303 British

[akinswi]

I have been neglecting to load up some ammo for my Lee Enfield MK 4. The powder I want to use is WC846, The reason? I have 16lbs of the stuff and needs to be used.

I believe this powder was used for .303 Im assuming I can use BLC2 data start at about 10% below starting data work my way up.

I have some 174 grain BTFMJ, Priv cases and will use WLRP. I also have 8lbs of AA2700 I can use aswell. I do have IMR4895 and IMR4064 but I like to save those powders for M1.

Im assuming need to keep below 2400fps

I dont have alot experience with this cartridge. Any help would be appreciated. Im assuming if the 174s dont shoot well Ill probably have to switch over to a Flatbase bullet, any suggestions on those?


Thanks

[Mike38]

Years ago I owed and reloaded for a .303 Brit rifle. A No4 Mk1*. I found BLC2 to be a very good powder for this cartridge. If WC846 is the same as BLC2, you may like it. I loaded 125 grain bullets, so can't help you with the heavier ones. Accuracy was acceptable with my reloads. With old surplus ammo it shot around 5 inch groups at 100 yards, but with my reloads it was less than 2 inches.

[mikejonestkd]

I suggest neck sizing brass after an initial firing. Enfields tend to have generous chamber dimensions, so you want to avoid over working the brass.

[Marco Califo]

Surplus 303 from India/Pakistan had cordite propellant (semi-clear strands) and Berdan primers. In Canada it is as popular as 30-06 is in America.

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by mikejonestkd

I suggest neck sizing brass after an initial firing. Enfields tend to have generous chamber dimensions, so you want to avoid over working the brass.

That’s exactly what im doing. Neck size then Ill eventually have to Full Length.

Im going to start with the AA2700, I couldn’t t find any data in either of my manuals with BLC2 and 174 grain projectile

Was actually impressed with Privs Brass very little burrs in the flash holes

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by Mike38

Years ago I owed and reloaded for a .303 Brit rifle. A No4 Mk1*. I found BLC2 to be a very good powder for this cartridge. If WC846 is the same as BLC2, you may like it. I loaded 125 grain bullets, so can't help you with the heavier ones. Accuracy was acceptable with my reloads. With old surplus ammo it shot around 5 inch groups at 100 yards, but with my reloads it was less than 2 inches.

Mike38,

This was an MK4 I bought years ago from JG sales it was an unissued one but was in terrible shape cosmetically but the bore is fantastic because it was never shot with corrosive ammo.

So 17 years later lol finally gonna work up some loads

[44 AMP]

Neck size then Ill eventually have to Full Length.

Maybe. It's also possible your brass will fail before full length sizing is needed.

The .303 British headspaces on the rim, and military rifle chambers for it are often described as "generous". Meaning oversize, except where the rim fits.

Remember that, from the military point of view, NEW ammo only needs to go into the chamber, fire, and come out, ONCE.

The "Case gauge" you should use for your .303 is the rifle chamber itself. And even using just that and neck only sizing, don't expect a long life from your reloaded cases.

I used to FL size "once fired" .303 brass, once, then neck size after that, and would get between 2 and 6 reloads, usually.

HOWEVER, I have also has several "once fired" cases fail on their first firing (including one total head separation). So, I stopped getting "used" brass in .303 British. NEW stuff or loaded ammo that I fired are my case source now, and since I don't shoot them a lot, its enough to meet my meager needs.

2400-2500fps is the velocity range for the 174-180gr slugs. Lyman's old "factory duplication" load was 2433fps with a 180.

IMR 4895 is the "go to" powder but lots of others will work just fine in the proper amounts.

IF the fired case fits in your rifle chamber, size the neck to hold the bullet and use it. That will give you the longest case life, but don't expect it to be very long in the SMLE rifles.

And, don't expect them to be subMOA tackdrivers, no matter what some internet commando says he got. IF you get that, you are blessed. But if you can get 2-3MOA that's pretty good for what the rifles are.

Keep an eye on pressures. 45K psi was the intended working limit and while the rifles (in good condition) will safely handle a bit more its foolish and stupid to push it.

Good Luck, have fun, be safe!

[tangolima]

The best way to size .303 for me is partial length resizing. I raise the full-length sizing die to let the brass grow in length and diameter, so much so that the brass actually headspaces on shoulder. I can get close to 20 loads.

2MOA is about right.

I still haven't sold my Lee collet die. Please let me know if anybody wants it.

-TL


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[HiBC]

A trick that in some cases may extend your case life.

They make very small rubber bands for orthodontic purposes. It might be that slipping one over the case and down to the rim will preload the case head against the bolt face.Then the shoulder will be fireformed as the new headspacing feature without stretching the case.

I make no guarantees.... Its just clutter in the dusty corners of my mind.

[Deltadart]

I too have a SMLE No1 Mk3* 1941 Ishapore that I have restored and am now reloading for. Some of my brass falls into the "once fired" category. Would it help to anneal the brass before doing a full-length re-size on the pieces that will not chamber in the rifle? After which I would only neck resize.

[Marco Califo]

Are your cases Berdan primed? Almost all, if not all, military are. They are not considered to be reloadable.
So, if you have commercial brass you can resize. Annealing once fired commercial cases should not be necessary for first reloading.

[Unclenick]

Per HiBC's suggestion, we had someone on the board once suggest o-rings for the same purpose: a shift to headspacing on the shoulder to increase brass life, but without having the initial stretch at the pressure ring that the chamber head clearance will allow. If you have a lathe or know someone with one, I think I would measure the diameters of the chamber and rim recess at the breech and make a series of chamber-extending washers to fill the head clearance and select the one I needed to reduce the head clearance to a thousandth or two for each case's first firing.

[Deltadart]

I do have some WWII Mk ammo, but I have no intention of firing it in my rifle. All of my brass is commercial, however the pieces that are "once" fired may not be entirely accurate, since I have no knowledge of their previous life. My thought is a reloader would not have left them on the range, but a not reloader would be more likely to do so. It probably is not necessary to anneal but I am thinking it may not help but will not hurt.

[akinswi]

I noticed that there was alot of soot and the cases were very dirty , Im assuming it had to do with the generous chamber and is blow back due to the fire forming process, As my powder charges increased the soot decreased. Im interested too see the difference after these have been fireformed .

[Unclenick]

The soot is, as you have deduced, a low-pressure sign as the case isn't pushed out hard enough to seal off the chamber completely. Generally, the brass is thinner and, due to annealing, softer at the shoulder than the rest of the case body, so shoulders blow forward easily. If you've ever seen a 308 Win case after someone managed to fire the loaded round in a 30-06 chamber, you'll know what I mean.

In your shoes, I would take a soft lead bullet out of a round of 22 Rimfire and slice a short cylinder of it and squash it in the rim recess by closing your bolt on it. On opening, you will have something you can measure that equals your headspace. Then measure the rims on a bunch of your bullets to determine their maximum thickness and subtract it from the headspace. That is your head clearance. It is what a washer thickness should be to prevent the shoulder from moving forward significantly when you put a fire in a case for the first time.

[44 AMP]

The soot is, as you have deduced, a low-pressure sign as the case isn't pushed out hard enough to seal off the chamber completely.

I have to add a bit of further explanation to this, its not that the case doesn't seal against the chamber, its that the lower pressure doesn't tightly seal the case against the chamber BEFORE some of the powder gas gets on it, which leaves the soot marks.
Other than cosmetic, this is seldom a problem.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by HiBC

A trick that in some cases may extend your case life.



They make very small rubber bands for orthodontic purposes. It might be that slipping one over the case and down to the rim will preload the case head against the bolt face.Then the shoulder will be fireformed as the new headspacing feature without stretching the case.



I make no guarantees.... Its just clutter in the dusty corners of my mind.

Rubber is pretty compressible. It probably gets crush down by the force of the striker. It may even cushion the striker from igniting the primer, just like not seating the primer deep enough.

To achieving the same goal, I quite like, and actually have done that quite regularly, the idea of slamfire, a member who frequented this forum. I grease the brass. I know this is controversial. But it makes a lot of sense to me, and it really works. It may be part of the reason I routinely have 20 loads out of a brass.

-TL

PS. I don't really put a lot of lube on the brass the way slamfire did to prove his point. I just skip wiping the sizing wax off my rounds.

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[akinswi]

These are Fireformed now, So I should be able to necksize and be fine.

I noticed that it did expand the shoulder more to match my chamber size but that was to be expected

And yes Unclenick, I have 7.7 arisaka that was rechambered in 30-06 and I didnt know, and it actually was one of my first post on here years ago on why my brass was fireformed incorrectly. its amazing how soft brass can be

[HiBC]

Rubber is pretty compressible

I understand what you are saying. I'll give it a "maybe". Foamed rubber is compressible . Rubber is no more compressible than hydraulic oil.

It can be distorted to fit a space. I think the orthodontic rubber bands are cut from surgical tubing.

Frankly, I have not had occasion to test this method. I would not hesitate to try it on a cartridge like 7x30 Waters in a Contender. A friend had one that would maybe go 4 loads to case separation. It might be useful for my Krag.

You might be right. The answer may be found with testing. There is no answer in us arguing. I'll keep in mind grease works for you.

As I recall Unclenick once suggested the O-ring and as a kid I had braces on my teeth.

[akinswi]

I did notice in my lee collet die and lee seater die set it included some load data and behold it had some BLC2 data!

I will probably have to switch over to a magnum primer to help ignite the ball powder better but after 12 years on the shelf time shoot up some of this WC846

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by HiBC

I understand what you are saying. I'll give it a "maybe". Foamed rubber is compressible . Rubber is no more compressible than hydraulic oil.



It can be distorted to fit a space. I think the orthodontic rubber bands are cut from surgical tubing.



Frankly, I have not had occasion to test this method. I would not hesitate to try it on a cartridge like 7x30 Waters in a Contender. A friend had one that would maybe go 4 loads to case separation. It might be useful for my Krag.



You might be right. The answer may be found with testing. There is no answer in us arguing. I'll keep in mind grease works for you.



As I recall Unclenick once suggested the O-ring and as a kid I had braces on my teeth.

Compressibility may not be the right wording. Flexibility may be better. Rubber is incomprehensible when it is fully contained. It is not going to reduce its volume under pressure when it has nowhere to go. If there is room sideways, it will go sideways and become thinner. In this case the rubber band is only contained on 3 sides. Under chamber pressure it will become thinner. That's really what I meant.

-TL

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[Marco Califo]

[some BLC2 data]
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...c=true&type=54