Why load hot

[cw308]

Last week at the range, for the second time, same guy with a new rifle. loading 46.7 grains of varget under a 168 gr sierra bullet 308 cal. had head separation. When it happened the first time I asked what are you loading, 46.7 varget, I said isn't that kind of hot. yea but I get good groups. This time with his new setup same thing, I asked what are you loading, 46.7 varget, he siad I guess it's time to use new brass. He had 3 reloads on that brass. I think it's time to find a lower charge that also groups well. What is it with the highest velocity.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Head separation comes from improper sizing, not hot loads.

As to "Why hot?"... Why super-charged Corvettes? Why lift kits on trucks? Why rock crawling Jeeps? Why skydiving?

[SpringOWeiler]

Because fireballs are fun! 180xtp 44mag 32gr H110

[jwrowland77]

Well, I have a hot load for my 1000yd load in order to have accuracy and keep it supersonic. I'm using 2000-MR and only loading .2 below max at this time.

Other than that, I never load hot. With this load though, there's a reason and the load is performing quite well....now if the shooter will perform better than life would be grand.

I also agree with Brian, it's from improper sizing. I have at least 4 loads on mine and the cases look great and feel great when doing the paperclip feel test.

[Marco Califo]

Why? Flatter trajectory at long range.

[TATER]

I can tell ya what a diet hot 4831 and 4350 loads do to a BAR in 30-06…
Slow powder in a gas-gun, He broke it.

[Bart B.]

46.7 grains of Varget may not produce higher than SAAMI spec 52,000 CUP pressure. Hodgdon's site says 46 grains is max producing 50,000 CUP in their barrel under a 168-gr. bullet. That guy's barrel may be a bit bigger in bore and groove diameters or his lot of powder a bit slower; we don't know that very important stuff. Powder charge weight itself is not the only contributor to pressure levels.

My guess is he's oversizing his fired cases such that way, way too much head clearance time and time again caused the case to stretch too much and the head cracked loose. He may have worked up to that load and saw no signs of excessive pressure.

[AllenJ]

Why? All the reasons stated above plus he wants to brag about it.

A few range trips ago a friend who I had not shot with before came out. He was shooting a Weatherby Vanguard in 300 Weatherby Mag and proudly produced a box of ammunition that "a friend" had loaded up for him. He proclaimed they were "hot" loads and really pushed the velocity up. Since we were shooting from the same table and because I'd like to stay healthy I said, "There is no such thing as hot loads, only safe and unsafe loads. Which do you have?". It really set my friend back and made him think. Maybe you should ask that of this guy next time you see him at the range.

[Nemsis]

Lol!!!

I bet he was shooting at 100yds too.

Maybe you should let him know that most gun are most accurate at the lower end of velocity.

[SpringOWeiler]

My 1st philosophy too shooting.
People can reload and shoot their rifles how ever they want too. It's their rifle, brass, bullets, etc.
Mind your own business.
I mean this sincerely. Mind your own business

[Nemsis]

Sounds good until you get hit in the eye from his shrapnel

[AllenJ]

Sounds good until you get hit in the eye from his shrapnel

+1

[YARDDOG(1)]

"Sounds good until you get hit in the eye from his shrapnel"


That's why we wear eye protection
Y/D

[SpringOWeiler]

That's pretty hard, and that uses the same logic of reasoning as the anti-gunners "why should you be allowed to own firearms when you could "possibly" have a delinquent discharge that shoots somebody by accident." Don't be hypocritical.

[Nemsis]

Notifiying or stopping someone from actually doing something dangerous is logical.

[SpringOWeiler]

Dangerous is a grey term. Firearms are designed with a system of failures. Primer first, than casing, than barrel, than action. Like i said it's pretty difficult to actually blow up an action. There are many examples of a 30-06 being shoved in a 270. The case welds onto the bolt fact but the action survives and so does the barrel. The only barrel detonations i can see are from using 8mm JS bullets in 8mm J barrels. But that's a .008" bullet diameter in a rifle made in a country with shoddy metallurgical knowledge and manufacturing capabilities. On top of a 80+ yr old rifle.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Notifiying or stopping someone from actually doing something dangerous is logical.

This load is exceedingly unlikely to blow up a gun and it (obviously) is not going to blow up his gun.

[Nick_C_S]

Because fireballs are fun! 180xtp 44mag 32gr H110

Yes, I used to load something very close to the same (except with a Sierra 180g JHC; and W296). I also loaded a 110g flamethrower for my 357 Mag too. With it, the W296 pretty much filled the case up to the mouth. Those were good times.

I'm over it now.

It is true: the beauty of it all is that we get to load as we please. Speaking personally, I feel like my loading bench is my last bastion of pure freedom. That said, I don't hot rod rounds anymore. I see no point in it ("I" being the operative word there).

In terms of accuracy, experience has told me that as you move through the range of a loading, there are several points that are accurate, and then not so much. For instance: with my 200g LSWC loading for 45ACP. . It's accurate at 4.6g (W231); then seems to get bullet drift around 4.8g; then gets accurate again at 5.0g; then seems to drift around again at 5.2g and above. Just my observation. It doesn't seem to be the case where it's accurate a either the high end or low end - there's numerous points. If that made any sense.

[reynolds357]

I have never seen a rifle blow up from a "hot load." I have seen rifles destroyed by loading with the wrong powder, but never a "hot load." In all actuality, the bolt is going to be so sticky that it will be impractical to load hot enough to blow up your rifle.

[bfoosh006]

Because not everyone follows the recommendations of the powder manufacturers... you know the trained, very well equipped people that produce load data for us less then even close to as well equipped to measure pressures in our firearms people.

I will agree ... To each his own.... but I will not tolerate reckless people doing their foolish BS next to me. Go to the other end of the range and have your SNAFU I say. And don't put other people at risk knowingly.

And just so some don't think I am a Safety Nut, I do skydive, have ridden motorcycles for decades and do strongly believe in Superchargers ! Lol

[iraiam]

I was once shooting, doing a load workup to max with a 30-06.

The guy next to me starting asking pointed snarky questions about my powder and load. I told him to mind his own .

[riverratt]

Why? Because i can.

In all reality when i buy a new gun, powder, bullet, i like to know the real max load for my gun. That was i can make a note and know exactly how close i am to danger.

When i was alot younger i wanted to see how hot i can load my 06. I then rented a cronogragh at the range and started shooting. I had started with a known safe load under a 180gr bullet and worked up. On a hot august day i was able to get just over 3000fps befor the bolt was just to sticky for me. I still have 1 of thoes loads in a glass case that says for emergancy use only just for laughs. (Or pehaps as a reminder of how stupid i was)

[Clark]

I don't who's on first, but my jug of Varget is on the same page as my Quickload program.

To make my jug of H4350 agree with the chrono and the threshold of loose primer pockets, I have to tell Quickload I am using 4% less than I am really using. I don't know if my jug is slow or the QL library is fast.

But with MY jug of Varget and 46.7 gr and 168 gr SMK and 2.8" OAL, that would be a starting load, I would probably find short brass life at 48 gr and wind up backing off to ~ 46.7 gr for a dependable load to make more of.

[Jimro]

Clark,

It could be your lot is slow AND the QL library is fast. If the "median" is 2% between the two data points that would explain the 4% difference you note.

Of course that is assuming all the other factors line up :P

As far that charge of Varget goes, I bet it does produce great groups from virgin brass. More than one Varget user I know goes above max charge for that very reason.

Jimro

[44 AMP]

If you want to redline the tach, and dump the clutch when the light changes, in YOUR car, its your business.

And you can pay to get it fixed when it breaks.

Crash into me, or even think of doing it in my car, and its not just your business anymore.

Remember that book "max" is NOT a failure point for anything they used in testing. It is LESS than that.

I've loaded some hotter than recommended, especially considering the range of data you can use for reference, some much more conservative than others.

If it gives me no problems, and the desired results, I use the load. VERY rarely have I found a hot load to give me everything I was after. Usually I get better accuracy and consistency at less than max levels.

And what works best overall in one gun may not be the best thing in the very next one off the production line in the very same caliber.