Buying a pistol, behind enemy lines

[Adizzle19]

I will preface this post with: I live in Massachusetts. For those out of the loop, we still have the awb and a list that governs what pistols a dealer can sell you.

Now to the good stuff.

I have a small chunk of change saved and I want to buy a new pistol. I have a SW shield 9mm already, so I'm looking for something bigger, mainly used for HD, winter carry, and good ol' range fun killing cans and fruit. I'm flexible on caliber as long as it's pretty easy to find and relatively cheap (9,40,45). I would like for there to either be pre ban mags available, or for 10 rounders to be the standard capacity magazines. I have 310$ saved up currently, but am willing to spend up to 400....ok, 425 out the door.

So far I have considered:
-some variety of 3rd gen SW, for capacity...if someone could give me the crash course on these, I would appreciate it. I can't seem to crack the code of the number system.
-ruger sr45, at the upper end of the budget but a full size 45 bought new would be cool and fit the bill
-SW SD9/40ve, well within budget and easy to get in my neighbourhood
-ruger p series pistol, again within budget, but I don't know the differences between models.

To everyone who may contribute, thanks!

[kilimanjaro]

If 10 rounds is the legal limit, then the advantages of smaller calibers in large magazines so as to offset quality with quantity are absent.

I would choose the 45acp, and save up the money to do it. Budget is budget, but a 45 is a 45, and worth it when push comes to shove.

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to TFL, Adizzle19!

Unless I am mistaken, TFL member carguychris has cracked the code. Here is a good post of his that helps sort out the SuperSecret Smith Code. If I remember correctly, he has explained the code in several different posts scattered through the handgun forums (General and Semi-autos).

[lamarw]

With your money limit, you might want to check out the SCCY either CPX-1 (has a safety) or a CPX-2 which does not have a safety but the same long double action trigger mechanism. They currently only produce 9mm's.

It is an American made with a life-time on the pistol warranty no matter how many owners. The warranty is "no question asked" and shipping paid to and from the factory in Daytona Beach, FL for a claim. They have the best Customer Support I have ever had the pleasure dealing with for any merchandise.

The magazine capacity is 10 rounds and you can have an 11th round in the chamber.

Not saying it is your cup of tea, but it is worth checking out. Oh, and the good part is the MSRP is $319.00, but it can be had new in the box for less than $275.00 if you shop around. I have heard of buyers paying less than $250.00.

I like mine, and I own a few Sigs and Berettas. If you like it, just make sure you buy the Gen. 2 pistol and not a Gen. 1 used pistol.

Another great pistol just a little over your price range in the Sig P250, but it may have too high of a magazine capacity for your State.

[NJgunowner]

In the $400 ish range... maybe CZ or ruger lineup. The Canik clones have been getting good reviews. Also the RIA 1911's are solid firearms.

[Aguila Blanca]

Not all 1911s can be purchased in Massachusetts. I know that Kahr/Auto-Ordnance has special models for Massachusetts compliance.

[Adizzle19]

Thanks for the feedback so far. The problem is that many pistols cannot be sold in ma from a dealer to the average joe, were just not safe enough to buy new glocks. Used glocks are relatively easy to find but carry an inflated price. That's why I have suggested the list I did.

Part of my problem I've realized (even since posting this thread) is that I don't have a lot of time to go to a real gun store between work and other stuff. The nearest one is 30 minutes away!! And pretty small to boot. How far do you guys have to travel to get to a shop?

[salvadore]

The 1911-A1 from AO is a little more than your budget, however the peeps that have every POS hangin off of their shooters would be the only ones that sneer. I have 3 1911s and wouldn't mind one.

[SpareMag]

A FUN and potent cartridge is the Tokarev 7.62x25 which can be exploited in a CZ52, Zastava and a few others. This is NOT a standard choice, but I really enjoy my CZ52.

[NJgunowner]

to be honest I have the same problem in NJ. They don't have an approved list, but finding good stores with stock is hard and the prices are high. I buy online and have a FFL that isn't too expensive do the transfer.

[kilimanjaro]

Lucky me, or woe is me, I live in the Wild West where four good gun shops are within 8 miles of the front door.

Sounds like you've got time to pad your bankroll, take your time.

To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, 'A 40 caliber is just a cartridge, but a 45 is a gun.'

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

Get yourself an Auto-Ordnance Model 1911A1 PKZMA (the Mass-legal version).

[Aguila Blanca]

How far do you guys have to travel to get to a shop?

There is a small gunshop 3 miles from my house -- but they deal mostly in collectible firearms, and (to be charitable) they aren't giving anything away.

The shop I buy from is 45 minutes from home. The bigger shop I've bought from a couple of times is an hour from home.

[James K]

The problem with a .45 is that, the gun make/model aside, it has a heavy recoil and it takes a bit of practice to become proficient in its use. For home defense, the noise, flash and recoil may result in losing control of the gun, not a good situation. If 9mm or something like a .38 revolver is not wanted, the .40 caliber can provide an intermediate caliber, though the recoil of the .40 is still right sharp.

Jim

[MarkGlazer]

Canik. It meets your budget. I have a Stingray, a clone of the CZ mini.
You won't regret the purchase.


Browse at your own risk: http://www.centerfiresystems.com/

[DA/SA Fan]

10 rounds of .45 and only a little over budget. An EAA Witness .45 would be my choice. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...1+45ACP+4.5%22

[salvadore]

The problem with a .45 is that, the gun make/model aside, it has a heavy recoil and it takes a bit of practice to become proficient in its use. For home defense, the noise, flash and recoil may result in losing control of the gun, not a good situation. If 9mm or something like a .38 revolver is not wanted, the .40 caliber can provide an intermediate caliber, though the recoil of the .40 is still right sharp.

Jim

What? When did the 1911 become a heavy recoiler, and it takes a bit of practice to become proficient with any shooter. Losing control of the gun? A .357 with full house 125gr bullets shot in a room might make you lose control of your hearing and eyesight, but shooting a subsonic .45acp In a room will not cause nearly as much trauma to your senses I won't bore anyone with my opinion of the 40S&W. Finally if James K was hinting that the OP might be better off with a .38spec., I agree whole heartedly, but since he mentioned a bigger gun I'd still recommend the AO1911. Man that was a longish post for me.

Not meant to be contentious James.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Adizzle19

-some variety of 3rd gen SW, for capacity...if someone could give me the crash course on these, I would appreciate it. I can't seem to crack the code of the number system.

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

Unless I am mistaken, TFL member carguychris has cracked the code. Here is a good post of his that helps sort out the SuperSecret Smith Code.

Crack the code... I know what you mean. Here's a link to my most comprehensive post re: S&W pistol model numbers.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478540

Errata: One minor item in this post is not correct; the 2nd-gen pistols introduced different rear sights- a fixed drift-adjustable blade, and a fully screw-adjustable unit with large protective "ears" or "wings". Many 3rd-gens can be found with these sights, although the latter was only offered on full-size models. (FWIW the 1st-gen rear sight had a very narrow blade that was screw-adjustable for windage only, and was criticized for its fragility and its tendency to snag on cover garments.)

Re: which one to get...

The full-size double-stack 59-series 9mm's are good pistols, and both 10rd and pre-ban 14/15rd mags are available, but these guns quite large if you're limited to 10. The compact double-stack 69-series can utilize 59-series mags in addition to pre-ban 12rd mags, and their size is a bit more reasonable.

The full-size double-stack 40-series only offers one more round in pre-ban form- 11 vs. 10. These pistols' substantial bulk in light of their relatively small capacity can be seen as a drawback, but it has arguably kept resale values low.

The single-stack compact 908, 391x, and 395x pistols have been popular and sought-after for CCW for quite some time, and consequently are generally the priciest 9mm Smiths outside of the PC 952, the 147A, the 39 no-dash, and the über-rare Model 44.

The uncommon full-size single-stack 3rd-gen 3904, 3906, and 909 have generally been relatively unloved and inexpensive to buy, but there's been a recent upsurge in interest, which has started to make them harder to get. However, be aware that mag availability is MAY BE a serious issue, as S&W seems to produce these mags only intermittently has recently run out of mags, and it's unclear when/if they will be produced again. [EDIT: SEE MY FOLLOW-ON POST.]

The 10mm and .45 ACP pistols are good choices, but recent enthusiast interest has probably pushed the asking price of most decent examples beyond your budget.

OTOH the DAO models in all calibers can be good low-budget choices, as their resale value has generally been very low. However, be aware that the hammer must be partially pre-set by the slide before the pistol will fire; this lightens and shortens the typically looooong DA trigger stroke of the standard DA/SA pistols, but simultaneously eliminates second-strike capability if this is important to you. IOW if a DAO Smith fails to fire, the dud round MUST be cleared, as the trigger is disabled and the hammer cannot be thumb-cocked.

The frame-decocker models are relatively rare, and only a few versions were produced. Despite this, the 59- and 40-series models typically sell for only slightly higher prices than the standard DA/SA versions; however, the 1076, 4576, and 6926 have become proverbial Holy Grails to some collectors, and you can expect to pay accordingly if the seller knows what he/she has.

[Sevens]

Once you've digested all that fine information directly above my post...

Go find a former issued duty gun in Smith & Wesson 5906 guise. If you want the most gun for the lowest money, this is going to be the best option in a 3rd Gen. Most of these were the typical "shot a little, carried a lot" and along those lines, most of them were kept up by a certified S&W armorer. Because they made so many, they have VERY little "collector" value, but their value as a useful, enjoyable, durable handgun is EXTREMELY high.

In my findings, your best bet is one of these and then hit up a gun show or Gunbroker to find a new/old stock original Delrin replacement grip. The original grip shows wear easily, especially for the hard-carried duty gun over many years, so a new grip will alter the "curb appeal" of the old gun tremendously.

Bud's has exactly these pistols right now and I believe they're still at $350.

May be worth noting that S&W does not honor a lifetime warranty on former issued duty guns, and S&W keeps track of the serial numbers to know this. They'll still service the pistol (I would guess) but don't expect it to be the 'red carpet, everything FREE' kind of service. With a 5906, I doubt you'll need service.

[Sevens]

The uncommon full-size single-stack 3rd-gen 3904, 3906, and 909 have generally been relatively unloved and inexpensive to buy, but there's been a recent upsurge in interest, which has started to make them harder to get. However, be aware that mag availability is a serious issue, as S&W has recently run out of mags, and it's unclear when/if they will be produced again.

Update to the quoted text:

Smith & Wesson must have recently produced a run of these magazines as they are out there. My buddy bought seven of them and sold me three, keeping four for himself to feed his 3906. I use them on my 39-2, although they do hang just a tiny bit below the bottom of the 39-2, they run flawlessly and offer an extra round over the OEM magazine.

These magazines are packaged in the familiar clear plastic packaging that S&W uses these days, the label says 3906/909 MAG ASSY and the included number is 190580000. These are 9-round magazines.

As said, I use them on my 39-2, but I bought them to feed the 952 that I hope to one day own.

[carguychris]

^^^ Sevens, thanks for the update, I should have checked again before I posted that.

FWIW about 4-6 months ago, the supply of these mags apparently dried up, Midway USA put them on clearance and subsequently listed them as "NO BACKORDER", and there was a surge of rumors that they were gone forever (followed by a price spike on Fleabay ).

I was optimistic and posited that they would likely reappear, possibly the next time the Performance Center made a run of 952's. Apparently I've been vindicated. [Midway USA currently lists them as "Out of Stock - Backorder OK", indicating that more should be coming.]

BTW for the benefit of the OP, although this has been posted before... 3rd-gen 3904/3906/909/952 mags will work in the 1st-gen M39 and 2nd-gen 439/539/639, but NOT the reverse. The 3rd-gen grip is slightly longer, and the earlier mags will not lock in.

[Dirty_Harry]

In that price range I would look for a used G21 or and M and P 45. You can get the Glock with 10 round magazines.

[precision_shooter]

Part of my problem I've realized (even since posting this thread) is that I don't have a lot of time to go to a real gun store between work and other stuff. The nearest one is 30 minutes away!! And pretty small to boot. How far do you guys have to travel to get to a shop?

To get to a shop, I have some choices...
I can travel:
5 minutes North to a shop that has a decent selection of pistols and accessories/ammo, but at somewhat inflated prices on most things.
6 minutes West to a smaller shop with decent prices and a decent owner who is willing to make deals.
20 minutes North to a small shop who doesn't keep a lot of new inventory in stock, but usually has decent deals on used/consignment items and is willing to deal.
25 minutes South to Grab-A-Gun retail storefront - Don't have much to look at but can find good deals and they have a pretty big warehouse with good inventory.
30 minutes Southwest to Bass Pro Shop - Way Overpriced on almost everything!
35 minutes West to Cabelas - Great selection of new and used guns. Don't generally go here unless I have gift cards or good coupons.
40-45 minutes South or West to Cheaper than Dirt - Don't really shop here but it's there...

[Spats McGee]

@ carguychris -- Thank you. I knew that I'd seen a really excellent post by you on those Smiths & the Code and that's the one!

[Sevens]

I was optimistic and posited that they would likely reappear, possibly the next time the Performance Center made a run of 952's.

Ha ha ha, we are both optimistic, but I urge you to set your sights higher. Your optimism seems to be for the magazines. Join me and funnel your mojo toward a *NEW* run of 952 pistols, either for me to purchase or to soften the market just a wee bit for the lightly used one I absolutely want to own, and hopefully sooner rather than later!

See, if we do it my way...
We get the guns and the magazine production kicks in automatically.

Oh, for the sake of information, those magazines I just got, my buddy snagged them less than two months back and I checked with him, he ordered them from CDNN, so it wasn't like he found a small pile on a dusty shelf in a forgotten corner of store in the land that time forgot. And I just checked... $36.99 and in stock at CDNN right this second. BE QUICK!