IBS anyone?

[stagpanther]

I'm contemplating trying one of these--mostly cause it's the only thing even remotely reasonable to drive to near where I live. The one I'm contemplating has several different classes; this is the description:

"Each relay in turn will shoot a warm up followed by five scored matches. The meet allows for rifles in the following classes: Varmint for score, Hunter, Varmint hunter, AR (with brass catcher), and any factory rifle with any scope."

What I can't tell is if the only class for the "score" method is used for all the classifications or just the varmint class. The varmint class apparently is ruled by almost exclusively 30BR entrants because of the wider caliber. I don't have one, and while I like the specs of the cartridge I'm not sure I'm interested in investing in a "one trick pony." Does anyone know if the other classes are scored using a different method, and what that might be? I just want to not show up with a different cartridge if everyone is using the same thing.

[stagpanther]

The cricket chirping is deafening.

[Shotgun Slim]

Maybe the crickets wonder why you would shoot Irritable Bowel Syndrome or whatever that stands for........

[georgehwbush]

some crickets understand "international bench-rest shooting" but have no experance there "chirp chirp"

[stagpanther]

Maybe the crickets wonder why you would shoot Irritable Bowel Syndrome or whatever that stands for........

Bring spare underwear. I'll skip that match.

[georgehwbush]

i wonder where all the bench-rest shooters are ?

[stagpanther]

Before I posted this the last thread was up for a very long time. I guess the match guys hang out elsewhere? Never seen any mention of the 30 BR here but it seems to be the current darling of moderate range bench rest. It has some amazing chracteristics but I'm having trouble committing myself to building one--it has very limited bullet choice, in fact I can't find any of the special flat base bullets it uses.

[georgehwbush]

flat base, yuch!

i know. i know. short range better accuracy. but isn't that all because of tail steering by the propellant gas?

and don't they usually have more wind deflection, due to lower bc?

at any rate; the open class "any factory rifle with any scope" was for years dominated by 6mmbr i guess now it's 7.62mmbr ;/


as i recall david tub took the trophy one year with a 243ai

[stagpanther]

If you take a close look at the reviews--it's pretty compelling; very efficient (guys are getting 3000 +\- fps with 110 to 120 gr bullets) and like the 6mm is amazingly accurate and consistent. Also--the wider caliber gives an advantage in scoring where you get credit for breaking the edge of the score ring. BUT you're limited to the 1:17 or 1:18 twist--and like you say the wind does have a big influence at longer ranges. In the event (a distinct possibility) that I don't end up liking the IBS short range scene which is still pretty isolated around my parts, I'm wondering just how useful outside of that limited event these things can be.

Someone's already at worked on an improved version--the 30 BRX.

[georgehwbush]

yeah cartridge of the month comes out nearly as fast as new software.

short (true) story; i run exclusively opensource software, and several years back, when the latest version of "brand to remain nameless" was about to release, i was told by one of the developers, "you need to upgrade to "version" because that older version you are running is junk. this new release is much better."
so i did upgrade... a few months later i was told the exact same thing about the new new release. i asked the guy, "if the one that i am now running was supposed to be way so much better and the one i had before it was junk, and now you are telling me that the one i have now is junk, and the new new one is much better. when in fact i can't tell that the last upgrade gained me anything, why should i believe you about the next one?" kind hurt his feelings i guess, but people loose credibility that way. and when i read someplace all the rage about the latest and greatest new cartridge/bullet/powder/primer/gun design/trigger... pick your poison, i kinda take it with a grain of salt.

are there improvements, yeah sure. but they are usually not as much of an improvement as they are a sails gimic. or that's my openion anyway.

i like things that are tried and true. you can't go wrong with most of them, even if the new car smell has worn off.

[stagpanther]

yeah cartridge of the month comes out nearly as fast as new software.

short (true) story; i run exclusively opensource software, and several years back, when the latest version of "brand to remain nameless" was about to release, i was told by one of the developers, "you need to upgrade to "version" because that older version you are running is junk. this new release is much better."
so i did upgrade... a few months later i was told the exact same thing about the new new release. i asked the guy, "if the one that i am now running was supposed to be way so much better and the one i had before it was junk, and now you are telling me that the one i have now is junk, and the new new one is much better. when in fact i can't tell that the last upgrade gained me anything, why should i believe you about the next one?" kind hurt his feelings i guess, but people loose credibility that way. and when i read someplace all the rage about the latest and greatest new cartridge/bullet/powder/primer/gun design/trigger... pick your poison, i kinda take it with a grain of salt.

are there improvements, yeah sure. but they are usually not as much of an improvement as they are a sails gimic. or that's my openion anyway.

i like things that are tried and true. you can't go wrong with most of them, even if the new car smell has worn off.

Agreed. Though it's pretty easy to see how the shooting competition game drives those refinements; the rules get pretty esoteric and then the experienced competitors are pretty quick in figuring out the best way to excell at the requirements.

[georgehwbush]

anyway stagpanther; if you do go that route, keep us updated.

[stagpanther]

anyway stagpanther; if you do go that route, keep us updated.

Will do--curiosity almost always gets the better of me--and this one has been out a while.

[44caliberkid]

I don’t know anything about BR competition, but I do shoot, or have shot, five other types of competitive shooting. Before I shot CAS, I went and watched a match. Everyone was very friendly and wanted to help, even offered me guns and ammo to shoot a stage. When I did my first military high power, I just showed up with my Garand and ammunition, and again, everyone willing to help. Just reading the description of the match online I had no idea what we would be doing, but it was actually easier than it sounded and I learned everything I needed to know from that first match.
Anyway, I didn’t need to win or even do well, I just wanted to shoot, but being competitive evolved quickly. New shooters are always warmly welcomed, until they find out you’re good. (Joke) Just show up with your stuff and go for it.

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by Shotgun Slim
Maybe the crickets wonder why you would shoot Irritable Bowel Syndrome or whatever that stands for........

I have nothing to add other than it took me a good ten minutes to get over the giggle fit that this post induced as when I read "IBS," Irritable Bowel Syndrome was the first thing that popped into my mind too. I've always seen "International Bench Rest Shooting" abbreviated as either IBR or IBRS.

[stagpanther]

Well, that's how it's listed on the comp calendar--I wasn't just passing gas. I just ordered a 30 BR barrel; so by the time it comes in I'll have like a few days to assemble a rifle, come up with a good load and get to know how it shoots if I go to the comp. I view it as a learning experience, so why not right?

[FrankenMauser]

Get on it, buddy.
I hope you do well enough for it to be worth your time.


But...
The entry on the calendar sounds like .22 LR only.
Are you sure they're doing centerfire at that club?

[stagpanther]

But...
The entry on the calendar sounds like .22 LR only.
Are you sure they're doing centerfire at that club?

Thanks.

If you scroll down the list you'll see a centerfire event for July 20. I seriously doubt I'll be able to get all the parts, dies, bullets etc in in time enough to build a rifle and familiarize myself with a totally new type of rifle--let alone develop good loads for it, but I'll try if possible.

[stagpanther]

The deeper I look into this, the more I realize this is going to be a complicated affair. The 30 BR appears to be one of those cases--like the 6ppc it rivals--where forming up the brass is quite a technical affair, complicated by the fact that there is no such thing as 30 BR brass, and generally 7mm BR is unavailable, so that means taking 6mm BR and necking it up. Accuracy is a factor of a very short free bore with the bullet basically into the leade and neck tolerances to fit chamber and grip the bullet are critical. Looks like I'm going to need to bone up on mandrels, turning gear etc in order to get a proper case developed before I even begin to think about shooting it. Brass OCD is not one of my favorite occupations. I've been trying to catch up on my Robinett literature.

[stagpanther]

I have piles of used 6mm BR brass--necking it up to .308 is a pretty significant stretch, I couldn't find any 7mm BR brass so have to make do with what I have. This raises the issue of neck consistency and strength; I haven't even received the barrel yet but I can tell this is going to require a very close fit to the chamber. I have a K&M mandrel die that I'm using to go to .284 before using a the 30 BR die (which I haven't received yet).

[stagpanther]

Rifle is assembled--but I'm dead in the water; I've ordered the necessary neck bushings--in fact I ordered the same size bushings from multiple vendors all of whom said they were in stock but none of whom has packed and shipped them as of yet. The barrel I got was cut to Robinett's specs; the chamber neck being .330 and case length specified as 1.510. The design is intended to have a precise neck tension and bore engagement right from the start upon chambering. I've struggling with the mathematics of the thing--it's not quite as simple as adding up the various components because there is no 30 BR brass--you have to neck up either 6 or 7 mm brass; and of those two only 6mm BR is generally available. That's a pretty big jump and the brass is going to flow in such a way that I haven't been able to get precise consistency through the entire length of the neck to shoulder; I've ended up with external doughnuts at the neck/shoulder junction and that will stop the case from fitting the chamber. The trick (apparently from what I've read) is to get the brass sized well enough to get a first fire-forming shot. I know what you're thinking--just turn the neck, and I do have the turning equipment to do it--but I want to avoid removing brass if at all possible. I have smaller 308 bushings--but I think for this particular chambering assuming typical neck thickness of .012 to .02 the necessary bushings are going to be in the range of .327 to .329. As far as I know there is no "one pass" 30 BR sizing die, I guess because the brass is meant to be form-fitted to a particular chamber.

[georgehwbush]

so mr quigley you're using an experimental weapon with experimental ammunition, so lets experiment... :S


the more they over think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain....

[stagpanther]

so mr quigley you're using an experimental weapon with experimental ammunition, so lets experiment... :S

I never said I didn't know how to use one.

[stagpanther]

The bugger is expanding the neck out with to 308. That additional diameter is going to have to displace the intersection of the neck and shoulder. That's the critical intersection that has to be just right or the cartridge won't chamber. On my Wilson 30 BR die when making a pass on the neck after enlarging it through a mandrel the bushing does not seem to go down far enough the neck (I've already trimmed the case length at that point)--what's happening is that there is a "flare" of the neck diameter at the shoulder junction that exceeds the chamber neck diameter of .330. From what I've read the goal is to get a functional cartridge that can fit and then be properly fire-formed. This isn't my first ride on a wildcat that needs case reworking and fire-forming; but it's been one of the most challenging so far.

[Shenna9220]

Ok, maybe this is a stupid question but you said above you have 6mm BR brass, so I assume you have a rifle that shoots that, can you use that in you first comp the get the process down while you perfect the 30BR?