max bullet weight for 1/9 twist, and "best" powder?

precision_shooter · July 26, 2014, 09:00 PM

Just bought a Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle in .223.

What is the max bullet weight that will reliably stabilize with a 1/9 twist barrel?
What is a good powder for multiple bullet weights?

Thanks!

jwrowland77 · July 26, 2014, 09:01 PM

This:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

Plus this:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...ngths/lengths#

I like H335 and IMR 4895, also H4895.

rg1 · July 26, 2014, 11:50 PM

Most reports I've seen says 68/69 grain bullets in a 1/9 twist. Some report that their rifles do ok with 75/77's but some don't. Powders, whatever you can find that's recommended for heavier match type bullets in the manuals.

Jim243 · July 27, 2014, 01:51 AM

I have used 75 grain Hornady A-Max, 55 grain Hornady V-Max, & 60 grain Hornady V-Max in my MVP-Flex which is a 5.56 1:9 twist rifle. All with good results. As to powder they were all loaded with Hodgdon CFE-223.

I am also using IMR 8208 XBR but have not had a chance to try those out yet.

Jim

Marco Califo · July 27, 2014, 02:00 PM

The bullet stability calculator linked above predicts 75 gr Hornady HPBT will stabilize in a 9" twist barrel and I can confirm that out to 400 yards on steel plates. The Hornady 75 GR AMAX is a different bullet, different model #, longer in length.
WC844, which is sold as cannister H335, is a fantastic all around powder for 223. It is what is used in LC 5.56 ammo our boys in uniform use. It is a great deal at $12 a pound when you can get it.

jwrowland77 · July 27, 2014, 02:05 PM

The jbm calculators are great. I shoot a 180gr SMK out of my 1:12 twist .308. Where most folks say it won't stabilize. That's why I love the jbm site

Jimro · July 27, 2014, 03:42 PM

75gr should stabilize quite well with the Mossberg MVP barrel length.

CFE223 would be a good powder to use, along with the traditional Varget, IMR4064 and PowerPro 2000-MR.

Jimro

MR_X · July 27, 2014, 05:49 PM

I have shot everything from 40 to 75gr out f my 16" 1/9 barrel with good accuracy.

precision_shooter · July 27, 2014, 06:43 PM

I should have mentioned that I already load .308 with Varget, but I am able to find 4064 and not much else. Is it worth trying to find another powder just to load .223, over sticking with Varget and only having 1 powder for multiple calibers?

Marco Califo · July 27, 2014, 07:22 PM

Many of the best 308 powders are also very good in 223 and vice versa. Varget is one. Here are some others:

H335 / WC844, 4895, BL-C(2) / WC846, 4064, AA2460, AA2520

I bought an 8 lb jug of WC844 and am loading both 223 and 308 with it. meters fine, accuarate, cost effective. I wish I had bought several jugs. AA2230-C (AA2460 equivalent) was another 8 lbs of perfect dual caliber powder, wish I had more.

Some of those powders I listed are more appropriate with heavier bullets in each caliber. If I had to pick only one powder it would be H335 / WC844.

Rimfire5 · July 28, 2014, 08:19 AM

My CZ 527 .223 has a 1:9 twist and has shot 69 grain Sierra # 1380 SMK bullets with H4895 powder pretty well with a best load average of 0.378 with 23.5 grains of powder at 2.260 OAL. That was at 2850 fps.
It did almost as well (0.436) with the same powder load at 2.290.
For 6 different loads it averaged 0.499 but one of them was 0.757.
Faster loads only opened up the groups.

I even tried a 75 grain Hornady HPBT @ 2650 fps and averaged 0.672 but the accuracy was going away above 69 grains.

If you're trying to find your rifle's sweet spot instead of trying to find the heaviest bullet that will stabilize don't overlook the lighter weight bullets.

My CZ really likes 52 SMKs, For a total of 74 loads, 31 loads average under 0.4 inches with a best load of 0.201 at 2900 fps.
I just started to shoot 53 grain SMKs (only 6 loads so far) but 5 are under 0.4 inches with a best load of 0.227 at 3150 fps.
It also shoots 40 grain Nosler Ballistic tips (27 total loads) very well with either H335 or N133 powder with 16 loads under 0.4 inches and a best load that averaged 0.248 at 3500 fps.

The lighter bullets will take a head off a prairie dog very nicely. The 40 grain Nosler BTs are like grenades when they hit a prairie dog.

5R milspec · July 28, 2014, 02:08 PM

I've been doing good with 69, 70, 75, and 77 grain bullets. The best two are the 69/70, but the others will group just fine for a hunting load. The two best has always been loaded with 8208xbr, the others loaded with 4064. I always put them into the lands

emcon5 · July 28, 2014, 02:20 PM

75 Amax and Varget is an excellent starting point.

603Country · July 28, 2014, 04:55 PM

My Ruger Hawkeye is a 1 in 9 twist. Like someone else said, the 40 gr Nosler BT shoots great and will put a coyote DOWN. And today I've been loading and shooting that new Nosler 64 gr Bonded Solid Base. I couldn't make it shoot decent with AA2230, so I tried Varget. Nope, no good groups. Then I went to H335 and couldn't get a decent group till I got to 25.1 gr of H335 and the bullets all slid into about half an inch. I'll measure it tomorrow and load up some more and hope for a repeat.

Point to be made is that there probably isn't a 'best powder', but more a best powder for your rifle and bullet.

Gary L. Griffiths · July 29, 2014, 09:53 PM

As far as max bullet weight, there's a considerable difference in different barrels of the same twist. You'll probably need to experiment some.

I usually load with Varget, but am now using Alliant's AR-Comp. Just as stable as Varget, and gives a little more velocity with about a grain less than Varget, meaning you don't have to shoehorn in a bullet into a case full of powder.

July 26, 2014, 09:00 PM	#1
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	.223 - Max bullet weight for 1/9 twist, and "best" powder? Just bought a Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle in .223. What is the max bullet weight that will reliably stabilize with a 1/9 twist barrel? What is a good powder for multiple bullet weights? Thanks! __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

July 27, 2014, 01:51 AM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I have used 75 grain Hornady A-Max, 55 grain Hornady V-Max, & 60 grain Hornady V-Max in my MVP-Flex which is a 5.56 1:9 twist rifle. All with good results. As to powder they were all loaded with Hodgdon CFE-223. I am also using IMR 8208 XBR but have not had a chance to try those out yet. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

July 27, 2014, 02:00 PM	#5
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,602	The bullet stability calculator linked above predicts 75 gr Hornady HPBT will stabilize in a 9" twist barrel and I can confirm that out to 400 yards on steel plates. The Hornady 75 GR AMAX is a different bullet, different model #, longer in length. WC844, which is sold as cannister H335, is a fantastic all around powder for 223. It is what is used in LC 5.56 ammo our boys in uniform use. It is a great deal at $12 a pound when you can get it. __________________ ............

July 27, 2014, 03:42 PM	#7
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	75gr should stabilize quite well with the Mossberg MVP barrel length. CFE223 would be a good powder to use, along with the traditional Varget, IMR4064 and PowerPro 2000-MR. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

July 27, 2014, 06:43 PM	#9
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	I should have mentioned that I already load .308 with Varget, but I am able to find 4064 and not much else. Is it worth trying to find another powder just to load .223, over sticking with Varget and only having 1 powder for multiple calibers? __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

July 26, 2014, 09:01 PM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	This: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi Plus this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...ngths/lengths# I like H335 and IMR 4895, also H4895.

July 26, 2014, 11:50 PM	#3
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	Most reports I've seen says 68/69 grain bullets in a 1/9 twist. Some report that their rifles do ok with 75/77's but some don't. Powders, whatever you can find that's recommended for heavier match type bullets in the manuals.

July 27, 2014, 02:05 PM	#6
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	The jbm calculators are great. I shoot a 180gr SMK out of my 1:12 twist .308. Where most folks say it won't stabilize. That's why I love the jbm site

July 27, 2014, 05:49 PM	#8
MR_X Member Join Date: April 23, 2014 Posts: 22	I have shot everything from 40 to 75gr out f my 16" 1/9 barrel with good accuracy.

July 27, 2014, 07:22 PM	#10
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,602	Many of the best 308 powders are also very good in 223 and vice versa. Varget is one. Here are some others: H335 / WC844, 4895, BL-C(2) / WC846, 4064, AA2460, AA2520 I bought an 8 lb jug of WC844 and am loading both 223 and 308 with it. meters fine, accuarate, cost effective. I wish I had bought several jugs. AA2230-C (AA2460 equivalent) was another 8 lbs of perfect dual caliber powder, wish I had more. Some of those powders I listed are more appropriate with heavier bullets in each caliber. If I had to pick only one powder it would be H335 / WC844. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; July 27, 2014 at 07:28 PM.

July 28, 2014, 08:19 AM	#11
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	My CZ 527 .223 has a 1:9 twist and has shot 69 grain Sierra # 1380 SMK bullets with H4895 powder pretty well with a best load average of 0.378 with 23.5 grains of powder at 2.260 OAL. That was at 2850 fps. It did almost as well (0.436) with the same powder load at 2.290. For 6 different loads it averaged 0.499 but one of them was 0.757. Faster loads only opened up the groups. I even tried a 75 grain Hornady HPBT @ 2650 fps and averaged 0.672 but the accuracy was going away above 69 grains. If you're trying to find your rifle's sweet spot instead of trying to find the heaviest bullet that will stabilize don't overlook the lighter weight bullets. My CZ really likes 52 SMKs, For a total of 74 loads, 31 loads average under 0.4 inches with a best load of 0.201 at 2900 fps. I just started to shoot 53 grain SMKs (only 6 loads so far) but 5 are under 0.4 inches with a best load of 0.227 at 3150 fps. It also shoots 40 grain Nosler Ballistic tips (27 total loads) very well with either H335 or N133 powder with 16 loads under 0.4 inches and a best load that averaged 0.248 at 3500 fps. The lighter bullets will take a head off a prairie dog very nicely. The 40 grain Nosler BTs are like grenades when they hit a prairie dog.

July 28, 2014, 02:08 PM	#12
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	I've been doing good with 69, 70, 75, and 77 grain bullets. The best two are the 69/70, but the others will group just fine for a hunting load. The two best has always been loaded with 8208xbr, the others loaded with 4064. I always put them into the lands __________________ life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.

July 28, 2014, 02:20 PM	#13
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	75 Amax and Varget is an excellent starting point.

July 28, 2014, 04:55 PM	#14
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	My Ruger Hawkeye is a 1 in 9 twist. Like someone else said, the 40 gr Nosler BT shoots great and will put a coyote DOWN. And today I've been loading and shooting that new Nosler 64 gr Bonded Solid Base. I couldn't make it shoot decent with AA2230, so I tried Varget. Nope, no good groups. Then I went to H335 and couldn't get a decent group till I got to 25.1 gr of H335 and the bullets all slid into about half an inch. I'll measure it tomorrow and load up some more and hope for a repeat. Point to be made is that there probably isn't a 'best powder', but more a best powder for your rifle and bullet.

July 29, 2014, 09:53 PM	#15
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,466	As far as max bullet weight, there's a considerable difference in different barrels of the same twist. You'll probably need to experiment some. I usually load with Varget, but am now using Alliant's AR-Comp. Just as stable as Varget, and gives a little more velocity with about a grain less than Varget, meaning you don't have to shoehorn in a bullet into a case full of powder. __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)