COW accuracy???

std7mag · July 13, 2014, 12:05 PM

So this strange thought occurred to me....

When using a "pistol" powder, and the Cream of Wheat method of fire forming brass, can you actually do some target shooting with these rounds???

Not saying work up target loads this way, just curious about getting some practice in at the same time.

Slamfire · July 13, 2014, 12:41 PM

Why use pistol powders and "cream of wheat" when you can use AA5744 in large blackpowder cases and not bother with "Cream of Wheat"?

**44 AMP** · July 14, 2014, 10:05 AM

Been quite a few years since I have done it, but back when I did, case forming loads were "hit close to the target somewhere" was all I was after. I was using cast bullets (actually the cheapest crap castings), as after all, I was looking to form cases, not really hit anything.

As I recall, most did hit the target, some even close to the center, but it was nothing you could count on. No doubt due to the bullets used and loading practice. The filler, in itself didn't seem to make a difference.

your experience might be different.

HiBC · July 18, 2014, 06:23 AM

I have used the Cream of Wheat method to form cases.
I did my 35 Whelens this way,and ,before Hornady .405Win brass,necked up 30-40 Krag brass to straight wall 40-70 Sharps,40-60 Maynard.

It worked very well,

BUT I USED NO BULLET WHATSOEVER!

I recommend against using a bullet,you may very well blow something up.

steve4102 · July 18, 2014, 06:56 AM

When I fireform for my 6.5 Grendel and Ackleys, I use Red Dot COW and tissue paper, No bullet.

Longshot4 · August 3, 2014, 09:02 AM

When I fire form from 22 Hornet To K Hornet from factory loads I just fire the rounds in the chamber. When I am able to find new Hornet brass I load for low pressure to form the cases. Although some times cases won't be fully formed. Then I load a second time to get full formed cases. That works for me. In my case that is all that is required. Why would you buffer at all? We have a lot more powder selection today compared to 40 Yrs ago.

HiBC · August 3, 2014, 03:46 PM

Longshot,in your case,you are not changing bore diameter.I agree with you,just shoot a fireform load with no buffer.I do that with Ackley Improved.Pressure does the forming.It does not work so well to neck up to a larger bore.

Forming dies to neck up are expensive.I have used conventional dies to neck up with the expander ball.My results were mediocre.All the stretch will occur at the weak side of the neck.Neck wall variation is bad,and the spindle is not rigid enough to maintain concentricity.

I use Bullseye and Cream of Wheat,no bullet.A ballpark estimate of charge is around 10 % of what a normal charge for cartridge is.Example,to blow 30-06 necks out to 35 Whelen,as approx. 50 gr of powder might be a typical 30-06 load,I'd start at 5 gr Bullseye.I would not exceed maybe 7 gr.

Before we had .405 Win Hornady brass,I made a steel chamber insert for a 12 ga single shot.I chambered it 40-70 Sharps.With that setup,I easily blew virgin 30-40 and .303 Brir brass out to straight wall cylindrical brass.
The application was 40-50 Sharps,40-60 Maynard,and ,albeit short,40-70 Sharps.

In all cases,I got excellent concentricity and uniform neck wall thickness.

The COW acts as a semi-fluid mass being blown through the shoulder/neck area and mechanically forms the brass to conform to the chamber.Sure,pressure is involved,also...but the COW is not just a buffer,it is the forming tool.

July 13, 2014, 12:05 PM	#1
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	COW accuracy??? So this strange thought occurred to me.... When using a "pistol" powder, and the Cream of Wheat method of fire forming brass, can you actually do some target shooting with these rounds??? Not saying work up target loads this way, just curious about getting some practice in at the same time.

July 13, 2014, 12:41 PM	#2
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Why use pistol powders and "cream of wheat" when you can use AA5744 in large blackpowder cases and not bother with "Cream of Wheat"? __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

July 14, 2014, 10:05 AM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,862	Been quite a few years since I have done it, but back when I did, case forming loads were "hit close to the target somewhere" was all I was after. I was using cast bullets (actually the cheapest crap castings), as after all, I was looking to form cases, not really hit anything. As I recall, most did hit the target, some even close to the center, but it was nothing you could count on. No doubt due to the bullets used and loading practice. The filler, in itself didn't seem to make a difference. your experience might be different. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 3, 2014, 03:46 PM	#7
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	Longshot,in your case,you are not changing bore diameter.I agree with you,just shoot a fireform load with no buffer.I do that with Ackley Improved.Pressure does the forming.It does not work so well to neck up to a larger bore. Forming dies to neck up are expensive.I have used conventional dies to neck up with the expander ball.My results were mediocre.All the stretch will occur at the weak side of the neck.Neck wall variation is bad,and the spindle is not rigid enough to maintain concentricity. I use Bullseye and Cream of Wheat,no bullet.A ballpark estimate of charge is around 10 % of what a normal charge for cartridge is.Example,to blow 30-06 necks out to 35 Whelen,as approx. 50 gr of powder might be a typical 30-06 load,I'd start at 5 gr Bullseye.I would not exceed maybe 7 gr. Before we had .405 Win Hornady brass,I made a steel chamber insert for a 12 ga single shot.I chambered it 40-70 Sharps.With that setup,I easily blew virgin 30-40 and .303 Brir brass out to straight wall cylindrical brass. The application was 40-50 Sharps,40-60 Maynard,and ,albeit short,40-70 Sharps. In all cases,I got excellent concentricity and uniform neck wall thickness. The COW acts as a semi-fluid mass being blown through the shoulder/neck area and mechanically forms the brass to conform to the chamber.Sure,pressure is involved,also...but the COW is not just a buffer,it is the forming tool. Last edited by HiBC; August 3, 2014 at 03:56 PM.

July 18, 2014, 06:23 AM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	I have used the Cream of Wheat method to form cases. I did my 35 Whelens this way,and ,before Hornady .405Win brass,necked up 30-40 Krag brass to straight wall 40-70 Sharps,40-60 Maynard. It worked very well, BUT I USED NO BULLET WHATSOEVER! I recommend against using a bullet,you may very well blow something up.

July 18, 2014, 06:56 AM	#5
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	When I fireform for my 6.5 Grendel and Ackleys, I use Red Dot COW and tissue paper, No bullet.

August 3, 2014, 09:02 AM	#6
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	When I fire form from 22 Hornet To K Hornet from factory loads I just fire the rounds in the chamber. When I am able to find new Hornet brass I load for low pressure to form the cases. Although some times cases won't be fully formed. Then I load a second time to get full formed cases. That works for me. In my case that is all that is required. Why would you buffer at all? We have a lot more powder selection today compared to 40 Yrs ago.