Formulas for plated bullets.

[Prof Young]

I shoot a lot of plated bullets and have been relatively successful at figuring out formulas when I couldn't find one specifically for that weight plated bullet. I recall reading that you may load plated with the same formulas as lead, but want to bring it down a bit if you use FMJ formulas. That's what I've been doing and save for a couple attempted 380 formulas that were just a touch hot for my taste, I've done okay.

Thoughts and comments?

Life is good.
Prof Young

[noylj]

Read the bullet manufacturer's web site and you'll find, usually in the FAQs section, that they recommend:
Use lead bullet load data
Use start to mid-range jacketed load data
Do not exceed 1200 fps, unless they are Heavy Plated, then you can usually go up to 1500 fps.

Next, you can always use data for the next HEAVIER bullet.
Always start at the start load.
I prefer to check multiple sources and start at the lowest start load.
Finally, try some really great jacketed bullets from Precision Delta or coated bullet from Precision Bullets.

[TJB101]

Originally Posted by noylj

Read the bullet manufacturer's web site and you'll find, usually in the FAQs section, that they recommend:
Use lead bullet load data
Use start to mid-range jacketed load data
Do not exceed 1200 fps, unless they are Heavy Plated, then you can usually go up to 1500 fps.

Next, you can always use data for the next HEAVIER bullet.
Always start at the start load.
I prefer to check multiple sources and start at the lowest start load.
Finally, try some really great jacketed bullets from Precision Delta or coated bullet from Precision Bullets.

This.

Dead on and nicely summarizes everything I've ever read. I think you may find some plated mfg's denote a tad higher regarding max velocity. Shooting a lot of lead one day? Throw a few FMJ down range at the end to help clean the barrel.

Also, a lot of recipes are for shorter barrels. I wondered why I couldn't find a rifle recipe for my 357 rifle for 125gr lead.... they just go too fast.

[mikld]

This is my only concern with plated bullets; not enough easily found load data and loading info for new reloaders. New reloaders seem drawn to plated bullets (???) but often get confused and ask "How much of what kind of powder do I use with my plated bullets?"

I've only tried about 1,000 plated bullets and just used lead bullet data and methods, and used a proper crimp, with no problems. But I have a bit over 30 years of reloading under my belt

[kmw1954]

I'll state what I normally tell new loaders. Determine what load you are looking for, hunting, plinking, target shooting and then look at load data for those loads then match components. Much lower chance for a mistake. Then if you have to match a load to the components that are available locally.

I have found the best place to start for plated bullets data is on Western/Accurate website. They seem to have the most complete listing I've found yet. I have been switching to their powder for my plated pistol loads because of tat reason.

[Hammerhead]

When I shot a lot of plated in .40, 9mm and .45 auto, the speeds I saw on the chrono matched the speeds predicted by jacketed data, not lead data.

[T. O'Heir]

"...couldn't find one specifically for that weight..." Close counts. 5 or so grains won't matter.
"...FMJ formulas..." That data will give you far too much velocity.
"...not enough easily found load data..." Data is easily found in any manual.
"...speeds predicted by jacketed data, not lead data..." Isn't done using the correct data. Plated bullets are not jacketed.
"...Western/Accurate website..." Only has data for their products. Just like every other manufacturer's site.

[Hammerhead]

"...couldn't find one specifically for that weight..." Close counts. 5 or so grains won't matter.
"...FMJ formulas..." That data will give you far too much velocity.
"...not enough easily found load data..." Data is easily found in any manual.
"...speeds predicted by jacketed data, not lead data..." Isn't done using the correct data. Plated bullets are not jacketed.
"...Western/Accurate website..." Only has data for their products. Just like every other manufacturer's site.

Until Alliant and Hodgdon come out with plated data, we're left with experimentation and shared experience.

[Hammerhead]

Disregard my post above, I got off track.
What I meant to post was;

Isn't done using the correct data. Plated bullets are not jacketed.

I think we all understand plated bullets are not jacketed.
My point was, that without actual plated data, jacketed bullet data seems to be closer than lead data, so that's what I use.

[Rifletom]

I just started handloading plated X-treme 230gr RN for my .45Auto. Here are my two loads: Said bullet, 5.6gr Unique, mixed cases, Win LP primers and OAL of 1.265".
The other load is all the same, except 5.8gr Unique. I'll re-type, so there are no "oppsies" here. 5.6gr Unique and 5.8gr Unique with 230gr Plated RN bullets from X-treme.
MV over the screens has avg'd 825-835 fps. Accuracy has been better than I thought.
Hope this helps.

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been shooting a lot of Extreme Bullets the last few years and love them. In pistols I start at mid range lead and work up to mid range jacketed with good results. Most of the time I seem to get best results at just over jacketed starting loads, but have a couple pet loads that push the mid range of jacketed data. I load for .38sp, .357 mag, 9mm, and .41 mag. I shoot all of these in both handguns and rifles/carbine.

[Jim Watson]

9mm P Colt 1991A1 5".
3.6 gr HP38.
147 gr Xtreme Plated 1.155" 925 fps SD 10.
147 gr Magnus FMJ 1.155". 942 fps SD 8

[Prof Young]

Thanks for all the feedback. All this info helps a lot.
Life is good
Prof Young

[mikld]

Data is easily found in any manual.

Well, not in my;
Lyman 50th
Nosler from 2014
Hornady 9th

[kmw1954]

In another thread I was blasted pretty hard for what someone thought was being to general and not implicit enough. Was actually not really astonished by that comment and sort of expected it.

Sometimes we must speak in general terms because the subject is so vast and has many aspects to it with no clear defining point.

Here I made a comment about data from Western and right away hit with, well they only cover their product. Well no duh! Hodgdon and Alliant do the same thing, SO?

Now try the bullet manufactures as everyone suggests. Speer, Hornady also only list their products and Berry's, Xtreme, Bullet Works nor Rainier offers any kind of load data for their own product. Just the General statement to use lead or jacketed and from their you are on your own.

I have used Hodgdon powder with plated bullets and Hodgdon's data on their site is very limited, meaning if you are using a bullet other than what is listed you are on your own. Again while Western has data for a few of Berry's along with Rainiers and Speer Gold Dots. I was very much surprised to find such differences in the bullets of the same weight using such different starting and ending loads with the exact same powder.

In that other post that I was so admonished I was also told that you cannot always trust published data because there have been errors in the past. Well if we cannot trust published data then what are we doing and maybe we should all quite because this just isn't safe. Yet we are told time and time again to always find trusted published data and not to go by guess work or what some unknown has told you works for them.

Bottom line for me is I switched powders. If Western/Accurate wants to go through the trouble and provide the data I'm looking for then I'm going to use it. I just don't trust my own guess work.

[Rifletom]

kmw1954, I believe you pretty much nailed it. I certainly haven't seen/found any concrete loading data regarding plated bullets. Not from the manufacture's, that's for sure. What data is out there, always state "somewhere between higher end lead and mid-range jacketed". Well, that's what I've been doing. So far, so good.

[Metal god]

Rainier load data http://cakesniffer.org/stuff/boom/RanierData.pdf

Originally Posted by Rainier

Rainier recommends using commercially published jacketed bullet load data when loading our projectiles. There is no need for adjustment when using jacketed bullet load data. Our bullets are completely encapsulated in copper, creating a “Total Copper Jacket” (TCJ) through a specialized electroplating process, and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets.

We recommend a starting powder charge between the listed minimum and maximum load found in various published and reputable reloading manuals

Originally Posted by Berry's

We do not research or publish the load data. Please consult load data books or your powder manufacturers' website for load information. You can use published load data for lead/cast bullets or low to mid-range FMJ data, as long as it is the same weight bullet. Berry's offers our standard plate bullets which can handle velocities up to 1,250 fps and 1,500 fps for our Thick Plate (TP) versions

So it looks to me that just like all bullet makes . It really depends on the manufacture and how they're made . I was doing some comparisons where I could find apples to apples which was 45acp 230grRN . Rainier maxes out 1 full grain+ more then FMJ when using HS-6 and Win 231 on Hodgdon website . Which leads me to believe you don't dare use Rainer data for Berry's bullets . It's also leading me to question that Rainier data . If I recall it's from Midway USA website and not directly from Rainier

[kmw1954]

Metal god at least this shows that you are still thinking about this.

I have stated my view, right or wrong, and the reasoning behind my viewpoint. As to date no one has posted anything that would make me change my mind on the use of plated bullets.

To me at least it seems that since the plated bullet manufacturers are not going to publish load data for their products But instead issue general statements on Recommendations then I suppose we must look to the powder manufacturers for data.

Which again has proven to be all over the board and very limited, especially with the smaller cases such as 9mm and 380acp which in todays world are pretty popular cartridges.

An apples to apples comparison?
From Western for a 124gr 9mm projectile all using the same powder, True Blue;

Cast lead RN 4.3gr to 5.0gr
Rainier RN 5.1gr to 6.0gr
Rainier HP 4.9gr to 5.8gr
Berry RN 5.1gr to 6.0gr
Berry HBFP 4.6gr to 5.5gr
Speer GDHP 4.9gr to 5.7gr
Rem GS 5.3gr to 6.2gr
HDY XTP 4.7gr to 5.5gr


Throughout all this what I find most interesting is the data on the Berry's Hollow Base Thick Plated bullets. Berry's so far seems to be the only one making a bullet such as this. I can also say from using them there is a huge difference in construction and performance. Yet again little to no published data for this bullet.

Now real life experience from me.

When I 1st started with plated bullets they were 124gr flat base RN from Berry's and the powder I was using was Hodgdon HP-38. The data on their site listed the Berry's 124gr HBTPRN, which of course wasn't what I was using but decided to use that recipe anyways and go slowly. The starting load for that is 3.9gr so I loaded up 10 to try out. Which was the same as for cast lead 125gr only loaded .025" shorter.

Well those 1st ten rounds would barely cycle the gun and would not lock back the slide on the last round so they were definitely too light. At 4.0gr and loaded .010" shorter they would function and lock back but not reliably. So at this point I was only guessing.

I have since purchased some Western powder and tried it with both the Hollow Base and the Flat base Berry's and can say that their starting loads for each have fired flawlessly in that same gun.

At the current time I do not own a 40S&W, 10mm or 45acp. Also do not own at this time a 38/357 which is what I learned with and do hope to find another revolver. Which leaves me with the 9mm and 380acp.

[David R]

Just started loading plated for the 380. I bought 250 HBRN 100 grain.

Loaded what I thought was a good one, 3.3 WW 231.

I looked in Hornady, Lyman, Speer, WW handbook. Lyman says WW 231 is a good powder for this caliber.

went to the range with Crony. AV 764 fps, ES 100. Expected 100 fps more.

Trying Unique and Blue dot next.

Hogdgon website shows the most powders.

David

[kmw1954]

Hey David R, so how did they perform for you? From what I found on Hodgdon's site they list 231 and HP-38 with a 100gr at 2.9gr to 3.1gr which I tried with Xtreme 100gr and my gun didn't like them. Looked more like a shotgun pattern than a group. Then tried 3.7gr and 4.0gr of Ramshot Silhouette and wow what an improvement with the best groupings coming from the 4.0gr load. I think it likes the slower powder better.

[David R]

I found this earlier with 102 grain cast bullets too.


Results:

Crony'd the WW231 and some others.

3.3 grains WW231, OAL .970" 100 grain HB plated Berrys. AV 762, ES 100

Bumped it up to 3.5 WW 231. AV 802 ES 100. HOrnady shows 3.5 for jacketed bullet.

Tried 5.5 grains Blue dot, looked like not much more would fit in the case. I did find published up to 6.0 in modern books, and 6.5 in an old one.

AV 750 ES Two hundred seventy nine! Yes, 279.

Then went to my stand by, 4.0 Unique. Ahhh yes, AV 864, ES 61.

I have seen in the hercules reloaders guide up to 4.2 and just saw in LEE book 4.3 unique for a 100 grain bullet.

Sticking with 4.0 for these. Its a new P238 which is not even in my possession yet. Loads were tested in my Ruger LCP.

Just for reference I am getting 850 fps from winchester white box and remington round nose. I think 95 grain for both, so I am happy with 862 for a 100 grain which is a few foot pounds more.

David

[black mamba]

Western Load Guide (Accurate and Ramshot powders) lists pistol loads for both Ranier and Berry's plated bullets. Not every one, but enough to understand where they fall between cast and jacketed.

http://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-co...1-2016_Web.pdf

[Nathan]

Western has a ton of data like you are asking for, but does anybody see what I see.....across the range of 124gr 9mm aa#5 data, I see a few tenths of a grain variation on max load, a few hundred psi in pressure at std oal's for hp and run rounds. They all have about the same velocity also...about 1075 fps.


You can follow these loads exactly or work up your own and confirm velocity.

Can I deviate? Yes, I do. How do I know I'm safe? Confirm velocity, case marks and accuracy. Best accuracy at or below 1075 fps is in the same pressure spectrum.

[kmw1954]

Nathan I think if you look a little closer you will see that same pattern across the board with all powders and not just the #5.

[MJFlores]

Use a chronograph and load for velocity....1100 to 1200 max fps.