Don't laugh - Qs about an AR to buy

[FITASC]

Yes, that's me - last AR I owned was 30 years ago; went to my youngest over 20 years ago. My screen name is an international org for sporting clays, so that is where my knowledge lies.

So I am in the market for dependable SHTF level AR - I am NOT going to drop over $1K (but up to that is OK); I am LH so an ambi safety is a must. I am not interested in building one from parts as I can't cut a straight line with a chop saw (a man has to know his limitations)

Saw some from PSA that might do, but there are SO many folks making these now, I thought I would you experts to steer me in the right direction for this. Gas vs DI? don't know, you get the idea, so a little help before it gets real

TIA!

[Lurch37]

My first question would be if your interested in a Left Handed AR? If so, Stag Arms makes dedicated Left Hand Models that get good reviews.

[FITASC]

Not if the cost is significantly more - I shoot RH handguns, bolt actions and even some semis (rimfire and shotgun) with no issues but I do not use the safeties on those

[Forte S+W]

If you're buying new, then the Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II is tough to beat, but if you want to really save money than PSA, Aero, and Bear Creek Arsenal make extremely cheap ARs which still go boom when you pull the trigger.

If you're willing to buy used, then you can get some crazy good deals on police trade-in ARs.

Back in July I ordered a police trade-in Smith & Wesson M&P15X for $556, which is a killer deal considering that the M&P15X had an MSRP of $1379.99 back in the day, so I got one of their top-tier ARs of years passed for less than the cost of a brand new entry level M&P15 Sport II.

[jetinteriorguy]

I’ve been satisfied with both PSA and Aeroprecision products. I’m not a super high volume shooter with my rifles but I have a few thousand rounds through them and have had great performance from them. Of the two I feel Aeroprecision is a little nicer product but functionally not significantly better. My SHTF rifle has a PSA upper with a 16” govt profile carbine length barrel made by FN, it’s a machine gun steel barrel with a chrome bore and I’m mating it with a Zero Fail bolt and carrier. I’ve tested it for 500 rounds in one session with several mag dumps without any lube and it exhibited no failures to cycle. It’s a solid MOA rifle and nice and light to carry.

[stagpanther]

Really depends what you mean by SHTF reliable.

[jmr40]

It isn't terribly hard for a lefty to operate the safety on an AR. Some don't care for empty brass flying in front of their face, but I know several guys who shoot right-handed ARs from the left side. They don't have an issue. Lots of lefties in the military and they don't issue left-handed guns to them.

There are lots of right-handed options. If you must have a left-handed gun I think you're going to limit yourself to the high-end rifles.

For someone who isn't into putting together rifles from components Smith & Wesson and Ruger are top choices. PSA is another. I'm partial to Ruger, but the fact is that there are a lot of decent AR's now in the $700 price range.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by FITASC

I am LH so an ambi safety is a must. I am not interested in building one from parts as I can't cut a straight line with a chop saw (a man has to know his limitations)

I am going to suggest that you revisit that as to the lower. It doesn't take specialized tools to build a lower and as a leftie an aftermarket ambidextrous safety on an inexpensive lower will serve you and leave more money for the upper.

If I can build a lower from parts, almost anyone can.

Originally Posted by FITASC

I am LH so an ambi safety is a must. I am not interested in building one from parts as I can't cut a straight line with a chop saw (a man has to know his limitations) I am NOT going to drop over $1K (but up to that is OK)

I don't profess to be an expert in your preferences, but I'd prioritize a $1000 budget without any upper assembly as follows.

Lower
Anderson Manufacturing closed trigger lower $50
Palmetto State EPT lower build kit (uses a polished GI sort of trigger) $80
Shipping and FFL transfer $40
TOTAL $170

You could also get a lower build kit without a trigger for $70 and shop for a nicer trigger. I like Hiperfire EDT triggers and those are generally less than $100. That's a total of $220.

If you are OK with a heavy and rough trigger, a Palmetto State complete lower for less than $150 could make sense. Changing the safety would be easy enough.

With the remainder of $780-ish to $830 you can pursue a lot of assembled uppers I'd consider pricey but that should have good barrels. The range of choices is bewildering. I recently used a Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrel. It isn't heavy but groups Black Hills 55gr so well I had difficulty counting my hits at 50 yards through my 6x scope. It is sold in a 16" configuration assembled. https://www.opticsplanet.com/ballist...BATL-BAUR10006 You'd still have to buy a BCG and charging handle, but maybe you would find a CH you like as a leftie, and you'd still be under $1,000.


I will note that if you have any friends who offer to show you how to build an upper on their tools, you should take them up on it. I declined several offers like that a long time ago because I thought the process would be complex and I'd be a frustrating student. I shouldn't have. It takes someone else's bench vise (or maybe you already have one) and is simple.

The advantage to you is in the ability to select the components you value most. To me, the best value is any in spec forged 7075 upper receiver and a $50 one is no worse than a $175 one. I like a free floated handguard, but a $250 handguard isn't going to have me shooting any better than a $70 one. People spend a lot of money on muzzle devices, but a $6 A2 protects the threads on my barrel well enough, and I don't care to fire side discharging brakes around others anyway.

The important parts for me are the trigger, barrel and safety.

You may come to different conclusions, but I hope some part of that was helpful.

[rickyrick]

As usual, I’m late to this party but this is one of the best times to get into ARs.
Also like others say, building a lower is pretty simple with the trickiest part being the pin that holds the bolt catch in; which I usually install with a pair of channel-locks with the tip wrapped in black tape, I’ve done it enough that I can just squeeze it right in.
The only other issue is the castle nut for the buffer tube, but there’s AR specific wrenches that serve several purposes for cheap, I’ve even loaned mine out.

I would argue that assembling an upper is even easier, but you will need a vice. All upper hand guard and barrel nut combinations aren’t as cut and dried, some are easier than others.
That being said SHTF capable complete uppers are pretty good prices right now.

Build or buy now, doesn’t really matter, you will probably end up modding your gun, I have a box of milspec triggers and other odds and ends to attest to that fact.

[rickyrick]

Oh and if you do go with a milspec’ish trigger, CMMG is the best “stock” trigger hands down.

[MarkCO]

It's hard to find a junk AR these days. The bad ones get rooted out pretty fast. I have several with a variety of triggers and parts and while precision does take some effort and knowledge to get the right parts put together the right way, its not needed for the guy who is not trying to get to 1/2 MOA or better.

Yes, PSA is fine. I bought a cheap PSA upper for the kid's partner to use in the SAC. 16" 5.56 1:7 twist Nitrided barrel, complete PSA upper with a full mass BCG and FH (they don't want to run comps...dirt, and they shoot off their backpacks). Anyway, I put a DNZ one piece scope mount on it with a Burris Signature HD 2-10 scope and slapped it on an old lower I had laying around with a JP trigger in it. It did not run my low powered 55 fmjs, which pleased me as it will be shooting 69 SMKs and told me it was not WAY overgassed. Had him practice with it a few times, got him dialed in. Waited for a calm morning and sighted in for 100 yards. Taught a CCW class and after that took it to the LD range. 100 yards, 3 shots gave me a group judt under 1". Then I went out to the KYL plate rack at 400. 5 plates, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4 inches, holding the 10mph wind dot in the reticle (9-11 mph winds). I missed the 2nd shot on the 6, so I nudged it just a little more into the wind and got a 2nd round on the 6 and 1st round on the 4. 69g SMKs with a MV of 2627fps ave. Near as I can tell, it's under 1MOA.

It is as accurate as what I shoot, the Stretch16 with a Burris RT15 on top in a Warne mount? Nope. The groups I was getting were about 40% larger, the SD was about twice, but dang if the budget precision carbine (just a little over $1K complete) was not significantly better than I hoped. I would have been okay with 1.5MOA for a beater carbine. The only really "high end" component in the whole rig is the JP trigger.

If you put a Holosun RDS on that upper, it would be a good, reliable carbine for under your $1K budget. A CMC trigger in a lower, or a lower with an upgraded trigger will make you happier, and from what I know of you and your preferences, strongly suggest you avoid the mil-spec trigger.

Stag and Aero are both decent, a little upgrade over PSA, but doubt you see any difference with bulk 55 grain ammo.

This is the upper I have from them: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...per-w-bcg.html

Complete rifle: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165450254.html

CMC triggers have been on sale as low as $99 a few places. Pull out the mil-spec trigger and drop in the CMC (very simple drop in) and get the Holosun of your choice.

I assume you know I make the Stretch16 barrels and uppers, and while they are great, the $900 to $1100 for the uppers I build really are aimed at folks shooting them in competition out past 500 yards, want the flattest shooting and best accuracy.

[berettaprofessor]

Stag also sells "left" safety levers. I use them almost exclusively because the "ambi" safeties I've tried irritate my left hand grip.

Seems they're out of stock, but you can email CS and ask to be put on the list: https://www.stagarms.com/catalog/pro...ed/category/2/

https://www.stagarms.com/catalog/pro...ed/category/2/

[rickyrick]

One of my favorite go-to guns was once a PSA carbine kit. The kind that has a complete upper and a lower parts kit. It was the kind that had the FN CHF machine gun barrels that they advertised at the time, I don’t recall the name that they marketed them as.

The lower has been completely reworked and the only components that remain are the pistol grip, the pins and the lower itself. It now has a Geissele 2 stage trigger, A2 stock.
It’s a little weird looking but a handy little gun nonetheless.





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[44 AMP]

The first question that needs to be answered is, do you live somewhere you can legally buy and own an AR (or other "semi auto assault rifle")??

The state I live in used to be, but now isn't.

[FITASC]

Forte S+W

If you're willing to buy used, then you can get some crazy good deals on police trade-in ARs.

Where would I look?
TIA!

[FITASC]

44AMP - I am in Florida - ARs, full auto, etc. all good in this state

[FITASC]

Stag Panther -

Really depends what you mean by SHTF reliable

It isn't going to jam, break, or FTF when I need it for a life-saving situation.

Again, I am not into massive amounts of ammo (enough t train, but not competition) or long range stuff - if I have to reach out and touch someone, my 7mag will do that

[FITASC]

zukiphile - lots of good info - thanks!

[rickyrick]

The tried and true 16-20in AR .223/5.56/.223Wylde with DI gas system is the way to go. Currently enough ammunition is around to train with. About as reliable as you can get in a semiautomatic, stray too far away from those parameters and they can get finicky.

[zukiphile]

FWIW, a complete assembled billet lower for $132.

https://kakindustry.com/complete-k15...eiver-m4-stock Use code 2024.

For $3 less, I would prefer the Palmetto State complete lower just because I prefer forged over billet.

[Shadow9mm]

$475 16 in DI gun, This one from PSA looks like a pretty good deal https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem...ail-black.html

$120, Sig Romeo 5 red dot https://palmettostatearmory.com/sig-...ck-r52001.html

$38, magpul backup front sight https://palmettostatearmory.com/magp...g1166-blk.html

$57, Magpul backup rear sight https://palmettostatearmory.com/magp...g1167-blk.html

$100 for a flashlight. https://palmettostatearmory.com/stre...ght-88058.html


Grand total $789, + S&H. Leaves some room for some extra mags (magpul mags are great) and ammo. or a magnifier. heres an interesting video on ar Optics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL3MJvmDmvE

$499, this one is in stock. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...-rail-fde.html or you could wait for a sale.

Other considerations. Parts wear out and break, even on the best rifles. These are the parts id reccomend keeping spares of. Most important and cheapest first.
Buffer spring
Optic battery
Firing pin
Bolt gas rings
Bolt head
Barrel and tools to channge it.

[FrankenMauser]

If you watch PSA's daily deals for long enough, you'll see basic, no frills, good enough for the purpose rifles show up for $400 or less. It may take until Easter or Memorial day, but it'll happen again.
If you're willing to buy an upper and lower separately, the set can (usually) be completed more quickly.
Generally, you'll see uppers and lowers within any given 4-6 week span, that can be put together for about $350. However, you'll probably end up paying more for shipping, because they aren't always available at the same time.

Ambi safety is trickier. They are present on some PSA products, but generally not the rock bottom stuff.
But, of course, they're easy to buy separately and install yourself. And that is what I would plan on.
But, I have built every AR that I own. They're tinker toys at this point.

[FrankenMauser]

$475 16 in DI gun, This one from PSA looks like a pretty good deal

That one shows out of stock now.
But I did see a daily deal for something similar, for $416.
Perfectly adequate for the job. Just add sights or optic and start shooting.
Add accessories from there, with experience to guide what is desired.

[stagpanther]

FITASC--How close are you to Ocala? If it's not too far, I highly recommend taking a ride to Core rifles--they are right next to I75 and easy on/off the highway. They operate under the umbrella of a business that makes gator traps and fanboats, a bit odd--but hey it's Florida and everything is weird to me there. I haven't been there in many years, but I bought an AR from them soon after they opened as Core 15. It came with a "no-nonsense, no questions asked lifetime guarantee." At the time, they were staffed by vets and led by the lead engineer from Bushmaster who bailed when they were bought out (and eventually destroyed by) the Freedom group. They gave me a factory tour and showed me everything, including their test range. At the time, their testing was done with the worst steel cased bulk factory ammo for functionality; that impressed me. I walked out of there with a run-of-the mill 16" AR, though I did have them install a Giselle super combat trigger for me. The one I got was a 7 twist chrome-lined barrel and it can still drill in M855 bulk penetrators at around 1 to 1.5" at 100 yds. Not quite a precision grade AR; but my rifle has had countless thousands of rounds through it (I'm guessing somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand), not only by myself, but friends who fancy themselves as weekend commando wannabees and just have to do mag dumps. Naturally, most people responding to your request on this thread are going to give you info based on their experiences/preferences, and I'm no exception. But I've used my Core 15 abusively and it's a tough SOB which I know will get the job done for me in a SHTF scenario. I have MANY other ARs that I've put together, some of which I know will likely be very reliable in a stress situation, but most of them are not 5.56 cartridges and are optimized for a particular load; so it's questionable just how reliable they might be when shooting ammo other than my hand-loads. Anywho, it might be worth visiting Core if for no ther reason than to get a factory tour and gather info.

[zukiphile]

I'm not a fan of 16" carbine gas length barrels, but if someone just wants to have a working rifle, for $369

https://www.primaryarms.com/anderson...31_48hour_Sale