I'm tired of having primers go off in my face

[Slamfire]

Is it possible that primer manufacturer's are making primers more sensitive? I have read any number of posts from shooters complaining that their thunderstick won't ignite their reloads. Said firearms go from pistols to rifles. Military rifles tend to have more robust ignition systems, but given time, even their mainsprings weaken. Modern manufacturers seem to have removed their inhouse expertize by downsizing, so the people left on staff are both cheap and incompetent.

Mark Humphreville , also known as Hummer70 and Humpy, wrote this excellent article documenting the loss of expertize in the commercial market.

IT DON’T GO BANG: FIRES, HANGFIRES, MISFIRES AND SHORT ORDER COOKS IN JERSEY By Mark Humphreville


http://gunhub.com/ammunition/42928-d...ort-order.html

Well of course, shooters don't blame the firearms, or the weak, inadequate ignition systems in the things, they blame the ammunition!. I remember lots of complaints about Russian primers being too insensitive to ignite. The Russians created designs, like the Tokarev pistol which has a heavy, free floating firing pin that rebounds off the primer. Unlike American pistols, there is no firing pin spring nor firing pin block. The Russians controlled slamfires through primer insensitivity. When these insensitive primers hit the market, and Americans with their antique mainsprings and weak ignition firearms could not make Russian primers go bang, I read a lot of complaints on line, calling Russian primers junk. Recently with the push to create cheaper to make striker fired pistols, I have read any number of complaints about these striker fired pistols not igniting ammunition, with the direct message that it was the ammunition's fault and had nothing to do with gun design.

Maybe the Russians heard the messages and decided if Americans want super sensitive primers, they will get super sensitive primers. I know Winchester redesigned their primer line to make their primers more sensitive. Prior to 2000, Winchester primers were nickel coated. I called and asked why they had removed the coating and was told the whole product line had been redesigned to make their primers more sensitive.

I think the whole thing is a race to the bottom. Be prepared for the day when a sneeze ignites all the primers in the loading tray!

[Chaz88]

1stmar said Get this http://leeprecision.com/new-auto-prime.html

I think some kind of similar hand press would be your next logical step. No hammers involved and I have never had a hand press pop a primer.

[wpsdlrg]

Probably cases with primer crimps, that have not been removed. When a new primer is seated, the pocket is too tight and the primer is partially crushed. Some go off, some do not.

The solution is to spend $11 on a primer pocket uniformer/ crimp cutter tool....and make sure all of the pockets are correct and de-crimped. You only have to do this once for each case.

[Jim Watson]

I doubt the Russians have softened their primers.
I know I got 0.1% misfires in 9mms with hammers and Wolf brand primers during Panic I.

I blame crimps remaining in range pickup military brass for the OP's "kaPOPs".

You can cut out the crimp with a knife, a deburring tool, or a countersink.
You can also seat primers with more control and less worry with a hand tool.
An old style round tray Lee will work if you can find one. The current crop gets spotty reviews.

[T. O'Heir]

Like Whisper 300 says, you're doing something wrong. Started with a .243 Lee Loader long ago too. There was no way to ignite a primer when seating 'em correctly. The mallet should be plastic only too.

[45_auto]

I stocked up on Tula primers a while back when they were cheap. On my Dillon 650 I've found that they don't seat anywhere near as smoothly as the Winchester's and CCI's that I had been using. They seem much harder and "grittier" feeling as they are being seated.

I would imagine that you would have a less exciting reloading experience if you change to a different brand of primers.

[mikld]

Nuttin' wrong with Lee Loaders! I started with one in 1969 and still have 4. One of my kits will pop primers (.44 Mag.) but the other 3 don't (I've had to change my panties a few times when a Magnum primer goes off! ). Check the priming cup/assy. Make sure the primers aren't too sloppy in the cup and that the spring loaded washer moves easily. Also, lightly tap the primer rod then remove the case, in the body die, and check to make sure the primer is entering the pocket straight. Easiest remedy is a hand priming tool, but I've used an arbor press (1 ton model, not a "reloading arbor press") to load mebbe 5,000 .38 Specials...

[wogpotter]

It sometimes requires more than a light tap to seat the primer because some of the cases have buggered up primer pockets or remnants of a crimp. I probably need to tool to clean the primer pockets so that I don't have to really hammer it hard.

You just identified your problem right there. Anything more than a light tap is excessive.

You can buy a primer pocket reamer tool for a couple of bucks with large & small bits. Go for it its better than "a blowin yer face off"!

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/c...013134_d_20597

[Unclenick]

I think the problem may be a combination of two things. One is what 45 Auto mentioned. The TulAmmo and Wolf primers tend to have burrs on their cup lips and are harder to seat than most. CCI primers were like that before they revamped their process in the early 1990's. I have old ones in the small boxes that are still hard to seat.

The other issue is that a lot of 9 mm cases commonly around are military or military style and had their original primers crimped. If you haven't removed these crimps, that could cause any brand of primer to go off using a Lee loader.

So, follow the suggestion to get a primer pocket reamer. At the very least, chuck a wood countersink cutter in a drill and clean up the mouth of the primer pocket with it. If they don't seat easier after that, get a Q-tip and some powdered graphite and alcohol. Mix the graphite with the alcohol and dip the Q-tip in and lightly coat the inside of each primer pocket with it and let it dry. See if that helps reduce the seating force required.

I have a friend who loaded shotgun shells with a Lee Loader many years ago. He kept setting primers off, too, but I never figured out how he did it. I used one of the old Lee Manufacturing Zero Error Target Model Lee loaders for 222 Remington for years without every having this happen.

[berettaprofessor]

Good gravy. Spend $15 of that money you are saving reloading and buy a lee hand-primer to do the priming.

[Mike38]

I must be a very lucky man. I have, in the past, seated primers a full 90 degrees off from what would be normal seatings. Completely crushed the primer sideways into the primer pocket. Not once have I set off a primer in my reloading press.

I've also seated primers upside down. Pressed them out with the decapping pin, very slowly and very gently. No unwanted bangs.

But now that I write this, it will probably happen.....

[Sarge]

That was the first reloading kit I had and yes, you will pop a primer occasionally with them. It is a character building experience that probably helped sell a lot of bench mounted presses over the years.

[us920669]

Yes, there is nothing more gratifying than gently and smoothly seating a primer by hand. I think you also mentioned roughness in the pockets and flashing around the flash hole. This would be considered a major problem with safety implications. I uniform my flash holes with a special tool, but I don't do volume reloading, so that might not interest you. Maybe you should get some better brass.
BTW, can't resist, I read something at least 25 years ago, maybe in Gun Report magazine, maybe somewhere else, - Khrushchev the Russian guy gave President Eisenhower a 12 ga double barrel shotgun one time, but it pierced the primers. Some people thought it was a plot to kill Ike. Winchester checked it out and decided the firing pin fall was set for Russian primers, which were much tougher. They straightened it out and everyone was happy.

[mikld]

Hmmm. Uncle Nick is on to something. I remember chamfering the primer pockets of a lot of my .44 Magnum brass. I don't believe I had many surprises after that (nope they prolly didn't "need" to be chamfered as a mil. spec. case might, but with my background as a life long machinist/mechanic, I thought stuffing a press fit brass cup into a hole would be smoother with a slight chamfer).

[Dufus]

It sometimes requires more than a light tap to seat the primer because some of the cases have buggered up primer pockets or remnants of a crimp

I learned a long time ago that you can't roller skate on a buffalo t*rd. You gotta move the t*rd first.

You will find a lot of 9mm brass that has crimped primers. You gotta remove the crimp with either a chamfer tool, a counter sink, or a tool for uniforming the pocket. If load a lot, the latter is the only way to go.

I never loaded a 9 with the hammer Lee, but I did lots of 380 ACP back in the old days. I never set off a primer during that time period of my handloading career.

Do it right and then have some fun.

[jdscholer]

I'll always have a soft spot for the Lee Loader. They started me on this path of my favorite hobby, and I know that I learned the fundamentals better than a lot of guys I see.

I had a few primers go off over the years, and I think that seating them is better done with "tappity tap" with a brass or nylon hammer rather than one big "thump" with a mallet.

After starting with my .243 Lee Loader, my blessed bro in law gifted me a powder scale and a Speer Manual, and I proceeded to pounding out sub MOA ammo for one of those great off the shelf shooters.

I've still got four or five of the sets in my cabinet, and can't seem to part with them... jd

[Slamfire]

I must be a very lucky man. I have, in the past, seated primers a full 90 degrees off from what would be normal seatings. Completely crushed the primer sideways into the primer pocket. Not once have I set off a primer in my reloading press.

I've also seated primers upside down. Pressed them out with the decapping pin, very slowly and very gently. No unwanted bangs.

But now that I write this, it will probably happen..

Do not take primers for granted, the things are dangerous. We are just so lucky that most of us still have all our fingers, toes, and eye balls.

But, when luck runs out and primers go off, it can be one heck of a bang.

This picture is what happened when a guy, loading 9mm with federal primers on a Hornady LNL, tried to force a primer into the pocket. As I understand, there was some resistance, and boom!




When the ammunition companies decided to make more profit, by using cheaper small pistol primers in the 45 ACP, they created the conditions for reloaders to get injured. These small pistol primer cases have a tendency to show up when you are reloading on a progressive. I had one appear on the tool head, I have no idea how it got there. I picked up my brass at the range and this case was in my collection. These small primer cases have caused a number of explosions in progressive reloading presses. The reloader was using large pistol primers and a small primer case appeared above the priming mechanism. I heard of a Dillion 650 or 1050 that totally fragmented (no pictures) and then of course, this Hornady LNL.

LNL AP Explosion/Fire
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=244584

Yesterday I switched my powder drop from my old Lee setup to the Hornady powder drop that came with the press. I got the insert so it flares and drops powder at the same time. I got the case flare looking good and dialed the powder drop to 4.7 gr of Titegroup for my .45 ACP rounds. It worked great. Deviation was maybe .05 gr over ten drops. I started loading rounds one at a time, checking the OAL which was 1.26 and very consistant. The last round I loaded I re-sized/deprimed. Next stage inserted primer. Now I don't remember if this felt smooth or was difficult. It may have been a small primer .45 case and I'm using large, or it may not have seated or it may have seated fine. I honestly don't remeber what happened. I indexed to the next stage to drop powder and flare the case when I heard a primer pop and then a loud bang. Then the powder hopper with almost a full pound of powder burst into flames and looked like a rocket engine with two ft of flames coming out the top. I immediately took off to find a fire extinguisher. I tore through all the cabinets and couldn't find it. I filled up a pitcher with water and ran back downstairs. Luckily the powder burned out without catching the ceiling on fire. I dumped water on the powder hopper since it was still on fire. Looking at the carnage I think the primer did not seat into the round and when the slide went back to pick up the next primer it went off blowing the 100 primers stacked on top of it. It blew apart the primer tube and it shot out of the saftey shroud. This was sharp and blowing up, so I guess it punctured the powder hopper and lit all the powder. Loading pistol rounds the hopper is very close to the top of the primer tube.

Lessons learned:

1. Always have a fire extinguisher at your reloading bench.

2. Verify all .45 brass is large primer type. I'm not sure if this was the cause but it could have been. It could have also been a crushed primer. Some brass just sucks and the primers don't seat.

3. Install metal cover around powder hopper on the side closest to the primer tube. This should prevent anything from blowing through the cheesy plastic hopper tube and starting a 2in rocket engine on the top of my reloader.

I sent Hornady an email telling them what happened to see if they replace the parts. If not I will make some calls. All I know is if the primers explode, (which happens) the powder hopper should not be effected. If I was loading rifle cases it would have been up higher and may not have been an issue. I've used this press for two years so I know what I'm doing, I was really shocked that I've never heard of this happening to anyone else. Be careful out there. Here are some pics of the parts and my ceiling.

[RC20]

My first reload tool was a whack a mole Lee.

Beat the daylights out of the cases and they failed after 3 or5 rounds.

I threw it away and got a press.

Lee makes good stuff, but that was junk (44 mag and my brother had 357, same thing)

Not primers went boom though!

[Slamfire]

Lee is now making a bench mounted priming tool. Notice how they oriented the tool so it is very hard for the operator to place himself in front of the case mouth. I don't think that was an accident.

[rtpzwms]

first the smart A$$ part: Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I1i8Toj8E



OK now for the better behavior:
Could you use an arbor press instead of a mallet? I've seen them on ebay for 50 bucks or so. As others have already pointed out a Lee auto prime hand primer or there are also several table top priming tools as well.

[mikld]

Yes, an arbor press, a shop press not an arbor press for reloading, does a great job with a Lee Loader. I have a 1 ton press (cast iron w/2" square ram). I've been known to sit in front of my press and de-prime 150-200 .38 special cases using just the decapping base and decapping pin. Sizing is a piece of cake, even .44 Magnum brass and priming is a breeze. I still used a mallet for seating and crimping, but there's no reason why an arbor press should not be used...

[t45]

I've got to think there is something wrong here. In 25 yrs of reloading, I've never had an issue with a fired primer. Ive used the inexpensive Lee hand priming tool for years and 1000's of primers and never an issue. If money is tight, I would go with Lee. Please remember to always wear eye protection because you never know.

[Blindstitch]

Sounds like someone needs a Lee Hand Prime. Or you could get a lee hand press and it should come with the ram prime.

I have four or five of those wack a mole style sets and I'm never using them again. All the hammering was irritating and seemed only useful as something to leave at deer camp.

[kerreckt]

While not exactly the same. I used a similar Lee loader for 16ga. shell reloading. That was 1968 and I continued using it until about 1972 when I bought my first press. I never had primers detonate while using the hand loader. In fact, I have never had an unexpected primer detonation. I hope my luck continues. Best wishes

[us920669]

I wasn't going to reveal my ignorance by saying that I had never even heard of the whack-a-mole system, but it's true - if someone had told me about it I wouldn't have believed them. I'm simply in awe at the idea of bring that kind of kinetic force to bear anywhere near a primer.
I started out using my press but that seemed like too much leverage. I bought a little hand squeezer which I used until it broke, then I replaced it with a better one, an RCBS, which will no doubt still be working long after I am not. Note that the better one was even more expensive because it replaced a cheap one that broke.