Lehigh Controlled chaos bullets

Grant 14 · October 17, 2022, 12:56 PM

I just ordered .257 102 gr Controlled Chaos bullets to load for my 257 Roberts. None lead .257 bullets are hard to find, but these were available and they expand at a slightly less velocity than most bullets which is fine for the mild old Roberts. The Lehigh site has lots of load data for their bullets EXCEPT for .257. Can lead reloading data be used for copper bullets? Does anyone know if there is loading data for copper bullets on some other site. I am not finding much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Grant.

sako2 · October 17, 2022, 01:05 PM

Nosler has data for their e-tip bullet which is all copper.

taylorce1 · October 17, 2022, 10:51 PM

Lehigh will probably help you with some data if you send an email. They probably have a program like Quick Load that can extrapolate some data that would get you going.

**44 AMP** · October 18, 2022, 01:28 AM

There are two points about the all copper bullets which CAN render data for standard bullets incorrect.

First, having no lead core, the all copper will not compress exactly the same and this can change the pressure.

Second, and more importantly, being all copper the same weight is LONGER than a lead core bullet and that can mean a longer bearing surface, which can change the pressure.

The maker should have SOME data but might not publish it. Ask them for help. IF you can't load and use their bullets, you aren't going to buy any more of them, right???

**Unclenick** · October 18, 2022, 09:23 AM

Hodgdon's online load data includes 257 Roberts data for Accurate powders for the 100-grain Barnes TSX, which is a copper solid.

Shadow9mm · October 18, 2022, 10:30 AM

+1, if i cant find data for copper bullets i substitute barnes bullets

Grant 14 · October 19, 2022, 11:16 PM

Unclenick, I looked at the Hodgdon site and it has good information, but it only lists Accurate powder for the copper Barns bullets.
I have IMR 4064 that I hope to use. Looking lower on the site for lead bullets it shows Hodgdon and IMR 4064 but not Accurate, so I cant get any indication of comparison charges between the powders.
I really dont want to be guessing. Is there any comparison charts for similar powders? I looked again at the Lehigh site and it says that they dont give out information on anything that they are not currently showing. I am open to suggestions???

sako2 · October 20, 2022, 06:49 AM

Nosler start with imr4064 is 34gn and a max of 38gn.

Shadow9mm · October 20, 2022, 06:52 AM

So one option. Use the jbm bullet length chart. Find a similar bullet which will be heavier to match length. Then split the difference in data from the correct weight and the heavy bullet for load data to compensate for the length.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballis.../lengths.shtml

Were there any particular powders you were wanting to use?

**Unclenick** · October 20, 2022, 04:06 PM

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Grant14,

There is load data on the Barnes site. Accurate 4064 is meant to compete with IMR 4064, but both QuickLOAD and GRT suggest it is a little slower; to the tune of maybe a couple of grains in the 257 Bob with a 100-grain copper bullet, so you should be able to take a couple of grains off the Accurate 4064 loads at Hodgdon to use with the IMR 4064 as a starting point. So, where the Accurate 4064 starting load at Hodgdon is 35.1 grains, you want to start with 33.1 grains of the IMR product and work up toward 37 grains, which is two grains below Hodgdon's 39-grain maximum listing for the Accurate version. If you get there safely, the computer software suggests you could go up another 0.8 grains, but I wouldn't go there unless some sort of real need is involved.

Grant 14 · October 21, 2022, 10:04 AM

OK, That seems to make sense to me. I will load up a few and look for for pressure signs. I have no interest in loading anything to the max. The deer on my property rarely get very big so I dont need a shoulder cannon. I hunted for years with a 25-35 carbine but the open sights are not good for old eyes. Unclenick, Thank you.

October 17, 2022, 12:56 PM	#1
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	Lehigh Controlled chaos bullets I just ordered .257 102 gr Controlled Chaos bullets to load for my 257 Roberts. None lead .257 bullets are hard to find, but these were available and they expand at a slightly less velocity than most bullets which is fine for the mild old Roberts. The Lehigh site has lots of load data for their bullets EXCEPT for .257. Can lead reloading data be used for copper bullets? Does anyone know if there is loading data for copper bullets on some other site. I am not finding much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Grant.

October 17, 2022, 01:05 PM	#2
sako2 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2009 Posts: 741	Nosler has data for their e-tip bullet which is all copper. Last edited by sako2; October 17, 2022 at 01:12 PM.

October 17, 2022, 10:51 PM	#3
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,250	Lehigh will probably help you with some data if you send an email. They probably have a program like Quick Load that can extrapolate some data that would get you going. __________________ NRA Life Member

October 18, 2022, 01:28 AM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,871	There are two points about the all copper bullets which CAN render data for standard bullets incorrect. First, having no lead core, the all copper will not compress exactly the same and this can change the pressure. Second, and more importantly, being all copper the same weight is LONGER than a lead core bullet and that can mean a longer bearing surface, which can change the pressure. The maker should have SOME data but might not publish it. Ask them for help. IF you can't load and use their bullets, you aren't going to buy any more of them, right??? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 18, 2022, 09:23 AM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Hodgdon's online load data includes 257 Roberts data for Accurate powders for the 100-grain Barnes TSX, which is a copper solid. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 18, 2022, 10:30 AM	#6
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,978	+1, if i cant find data for copper bullets i substitute barnes bullets __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

October 19, 2022, 11:16 PM	#7
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	Unclenick, I looked at the Hodgdon site and it has good information, but it only lists Accurate powder for the copper Barns bullets. I have IMR 4064 that I hope to use. Looking lower on the site for lead bullets it shows Hodgdon and IMR 4064 but not Accurate, so I cant get any indication of comparison charges between the powders. I really dont want to be guessing. Is there any comparison charts for similar powders? I looked again at the Lehigh site and it says that they dont give out information on anything that they are not currently showing. I am open to suggestions???

October 20, 2022, 06:49 AM	#8
sako2 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2009 Posts: 741	Nosler start with imr4064 is 34gn and a max of 38gn.

October 20, 2022, 06:52 AM	#9
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,978	So one option. Use the jbm bullet length chart. Find a similar bullet which will be heavier to match length. Then split the difference in data from the correct weight and the heavy bullet for load data to compensate for the length. https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballis.../lengths.shtml Were there any particular powders you were wanting to use? __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; October 20, 2022 at 07:03 AM.

October 20, 2022, 04:06 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information. Grant14, There is load data on the Barnes site. Accurate 4064 is meant to compete with IMR 4064, but both QuickLOAD and GRT suggest it is a little slower; to the tune of maybe a couple of grains in the 257 Bob with a 100-grain copper bullet, so you should be able to take a couple of grains off the Accurate 4064 loads at Hodgdon to use with the IMR 4064 as a starting point. So, where the Accurate 4064 starting load at Hodgdon is 35.1 grains, you want to start with 33.1 grains of the IMR product and work up toward 37 grains, which is two grains below Hodgdon's 39-grain maximum listing for the Accurate version. If you get there safely, the computer software suggests you could go up another 0.8 grains, but I wouldn't go there unless some sort of real need is involved. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 21, 2022, 10:04 AM	#11
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	OK, That seems to make sense to me. I will load up a few and look for for pressure signs. I have no interest in loading anything to the max. The deer on my property rarely get very big so I dont need a shoulder cannon. I hunted for years with a 25-35 carbine but the open sights are not good for old eyes. Unclenick, Thank you.