old guns

[oldbear1950]

Hey Ya'll
if you could what guns would you have manufactured today, that have been discontinued?
for me would be a new savage model 99 with the rotary magazine, the H&R single shot rifles in real rifle calibers, and make them with interchangable barrels, (real rifle calibers...243,308win, 30-06, 35 whelan, 7 mm rem mag, 7x57 mauser 8 mm mauser, 45-70, and the old savage over and under in 30-30/ 20 guage, or 300 savage/20 guage, or even 308/20 guage

but then I shoot left handed and the lever and single shots/over and under are easy to handle

[44 AMP]

Ruger No.3

Especially with different wood. Something more like the No.1 wood, but not identical. Call it a No.2 or maybe a No.4 but something with a better butt shape and a slight pistol grip.

Nearly all my favorite guns, and some of my favorite cartridges are discontinued items these days. I'd be happy to see any of them come back, especially certain calibers of ammo.

I'd also be happy to see Remington come back, hopefully with competent leadership and not sold out to be ruined by "corporate raiders".

I'd be especially happy to see S&W make revolvers EXACTLY the way they made them in the early 70s. No lock. No MIM parts. Firing pin on the hammer, pinned barrels, and recessed chambers in magnum calibers. The "little" things S&W did that said "quality" and that they don't do anymore...

Not holding my breath, highly unlikely they ever will make those again, but I SURE would be happy to see them.

[oldbear1950]

actually I have to agree, Remington come back as Remington, Ithaca come back as Ithaca, H & R come back as H & R, Put all the gun companies in the southern states, they seem to appreciate businesses, would put a lot of people to work, but I guess that is but a dream.

but at the end of March, I did pass the Remington ammo plant in Arkansas, and they had a full parking lot, and seem to be working. I drove to Kansas to attend my brothes funeral, had to pass in both directions, and they seemed to be working both days I passed by.
I wish ammo prices would go back to pre covid prices.

[Aguila Blanca]

Hey Ya'll
if you could what guns would you have manufactured today, that have been discontinued?

Winchester Model 1903

[Scorch]

Savage 1899- not the post-1950s atrocity.
Winchester 1894 (not AE and not post-64 configuration) Also the 64.
Remington 581 or 541
Remington Model 7
Marlin 444
Newton rifles

Winchester Model 1903

Why??? Winchester 63 is the same rifle in 22LR so you can actually find ammo.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Why??? Winchester 63 is the same rifle in 22LR so you can actually find ammo.

Two reasons:

1. My grandfather taught me to shoot with a Winchester 1903.

2. I have shot a 1903 side-by-side against a 63 -- the 1903 shot the snot out of the 63. No comparison -- the 1903 shot groups, the 63 shot patterns.

[Electrod47]

The one product that has a good chance of taking off again are H&R single shot rifles.
WITH a wooden stock. I mean the market research is in. Look at the prices these in-expensive rifles or heck, just barrels , are commanding in the marketplace. I bought my first in 1978, a .22 Hornet with mannlicher stock. Scotty's Bait and Tackle shop Bullhead City AZ 70.00 bucks. Asked for a box of shells, 17.00!!!!. Scotty sold me a Lee Loader a pound of 2400 and 2 sleeves of primers with the Lyman Load book. I still have that one and a 45/70 a few years later. Recently. I held my nose and PAID 375.00 for a 44mag barrel only. There's an appetite out there for more and a large following.

[oldbear1950]

I hope they bring them back. If they can put them out with truly interchangable barrels, would be awesome. and there is a large following. I was watching the show on internet called forgotten weapons and ian interviewed the CEO of the people who bought the rights to H & R and he said they would bring some things back but not everything. I hope that is one thing they bring back. He wanted to bring back the H & R M-1 garand

Said when they bought the H & R rights, that was something H & R still had the design stuff for

[44 AMP]

the H&R single shot rifles in real rifle calibers, and make them with interchangable barrels, (real rifle calibers...243,308win, 30-06, 35 whelan, 7 mm rem mag, 7x57 mauser 8 mm mauser,..

I'm pretty sure making them with easily interchangeable barrels and in "real" rifle calibers mentioned would require a redesign of the action, and that would increase the cost, possibly out of the "budget rifle" range.

Additionally, they'd probably need to make them so no "old" rifles would take the new barrels, and vice versa.

The big question (and with all the "bring back the..." ideas) is whether or not the existing demand for the old guns and their parts will translate into enough to make manufacturing them today profitable, AND sustainable.

You look at the prices of the originals, now, and think that would be so, BUT its a distorted market, with fixed supply. Remember the primary reason those great old guns we love were discontinued was sales weren't making enough money to keep them in production.

[Webleymkv]

I'd love to see the Remington Model 8/81 come back particularly in calibers that one can more easily find ammo/reloading components for. I know that the long-recoil action of these really isn't the most practical, but there's just something about them that I find fascinating.

[bamaranger]

There's old guns I like and then there's old guns I'd like to see made again.

I like old candy cane magazine Rem pumps, the 14 and 141, but I'd settle for a contemporary Rem 760/7600, especially in carbine length and .308. Have you priced a used one lately? While mentioning pump rifles, I'd like to see Savage bring back their Model 170, a pump rifle based on the Model 67 shotgun (?). When introduced, they were affordable alternatives to the Rem pumps.

I'd also like to see the Savage Model 24 combo guns reappear in something a bit more powerful than .22lr/.410. A .22 mag/20gauge, a .223/12gauge? Hmmmmm? What about a .22 Hornet/16 gauge?

I wish Savage would produce the SXS 311 shotgun again. Made in USA, affordable, durable, when available, they were a step above the single barrel in effectiveness, but cheaper I think ,than a mainline pump . I'm not sure the affordable Turk or Russian guns are their equal.

A lot of Ruger guns are no longer made that I really liked. I can't believe that a semi-auto .44 would not sell. Make it black and offer a bigger box and I bet the Model 99 would have survived. It's kin, the Model 96 in .44 should have, and I wish the .22 mag version was still available also. Another vote for the No. 3 to resurface, plain walnut would suffice, and make it in .223, the Hornet, and hey, why not 30-30?

I'll think of others.

[oldbear1950]

some of the later single shot H & R's were made in real rifle calibers, 308, 243, 45-70, 30-06 and 280 remington/7mm express, and even 7 mm mag. but they had beefed up receivers, shot gun receivers called SB1 AND rifle caliber receivers called SB2.
and were not interchangable. and that might be a problem, the interchangablity I mean

Some of the rifle caliber barrels were really good barrels, others not so much

heck i always liked the star bm and star pd 45

[Sevens]

I love the Coonan .357 “Magnum Automatic” and Dan Coonan has a fantastic mind for a wonderful handgun but evidence suggests that he is a horrendous businessman… and/or he associates with same.

[Ricklin]

I would like to see more rifles with Mannlicher stocks available. Seems the world is going away from wood, I want more.

[oldbear1950]

Yeah I agree, I can remember , once in a while a factory gun would come out with totally awesome looking wood, and Mannlicher stocks were amazing

[44 AMP]

I love the Coonan .357 “Magnum Automatic” and Dan Coonan has a fantastic mind for a wonderful handgun but evidence suggests that he is a horrendous businessman…

you can see this time and time again in the firearms industry. Genius designers not being genius (or sometimes even adequate) businessmen.

Even JM Browning. From a strictly "business" point of view (making the most possible profit) Browning did poorly. I believe it was because he was more interested in making guns than in making money.

Many of the guns he designed, he sold outright. It wasn't till the Auto-5 shotgun that he decided he wanted royalties. Winchester didn't want that. He went to Remington, and tragically, the Remington VP died while Browning was waiting to see him, Browning then went to FN, who jumped at the deal.

From a strictly making money point of view, His selling his designs outright was ....suboptimal..

[Sevens]

I am willing to give John M. Browning a pass for living in a different age!

If the thread is veering toward horrendous businessmen that should stick to gunmaking, I submit Harry Sanford, who made some fantastic guns and really ran some companies and brand names in to the ground at the same time.

[44 AMP]

I am willing to give John M. Browning a pass for living in a different age!

Yes, an age where there were people who believed there was such a thing as enough money....

[Scorch]

From a strictly making money point of view, His selling his designs outright was ....suboptimal..

Well, stop and consider that John Browning sold Winchester and Colt several designs that they didn't produce (one of his main complaints about their business arrangement). He possibly could have licensed designs to Colt and Winchester, but if he had been paid royalties he would have made no money on those gun designs from Winchester. Since he started out doing business with them at age 17, he probably didn't know about licensing his designs at the time, but he knew about it when he did business with FN. He licensed FN to produce the 1910, the Auto-5, Model 8 and the Superposed among others. Remington produced the Model 11 and Model 8 under license. He licensed his designs to a lot of companies. Variations of his Auto-5 were licensed to FN, Remington, Savage, and others. Colt produced the Monitor (BAR) for years. He died a wealthy man, so he must have done something right.

And now, back to the original thread.

[imp]

I keep hoping Ruger will bring back the 44 carbines, and introduce them in .357 also.

[44caliberkid]

Originally Posted by imp

I keep hoping Ruger will bring back the 44 carbines, and introduce them in .357 also.

Two thumbs up for that one. Also a pump action rifle/ carbine in magnum pistol calibers, ala the Timberwolf, with 10 to 15 round capacity, depending on barrel length. If there was ever a semi auto ban, the company already making a pump would be miles ahead. Like lever guns, Americans love a sweet pump action.

[imp]

Since Ruger now owns Marlin, I would love to see them make sort of a Super Model 60, in .357 Mag. Keep the long tube feed for 8-10 round capacity, and maybe a 2 position gas port, to allow for shooting .38 special and full magnum ammo.

[44 AMP]

Since Ruger now owns Marlin, I would love to see them make sort of a Super Model 60, in .357 Mag.

While it is a neat idea, I don't see it happening, there's just too much stacked up against it being profitable.

First off, it could only resemble a Model 60 on the outside. The entire gun would have to be designed from scratch, and that's not cheap.

Next point is caliber, and gas operation. Simply put, lead bullet ammo does not "play nice" in gas operated firearms. Ruger went through that with their .44 Mag semi auto decades ago.

Despite numerous and frequent advice/warnings to NOT shoot lead bullets in that gun, people did it, anyway. The had trouble, gunked up the gun, and then, of course, BLAMED RUGER....

Since even today the majority of .357 and .38 Special ammo has lead bullets, its going to happen. And expect the same thing, ignorant people will loudly, publicly, and frequently blame Ruger, and the gun's design, and the gun will get a poor reputation and sales will drop, Not fair, not HONEST, but it's what people WILL do.

Next point is relatively minor, but Ruger does not have a great track record with tubular magazines. This was another point of complaint about their .44 carbine, and again, for nearly the same reasons. People shoving lead (and soft lead) ammo into it, gunking things up, and it was very difficult to take down and clean. LIkewise, there is the built in difficulty of unloading the tube. The Ruger rotary box magazine is superb, and its almost a given Ruger would use that over a tube magazine system these days.

Lastly, there is the radical political climate today that seeks to ban/or otherwise restrict semi autos. ALL of them. Even ones with fixed magazines.

The idea might go somewhere as a pump, but as a semi auto, I don't think so, not these days....sadly...

[Pathfinder45]

In my opinion, Ruger ought to reintroduce the 1894 Marlin ASAP and waste no time about it. They should start with a substantial run of 357 magnums followed by either 44 magnum or 45 Colt. They should make most of them with a no-frills, yet well fit quality that the working man can afford. Walnut is mandatory, and they need to get the rifling twist better than ever.

I'd like to see Winchester re introduce the model 55 in solid-frame version. Only two calibers needed, 30WCF and 38-55.

[4V50 Gary]

9 mm C96 Mauser with 20 round detachable box magazine. Not practical at all.