How Accurate Does a Powder Measure Have to Be? - Page 2

cdoc42 · April 20, 2020, 09:50 PM

Sevens said "Technique has a lot to do with the consistency of any powder measure. "

I completely agree with that and the described technique of continuing a serieswithout interruption. Yesterday I loaded 30 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350 and I checked every charge for the hell of it on my RCBS digital scale. I pulled 2 off line because I felt the powder granules had bridged or cut since the drop was not as smooth as the others. These weighed 40.2gr; the other 28 weighed 40.1gr.

buck460XVR · April 21, 2020, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevens

Technique has a lot to do with the consistency of any powder measure. If you are moving a tray of 25 or 50 pieces under the measure spout and repeatedly dumping charges from start to finish, you will almost surely have more consistency across 50 pieces than you will if you dispense one charge, dump it in to a pan, put it on the scale, remove and dump it, then dispense another charge from the measure and weigh that one.

^^^I too have to wholeheartedly agree with this. What folks need to remember tho, is a powder measure/thrower measures by volume, not by weight. You adjust it to throw a volume close to the weight you want. It is basically a mechanical dipper. Just like using dippers, one need to be consistent with how they allow the dipper to be filled. Using a powder measure off press generally is more "accurate"(yeah, since I'm not a grammar Nazi, I'll use accurate) that using one attached to a press where there is more random movement. I always use the "double knock" technique where I use enough pressure on the handle to "tap" on the downstroke and the upstroke. This seems to make the powder settle more evenly in the measuring cup and the hopper, especially with larger flake and bulky powders. For general shooting and plinking, the average reputable brand powder dispenser/measure is good enough. For only the most accurate rounds does one really need to weigh each charge. Just weigh every 10-20 drops to make sure the powder is still settling evenly and go from there. Some powders shoot more accurately when measured by volume than by weight. FME, Unique is one of these.

Swifty Morgan · April 21, 2020, 02:32 PM

Regarding digital scales, I have a Lyman. I noticed it was moving around for no reason. I would leave it sitting, and suddenly a couple of tenths of a grain would appear or disappear.

I was using a fresh 9-volt battery, figuring batteries give the most CONSISTENT (not accurate) voltage, but I switched to AC, and oddly, I have not had problems since.

cdoc42 · April 21, 2020, 06:24 PM

I have a surge protector into which I plug my RCBS digital scale.

"SL Weber Power Master" Surge/Noise protector Model PM IN
On board is a window: Green=OK Black= Replace

I also have a surge protector connected to my circuit breaker box. I'm in my home 21 years and I have 22 standard 65 watt floodlight on one (main) floor in my home and I have changed only 3 bulbs during that time. That doesn't count the same bulbs on my lower and bedroom floors, nor the outdoors lamps.

Surge protection may be the answer.

Swifty Morgan · April 22, 2020, 10:00 AM

My power company sent someone out last year and installed a whole-house surge protector. I thought that was nice of them.

9MMand223only · April 22, 2020, 07:08 PM

Hello. the answer is right here:

http://www.natoreloading.com/mixed/

The answer is, with pistol, its not that important. What is by far, most important in pistol is the quality of your barrel.

That is proven in this test here:
http://www.natoreloading.com/czst/

XDm OSP already has "good" barrel. But moving to a "real good barrel" is 2x as accurate. And that load was junk. Even with junk load, the "real good barrel" shot lights out.

SHR970 · April 22, 2020, 08:00 PM

Are you going for Bench Rest Accuracy levels or just blasting ammo? If A) then each charge needs to be checked against a real accurate (IE not Harbor Freight) scale. If B) I've loaded thousands of rounds using scoops. As long as B isn't at the very top you are GTG> That said I have a pet load for 357 that features plated bullets, AA#9 powder, certian brass & primers and are loaded with a custom scoop. This general recipe is RBH accurate to a 2 liter bottle @ 200 yards 5 out of 6 with my gun.

So what are you REALLY after?

Swifty Morgan · April 24, 2020, 09:25 PM

I want the gun to be able to hold 1" at 7 yards. On a good day, I can put most shots in 1.5" without a rest, so I want the gun to shhoot better than I do.

Bart B. · April 25, 2020, 10:03 AM

Test the firearm in a return to battery machine rest. Then your variables won't add to those of firearm and ammunition. I've seen 50 yard test groups shot from rebuilt M1911 45 ACP shooting Remington 185 gr. wadcutter ammo that all are under 1.5 inch. Pistol was held by a Broadway machine rest that's similar to the Ransom rest

Regarding (semiautomatic) pistol accuracy, I think the most important part is getting the barrel perfectly aligned with the sights axis after chambering each round.

langenc · April 25, 2020, 05:38 PM

The range you posted looks good.

I just used my thrower for about 150 cartridges of 223 .m I wanted 22 gr and every time I checked thrown weight it was either 22, 22.1 or 21.9 gr. That was good to go for me.
If Im loading hunting rounds, usually 50 or less, I weigh each and get it right on my desired weight.

Swifty Morgan · April 25, 2020, 05:43 PM

I'm going to get some graphite powder to run through it. I don't know if there is any point, given the graphite in the gunpowder.

cdoc42 · April 26, 2020, 05:11 PM

I'm sure everyone has eventually noticed different powders have different densities and sizes, esp the rod-type with the "short-cut" being a smaller version. I have a Bruno powder measure which I believe to be very well made, but accuracy in it as well as those I have from Redding and RCBS can be a challenge with the rod-type powders.

I noticed when trickling some heavier density powders may take 1-2 granules to get to 0.1gr while others take 2-4 times that amount. With bridging and cutting of the granules, variation can occur.

I was loading 25-06 this morning with RE22 which brought this to my attention, and I refelcted on how different it was from H4350 when I loaded my Creedmoor. I had one of those really rare occasions with H4350- it dropped 40.1 grains in 30 consecutive throws, much to my amazement.

Contrast that with 51.0 grains of RE22. I loaded only 37 rounds but I weighed every one because the first ten gave me a range of 50.7 to 51.4 grains. 60% were 51.0-51.2;
20% each were over 50.2 and under 51.0. I had 2 cuts during those 10; a 51.4 and 51.1. This is in a room with no drafts of significance.

April 21, 2020, 02:32 PM	#28
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	Regarding digital scales, I have a Lyman. I noticed it was moving around for no reason. I would leave it sitting, and suddenly a couple of tenths of a grain would appear or disappear. I was using a fresh 9-volt battery, figuring batteries give the most CONSISTENT (not accurate) voltage, but I switched to AC, and oddly, I have not had problems since. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

April 22, 2020, 10:00 AM	#30
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	My power company sent someone out last year and installed a whole-house surge protector. I thought that was nice of them. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

April 24, 2020, 09:25 PM	#33
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	I want the gun to be able to hold 1" at 7 yards. On a good day, I can put most shots in 1.5" without a rest, so I want the gun to shhoot better than I do. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

April 25, 2020, 10:03 AM	#34
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Test the firearm in a return to battery machine rest. Then your variables won't add to those of firearm and ammunition. I've seen 50 yard test groups shot from rebuilt M1911 45 ACP shooting Remington 185 gr. wadcutter ammo that all are under 1.5 inch. Pistol was held by a Broadway machine rest that's similar to the Ransom rest Regarding (semiautomatic) pistol accuracy, I think the most important part is getting the barrel perfectly aligned with the sights axis after chambering each round. Last edited by Bart B.; April 25, 2020 at 10:40 AM.

April 25, 2020, 05:43 PM	#36
Swifty Morgan Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2018 Location: FL Posts: 467	I'm going to get some graphite powder to run through it. I don't know if there is any point, given the graphite in the gunpowder. __________________ People who think their guns shoot better than they do must not be shooting much rimfire.

April 20, 2020, 09:50 PM	#26
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,690	Sevens said "Technique has a lot to do with the consistency of any powder measure. " I completely agree with that and the described technique of continuing a serieswithout interruption. Yesterday I loaded 30 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor with H4350 and I checked every charge for the hell of it on my RCBS digital scale. I pulled 2 off line because I felt the powder granules had bridged or cut since the drop was not as smooth as the others. These weighed 40.2gr; the other 28 weighed 40.1gr.

April 21, 2020, 06:24 PM	#29
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,690	I have a surge protector into which I plug my RCBS digital scale. "SL Weber Power Master" Surge/Noise protector Model PM IN On board is a window: Green=OK Black= Replace I also have a surge protector connected to my circuit breaker box. I'm in my home 21 years and I have 22 standard 65 watt floodlight on one (main) floor in my home and I have changed only 3 bulbs during that time. That doesn't count the same bulbs on my lower and bedroom floors, nor the outdoors lamps. Surge protection may be the answer.

April 22, 2020, 07:08 PM	#31
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	Hello. the answer is right here: http://www.natoreloading.com/mixed/ The answer is, with pistol, its not that important. What is by far, most important in pistol is the quality of your barrel. That is proven in this test here: http://www.natoreloading.com/czst/ XDm OSP already has "good" barrel. But moving to a "real good barrel" is 2x as accurate. And that load was junk. Even with junk load, the "real good barrel" shot lights out.

April 22, 2020, 08:00 PM	#32
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Are you going for Bench Rest Accuracy levels or just blasting ammo? If A) then each charge needs to be checked against a real accurate (IE not Harbor Freight) scale. If B) I've loaded thousands of rounds using scoops. As long as B isn't at the very top you are GTG> That said I have a pet load for 357 that features plated bullets, AA#9 powder, certian brass & primers and are loaded with a custom scoop. This general recipe is RBH accurate to a 2 liter bottle @ 200 yards 5 out of 6 with my gun. So what are you REALLY after?

April 25, 2020, 05:38 PM	#35
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	The range you posted looks good. I just used my thrower for about 150 cartridges of 223 .m I wanted 22 gr and every time I checked thrown weight it was either 22, 22.1 or 21.9 gr. That was good to go for me. If Im loading hunting rounds, usually 50 or less, I weigh each and get it right on my desired weight.

April 26, 2020, 05:11 PM	#37
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,690	I'm sure everyone has eventually noticed different powders have different densities and sizes, esp the rod-type with the "short-cut" being a smaller version. I have a Bruno powder measure which I believe to be very well made, but accuracy in it as well as those I have from Redding and RCBS can be a challenge with the rod-type powders. I noticed when trickling some heavier density powders may take 1-2 granules to get to 0.1gr while others take 2-4 times that amount. With bridging and cutting of the granules, variation can occur. I was loading 25-06 this morning with RE22 which brought this to my attention, and I refelcted on how different it was from H4350 when I loaded my Creedmoor. I had one of those really rare occasions with H4350- it dropped 40.1 grains in 30 consecutive throws, much to my amazement. Contrast that with 51.0 grains of RE22. I loaded only 37 rounds but I weighed every one because the first ten gave me a range of 50.7 to 51.4 grains. 60% were 51.0-51.2; 20% each were over 50.2 and under 51.0. I had 2 cuts during those 10; a 51.4 and 51.1. This is in a room with no drafts of significance.