PARA Expert Commander or RO Champion?

[JJ45]

Can anyone give an opinion on these pistols in 45ACP?

LW frame (alloy I suppose) commander length 4.25" for the PARA and 4" for the Springfield...Champion is more bucks.

I have handled them both but have not shot either, both feel very good but wondering about difference in quality, reliability, etc. Thanks for any advice,

[RickB]

Para is out of business, and Springfield has one of the best warranties in the business, so I'd go Springfield.

[Minorcan]

I have some old Paras and love them but as RickB says they are out of business. They were bought by Freedom Group. That's the company that ruined Remington, Para, Marlin, etc. You can't count on parts if needed. I have SA Range Officers as well. They are one of the most respected 1911 makers. I would definitely pass on the Para and go for the SA 100%.

[Lohman446]

I tried to buy a Para before they went out of business. Great reputation but of the four I picked up three were of unacceptable quality. All new but it was towards the end for the company (had not been announced). It was clear there was a slide from their reputation to what I handled

[JJ45]

Strange thing for being out of business they have a web site (PARA-USA) listing 6 categories of pistols (Elite, Black Ops, Expert, etc.) with as many as 10 different models in each category. Probably close to 50 different models!

PARA-USA....is this a Freedom Corps and Remington company now and is it a totally different company and pistol we are talking about?

[Brit]

I talked a good friend into selling his .45 Para, and going to a Glock 19.

He said he never regretted that decision. His problem with the Para, the magazines were rubbish, he said.

[JJ45]

Still hope someone will answer my question because I need educated on PARA USA being out of business when they have an apparently up to date web site that lists 6 categories of pistols with about 40 different models ( I said 50 earlier )

Google PARA-USA and you will see it....I am not trying to be a smart ass or nuthin but am just confused...Is it now a different company or what?...Thanks for your patience, JJ

[1stmar]

Para-USA is no more. I don't know why they still have a website up. As mentioned Remington will be making high cap 1911 which presumably are based on para design and will be interchangeable. I have 4 paras, including 2 late models, a black ops and pro custom. While I don't deny they had issues, the ones I have are flawless. I never have any issues. I do believe the slides were soft. Many complained about this. I started to see some peening on the slide stop notch. They are very accurate and feature rich especially for the price. Most of the issues were with high cap models and the feeding issues were easily resolved by para adding a ramp into the frame. Remington supposedly honors the para lifetime warranty. If you call the number on the para website it will (or at least it did) go to Remington.

[Wishoot]

My Para GI has been a reliable gun. It's completely bone-stock. I've got maybe 800 rounds through it (I don't shoot 45 that much).

The only time it's choked has been with really bad reloads (my fault).

[Minorcan]

Para did make terrible magazines but then most magazines that come with new guns aren't the highest quality. The problem with thinking Remington will honor a Lifetime Warranty for a Para is they can't even repair their new Remington 1911s in house. They send them to third party gunsmith. Stay away from anything Remington (Owned by Freedom Group). Go with the Springfield RO!

I did stupidly buy a new Remington R1 Enhanced and it has been nothing but trouble. It is currently in the Remington Lack of Customer Service Department. Been six months back and forth and still won't cycle anything. Came with the wrong caliber extractor, ejector fell out on the first range trip, chamber not correctly sized, etc. Stay away from anything Remington, new or old. Go with the Springfield.

[JJ45]

You hear a lot of bad reviews on the net and I mostly take them with a grain of salt, ...you know what I mean :roll eyes:

BUT, I seem to hear negatives about Remington more than others...it's a wonder they can stay in business? Especially now as there doesn't seem to be the usual buying panic...

Too bad, a once well respected American company.

[Gats Italian]

Para is done, but SA is the dumbest name in firearms, most being made in Brasil. Gremlington? What was the fourth choice again?

[RickB]

Springfield 1911s haven't been made in Brazil for a couple of years.
Maybe "most Springfields are made in Croatia" is closer to the truth.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Minorcan

I have some old Paras and love them but as RickB says they are out of business. They were bought by Freedom Group. That's the company that ruined Remington, Para, Marlin, etc. You can't count on parts if needed.

Remington has, indeed, killed off Para. I hoped when they bought Para that perhaps it would result in an improvment in the Remington 1911s by cross-pollination but, alas, it didn't happen. The Remington 1911s still seem to be junk, and Para doesn't exist.

But ... "you can't count on parts"? Maybe not from Para, but Brownells is still in business. A Para Commander uses all standard 1911 parts (Unless you have one with the Power Extractor). The ramped barrel that Para used on many of their pistols (other than the GI Expert series) is the popular Clark-Para pattern, which is offered by most 1911 barrel makers. I wouldn't let parts availability sway my decision.

[1stmar]

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/show...php?p=10192905

Haven't seen these yet but looks like they should be showing up soon. You can see they are keeping many of the options from the pro custom and black ops. I'm done buying 1911s but still keeping eye out. Para was very innovative and had a real pulse on the industry

[Big Shrek]

It truly cracks me up when folks say that a popular gun is hard to find parts for.
It's like saying that someone would have a hard time finding a fender
for a '72 Ford Mustang.

Look, if one can find every part for an ERMA-WERKE KGP68A online,
or spare magazines for a Calico Liberty III, getting parts for a Para-Ord
is a piece of cake. Especially when Para's used so many standard 1911
& Caspian parts...and a few of their own.

That being said, the LEAST EXPENSIVE way to own a Para-Ord,
is to buy a kit from SARCO and add your own barrel to it.
Frames start at $99...
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/search.aspx?find=Para
Slides at $77.97
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/para-ordnance-slides.aspx

And they sell most of the other Para-Ord parts as well...

[WC145]

Wow, this thread got weird in a hurry. I don't know the current status of Para but my father bought a LW Commander from CDNN last year. Decent gun, solidly built, good fit and finish, certainly worth what he paid for it (around $450-$475 IIRC). It hasn't had any functional issues but it did shoot quite low out of the box, like 6" low at 10yds. They had some sort of corporate entity at that time because dad called them about the shooting low issue and they had him send it in for warranty repair. I don't remember what they did to it but they had it about 6 weeks and when they sent it back it shot to point of aim at 10yds and will put one round on top of the other all day long.

I have two SA LW Champions, one is an Alchemy Custom build, the other is a stock two tone (black/green) Loaded. Great guns, typical Springfield, they're solid and feel overbuilt, run without any issues, accurate and reliable, everything you'd expect from SA.

Personally, given a choice between the two, I'd take a Springfield. They're a known quantity and quality is there, I've owned a bunch of them and have yet to be disappointed. Para, on the other hand, is a bit sketchy all the way around by comparison. I've owned a couple of their guns but it was years ago and I don't know that they would be representative of the current situation. The status of the company is in question, if you read about them the quality is inconsistent. If they aren't honoring warranties any more then you're stuck paying for repairs, if you have problems.

Buy the Springfield, you won't be sorry.

[Big Shrek]

Freedom Group/Remington owns Para now, and reportedly
they took some of the workers from the old Para-Ord and
put them to work fixing the problems with the R-1.

How true that is, I don't know. but it does at least make sense.


My stance is that if an owner can't do basic work on a 1911 or variant thereof,
they probably shouldn't own one. They're designed to be Idiot-Proof, or to be
more blunt, US Army & Marine Proof, as a field-strip & cleaning should
resolve most issues.

So for the average 1911/variant, the owner should be able to field strip,
replace all the springs, barrel, bushing, & guide rod without assistance from
a gunsmith or armorer. If one takes the initiative to watch a few Utube
Videos, and follow the instruction to the letter, total strip is easily attainable.
It's a heck of a lot easier to do that than it is to strip & rebuild a set of
Yamaha XS400 Special II's carbs

Which means the LDA kits at SARCO should be easily within range of the
average pistol owner with half a bucket of sense