Home Defense Gun: Shotgun vs Lever Action Rifle

MarineVaquero · May 6, 2020, 04:34 AM

I recently acquired a nice Winchester 94 in 30-30 that was passed down to me. I also have a 7.5 inch revolver chambered in 44 mag and a little NAA mini revolver in 22mag. Although I'm sure these revolvers would do the job protecting my home, I'd still prefer a long gun. I know many people have said that a shotgun works best and I've recently found out about the Maverick 88 that can be had for less than $200. This seems like a good option to me but I've been reading about the effectiveness of the 30-30 round for both the four legged critters and the two legged ones that go bump in the night. My only concern would be over penetration since I do live in an apartment building. Alternatively, I also found a nice old Sears/Winchester 22mag rifle for a good price (similar to the maverick) which would be good since it could share the ammo with my NAA but it seems like many don't believe in the round's effectiveness. I'd like to get a rifle in 44 mag to go with my other revolver but really can't afford the price tag on most of those so I'm trying to decide between those three options. If I decide to use the 30-30 are there any rounds that will not go through walls so easily? What about the Browning BXR Rapid Expansion Matrix Tip?

jmr40 · May 6, 2020, 06:33 AM

Inside a home I still prefer a handgun. Things are too confined for most long guns, even shotguns or carbines with short 16-18" barrels. Something that can be used with one hand leaving the other free is a huge asset. If you have to shoot someone chances are good they will be in your face or only 2-3 feet away. Too easy for them to grab a long gun and push the barrel aside or take it away from you.

I'd be a little hesitant to use the 22 mag as my 1st choice, but both the 30-30 and 44 mag are more than adequate. As would a shotgun, but if you choose to go the shotgun route you want one with a shorter 18-20" barrel. The 30-30 would be my last choice for indoors, especially with over penetration concerns. Buckshot from a shotgun is bad about over penetrating too.

Of the options you own I'd buy some good quality 44 Special ammo and use the 44 Mag revolver. If I wanted to buy something a 3-4" DA revolver in 357 mag or the semi-auto of your choice in 9mm, 40, or 45 is the way I'd go.

bn12gg · May 6, 2020, 08:33 AM

Just me but my in home choice is a Browning BPR with 12g sport loads (that's plenty) and a SW M37 with wadcutters. In the car I carry a SW M64 .38 with hot loads.
I can't imagine using a centerfire rifle in my home.
.02

David

FAS1 · May 6, 2020, 09:54 AM

I have a Marlin 30AW in 30-30 that stays loaded with the safety on in my safe. In my home my handgun is primary since it's in a safe mounted to my bed frame. The rifle and 12GA (Beretta 1201FP) are available primarily for my wife as she would head that direction if needed. She would sit there, armed while calling 911. I really see very little chance to use the rifle in my home. She would use the 12GA.

Don Fischer · May 6, 2020, 10:10 AM

Problem is you live in an apartment. Anything that would shoot through a bad guy may well make a victim in the next apartment too. That wouldn't be good! Think I simply would not live in an apartment any longer than I had to. Cartridge in there? Wow. think I would develop a plan where I stayed in a room that a bullet would have to penetrate at least two walls to enter another apartment. Then I would not use a shotgun. A guy once told me that the impressive thing about a shotgun that makes the bad guy leave is the bad guy hiding on the other side of a fence and the shotgun take's out the fence. No I don't know that a shotgun can do that but the place to find out is not in your apartment hitting the wall between you and the neighbor's wall! I think I'd stick to no larger than a 9mm hand gun with a very short barrel. Idea f the short barrel would be to lessen velocity more. I'd also stick to a lighter bullet looking for less penetration!

You have a problem living in the apartment, your neighbor's are just onthe other side of a wall. Apartment wall's between apartment's consist of a 2x4 stud wall on 16" centers. Insulation of some kind and 1/2" wall board on either side of the wall. On the other hand, an exterior wall will have the 2x4 stud wall, 1/2' wall bard inside, insulation in the wall, probably 1/2" plywood sheeting outside the wall and some kind of siding over that. The outside wall will do a lot better job of stopping a bullet from most gun's but still may not!

I think the thing to do in an apartment might be to think about noise maker's inside that would alert you to an intruder. You'd need something on the window's and something on the door. My idea is that making a bunch of noise entering a home will shoo the attacker off before any shooting start's. The noisemaker and some kind of deal where when tripped, light's come on everywhere.

I recall one time in Colorado I was n an apartment and the people next door were playing music very loud. I knocked on the wall but doubt they heard it. So I knocked harder. About the third time harder still and put my fist through both walls! Shut the noise down right now. Point being walls between apartment's are pretty easy to penetrate!

Mongo_Bongo · May 6, 2020, 11:56 AM

"If I decide to use the 30-30 are there any rounds that will not go through walls so easily?"
No. Any round with enough sack to put down a gremlin will go through a wall. You'll get other opinions but they are wrong. My HD gun is a 12 gauge with #1 buck. 16 pellets with sufficient cross-sectional density to go deep.

MarineVaquero · May 6, 2020, 01:13 PM

I heard birdshot penetrates less than buckshot and can still put a hurtin on a bad guy. Paul Harrell did a video on YouTube about this. What are your thoughts on that?

cslinger · May 6, 2020, 01:19 PM

Bird shot is for birds. I have a TINY bit of practical knowledge about this from a previous life(job).

We saw birdshot get used quite a few times and never was it anything more then psychologically stopping. As in if you get shot by anything you will probably want to leave the zip code.

00-#4 is was basically a DRT kind of thing. A center mass hit with any reasonably sized buck seemed to be devastating.

Just food for thought.

Now that said who has two thumbs and doesn't want a face full of birdshot.......pretty much everybody but I wouldn't want to rely on it myself.

Not going to wade into the rifle vs shotgun vs pistol thing, simply because in my SUPER LIMITED experience what I learned/noticed was the biggest deciding factor was having a gun ANY GUN.

As far as penetration goes pretty much ANYTHING with any kind of practical ooomf is going to penetrate enough normal building materials to be dangerous to folks a couple sheets of drywall away. A thutty/thutty gonna ZIPPY DOO DAH right on through.

Chris

jetinteriorguy · May 6, 2020, 05:37 PM

I’d go with a high cap .22rf double action revolver and load it with solid point CCI MiniMags.

MarineVaquero · May 6, 2020, 07:14 PM

Just another thing to think about, there is so much ammo on the market today that many of the game loads such as the one I already mentioned are designed to create maximum damage to game without over penetrating. If it'll do that to a deer than I see no reason why it wouldn't perform similarly on a person. And since a rifle is more accurate than a handgun, I see no reason why I could not hit said target. Especially if it's something I practice regularly with and feel comfortable shooting. But I'll assume all of you knocking the "thuddy-thuddy" surely must have extensive experience shooting it and are probably experienced hunters as well. I am, despite my apartment living conditions in a semi-rural location. I grew up hunting and still do regularly.

jrothWA · May 6, 2020, 09:14 PM

home defense.
Given that I tende for either shotgun [with #4 buck] in a buttstock holder,
Marlin Model 60 with solid-nose 40 grs.,
sidearm from J-frame to K-frameand or 1911 semi's
or M1 Carbine with polished feed ramp to minimize stuttering of soft-nose amm, with three magazines.

jfruser · May 7, 2020, 10:02 AM

What you got will work. You can shoot .44spl in the revo and be plenty effective. The 7.5" bbl wil bump the velocity a bit. The .30-30 may be a bit much in an apartment, just from blast/noise/pressure effects and penetration. And .22 beats harsh language.

Nothing wrong with Mossbergs, though my go-to HD/SD shotguns run toward used Rem 870 police shootguns. If Mossberg Maverick is what you can afford, it will serve you well.

A 18-20" shotgun loaded with 000-4 buck will have less blast/noise and likely penetrate less than the .30-30.

Until then, might want to load up your.30-30 with the Remington Managed Recoil load:
https://www.remington.com/ammunition...managed-recoil
125gr@2150fps

Good luck with your decisions.

Sharkbite · May 7, 2020, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Until then, might want to load up your.30-30 with the Remington Managed Recoil load:
https://www.remington.com/ammunition...managed-recoil
125gr@2150fps

That just might be a winner

Right in the same ballistic window as 300 blackout. Lots of folks (including me) use 300blk for SD/HD. If you dont want to fork out the cash for a 12ga, a cpl boxes of this and some 44spl ammo will do you fine.

MarkCO · May 7, 2020, 02:22 PM

Everyone who is trying to decide on a specific firearm for defense needs to consider three things.

1. Having it readily available is better than locked in a safe.
2. Regular practice is imperative.
3. The environment of most probable use must be weighed against the 4 Laws of Gun Safety.

Yes, any gun is better than no gun, and probably better than a knife, but being comfortable with the chosen firearm involves all three of the points above. A single parent with young children living in the middle of nowhere is very different from a single adult living in a metro hi-rise. Penetration is an issue when one deems that there is really no way to be sure of the backstop and beyond with a higher power firearm, thus rounds need to stop in the walls of their residence. That is a tall order, and one that buckshot does better than others without the sacrifice of stopping power. But that stopping power wanes when you get past 10 yards if you are really using the proper loads to mitigate over-penetration.

I'd not consider a .30-30 for lots of reasons, noise, manual of arms, over-penetration. A .44 Magnum, loaded with decent .44 Spl. defense loads would be a decent option if you don't want to buy something. The rest leave too much to be desidred.

Scorch · May 7, 2020, 03:27 PM

Anyone who has ever fired a rifle or shotgun in a confined space will tell you it's not a good idea. Same with magnum handgun rounds. The pressure surge in your ears and sinuses can be . . . uncomfortable. Like nosebleed, disoriented, curled up on the floor uncomfortable. There's a reason SWAT teams use 9mm sub-guns. I would say a shotgun also fits into that category, although I have never tried that one. Overpenetration is also an important consideration when making a house gun decision. My advice (I am not a doctor, lawyer, an engineer, or a physicist) is pick a relatively mild handgun (32 ACP, 380 ACP, 38 Special, 9mm, 44 Special, 45ACP) and practice diligently to master the techniques of loading, using cover, firing, and relaoding in a confined area. This will reduce the dangers of overpenetration and make it so you can respond appropriately when the police arrive and tell you to drop the gun.

MarineVaquero · May 7, 2020, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorch

Anyone who has ever fired a rifle or shotgun in a confined space will tell you it's not a good idea. Same with magnum handgun rounds. The pressure surge in your ears and sinuses can be . . . uncomfortable. Like nosebleed, disoriented, curled up on the floor uncomfortable. There's a reason SWAT teams use 9mm sub-guns. I would say a shotgun also fits into that category, although I have never tried that one. Overpenetration is also an important consideration when making a house gun decision. My advice (I am not a doctor, lawyer, an engineer, or a physicist) is pick a relatively mild handgun (32 ACP, 380 ACP, 38 Special, 9mm, 44 Special, 45ACP) and practice diligently to master the techniques of loading, using cover, firing, and relaoding in a confined area. This will reduce the dangers of overpenetration and make it so you can respond appropriately when the police arrive and tell you to drop the gun.

As an alternative to the shotgun, I'm looking at a Marlin 94 in 44 mag. Both the marlin and my revolver would be loaded with 44 special of course. I feel most comfortable with the old school guns since I'm a bit of an enthusiast and that's what I shoot most often. I also consider them more reliable than any semi-auto and I don't need anything high capacity since I don't plan on a gun fight. My plan is simply to get my family all in the same room, lock the door and wait for the cops to arrive. I'll let them engage the perp. (that what they get paid the big bucks for anyway right?) I can use the revolver to get my family to safety and then use the long gun to cover the door. At that point I really don't care if it's a 30-30 cause it's going straight into the sumbitch's chest that comes through that door and I know many hunting rounds like I already said will break up and not over penetrate. Anyway, my 2¢/plan of attack

MarineVaquero · May 7, 2020, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

That just might be a winner

Right in the same ballistic window as 300 blackout. Lots of folks (including me) use 300blk for SD/HD. If you dont want to fork out the cash for a 12ga, a cpl boxes of this and some 44spl ammo will do you fine.

Thanks for this

FireForged · May 7, 2020, 04:57 PM

As a lone defender I would not want to rely on a long gun in confined spaces unless it was my ONLY option. Rifles and shotguns are not as wieldy as handguns and are certainly a greater problem to retain during a physical fight. I also do not want a long barrel to proceed every movement that I may have to take inside a dwelling.

MarineVaquero · May 7, 2020, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireForged

As a lone defender I would not want to rely on a long gun in confined spaces unless it was my ONLY option. Rifles and shotguns are not as wieldy as handguns and are certainly a greater problem to retain during a physical fight. I also do not want a long barrel to proceed every movement that I may have to take inside a dwelling.

Read two posts above, I also would argue that a long gun is superior to a handgun in all aspects. One can shoot more accurately with it and if need be it can make a good club for a close quarters engagement.

FireForged · May 7, 2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Read two posts above, I also would argue that a long gun is superior to a handgun in all aspects. One can shoot more accurately with it and if need be it can make a good club for a close quarters engagement.

Prevailing in a armed conflict inside a dwelling is not likely going to hinge on the relatively minor difference in absolute accuracy between a handgun and long guns ( at close range).

If you are going to ignore popular/conventional wisdom based on your feeling that a long gun makes a good clubbing weapon, I will simply wish you all the best.

If you have not trained in close quarters with a long gun, you might want to. It may highlight a few "issues" that you seemingly have not considered.

Good luck

MarineVaquero · May 7, 2020, 07:31 PM

I'm also surprised that a few of you are suggesting 22lr or 22 short while dismissing the 22 mag I suggested when 22 mag certainly has more stopping power than the other two. Especially considering it would be coming from a rifle, which has ballistics comparible to the 9mm round that others suggested.

dyl · May 7, 2020, 10:49 PM

Quote:

I'm also surprised that a few of you are suggesting 22lr or 22 short while dismissing the 22 mag I suggested

Are you thinking of this one by jetinteriorguy?

Quote:

I’d go with a high cap .22rf double action revolver and load it with solid point CCI MiniMags.

- what stands out to me in his suggestion is the high capacity and double action. Ruger LCR has an 8 shot 22LR, which can hold so many because the cylinder walls and distance between charging holes can be so thin/small given a low pressure round. Double Action is a very strong point to consider compared to any rifle unless the one you suggested is a semi-auto, for speed of follow up shots.

But if it came down to purchasing a new firearm geared towards home defense, I don't think many would suggest reaching for a rimfire or 22 mag as a first choice. By your post it seems like low price of the Sears/Winchester was a strong factor, not necessarily terminal performance.

I don't think 22 mag has the same performance as 9mm. Smaller diameter even if penetration in calibrated gelatin tests would be the same. Otherwise, the police departments and military should start saving money and buying 22 mag then. Well it's possible...

One thing important to remember is that you cannot assume you will have all the time a given scenario requires. You may not be woken up by a pounding at the door. In fact you may be woken up by being struck /stabbed first while sleeping. I would place dealing with an extremely close quarters emergency as first priority. As in the perpetrator is already in your room, already upon you. So I suggest something easy to access/secure, easy to wield, and can produce a high rate of fire from point shooting or contact distance, one handed. If the situation is more favorable (or less unfavorable), and you find you have the luxury of a threat that is still down the hallway or at the door, then great. But I suspect practice with 44 specials will get you more accuracy than you could ever want across an apartment hallway.

So of your choices, my vote is 44 special from the revolver.

MarineVaquero · May 8, 2020, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyl

Are you thinking of this one by jetinteriorguy?

- what stands out to me in his suggestion is the high capacity and double action. Ruger LCR has an 8 shot 22LR, which can hold so many because the cylinder walls and distance between charging holes can be so thin/small given a low pressure round. Double Action is a very strong point to consider compared to any rifle unless the one you suggested is a semi-auto, for speed of follow up shots.

But if it came down to purchasing a new firearm geared towards home defense, I don't think many would suggest reaching for a rimfire or 22 mag as a first choice. By your post it seems like low price of the Sears/Winchester was a strong factor, not necessarily terminal performance.

I don't think 22 mag has the same performance as 9mm. Smaller diameter even if penetration in calibrated gelatin tests would be the same. Otherwise, the police departments and military should start saving money and buying 22 mag then. Well it's possible...

One thing important to remember is that you cannot assume you will have all the time a given scenario requires. You may not be woken up by a pounding at the door. In fact you may be woken up by being struck /stabbed first while sleeping. I would place dealing with an extremely close quarters emergency as first priority. As in the perpetrator is already in your room, already upon you. So I suggest something easy to access/secure, easy to wield, and can produce a high rate of fire from point shooting or contact distance, one handed. If the situation is more favorable (or less unfavorable), and you find you have the luxury of a threat that is still down the hallway or at the door, then great. But I suspect practice with 44 specials will get you more accuracy than you could ever want across an apartment hallway.

So of your choices, my vote is 44 special from the revolver.

1. The rifle I suggested is a 10+1 capacity which is more than the revolver. 2. A lever cycled from the shoulder can be almost as fast as a semi in the hands of a practiced shooter and lever guns like revolvers are less prone to malfunction. 3. True, the 22 mag from a pistol is not the same as a 9mm from a pistol but a 22 mag from a rifle is in fact ballistically similar to a 9mm from a pistol. The reason police departments don't use them is because if you transition from pistol to rifle it's generally assumed you need the extra fire power. Not really the case in my situation.

jfruser · May 8, 2020, 08:58 AM

MV:

Before I built my wife her "hers" Rem 870 12ga HD shotgun, her HD long gun was a Rossi clone of the Winchester 92 in .44mag loaded with my mild (240gr@1000fps) hand load. Still have it, it is still viable, as is any lever gun chambered in .38spl on up. I prefer the Win92 clone over the Marlin 94, but if the Marlin 94 is what is available, no worries.

Scorch has a point, though exaggerated, regarding muzzle blast. It is rough indoors. Fall-on-the-ground is baloney, but hearing loss, tinnitus, and short term pain are real risks. BTDT. That, plus my other family members don't eat recoil as well as I, is why I cleave toward lower-pressure rounds for my loaded HD firearms. 12ga, .45ACP, .38spl std & +P. and a heavy .44spl/mild .44mag in the past.

SAMMI guidelines:
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm
http://randywakeman.com/shotgun_pressures.htm
12ga 11,500
.38spl 17,000
.38spl+P 18,500
.45ACP 21,000
.44spl 15,500
.30-30 42,000
.44mag 35,000
5.56 55,000
9x19 35,000

Longer barrels help mitigate against subjective muzzle blast, too.
https://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=445

2damnold4this · May 8, 2020, 10:11 AM

I think all home defense long guns would benefit from having a bright white light mounted to them. Of the choice between a Winchester in 30-30 and a Mossberg pump 12 gauge, I'd go with the shotgun.

May 6, 2020, 06:33 AM	#2
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	Inside a home I still prefer a handgun. Things are too confined for most long guns, even shotguns or carbines with short 16-18" barrels. Something that can be used with one hand leaving the other free is a huge asset. If you have to shoot someone chances are good they will be in your face or only 2-3 feet away. Too easy for them to grab a long gun and push the barrel aside or take it away from you. I'd be a little hesitant to use the 22 mag as my 1st choice, but both the 30-30 and 44 mag are more than adequate. As would a shotgun, but if you choose to go the shotgun route you want one with a shorter 18-20" barrel. The 30-30 would be my last choice for indoors, especially with over penetration concerns. Buckshot from a shotgun is bad about over penetrating too. Of the options you own I'd buy some good quality 44 Special ammo and use the 44 Mag revolver. If I wanted to buy something a 3-4" DA revolver in 357 mag or the semi-auto of your choice in 9mm, 40, or 45 is the way I'd go. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

May 6, 2020, 01:19 PM	#8
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	Bird shot is for birds. I have a TINY bit of practical knowledge about this from a previous life(job). We saw birdshot get used quite a few times and never was it anything more then psychologically stopping. As in if you get shot by anything you will probably want to leave the zip code. 00-#4 is was basically a DRT kind of thing. A center mass hit with any reasonably sized buck seemed to be devastating. Just food for thought. Now that said who has two thumbs and doesn't want a face full of birdshot.......pretty much everybody but I wouldn't want to rely on it myself. Not going to wade into the rifle vs shotgun vs pistol thing, simply because in my SUPER LIMITED experience what I learned/noticed was the biggest deciding factor was having a gun ANY GUN. As far as penetration goes pretty much ANYTHING with any kind of practical ooomf is going to penetrate enough normal building materials to be dangerous to folks a couple sheets of drywall away. A thutty/thutty gonna ZIPPY DOO DAH right on through. Chris __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

May 6, 2020, 09:14 PM	#11
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	All firearms in my house, are... home defense. Given that I tende for either shotgun [with #4 buck] in a buttstock holder, Marlin Model 60 with solid-nose 40 grs., sidearm from J-frame to K-frameand or 1911 semi's or M1 Carbine with polished feed ramp to minimize stuttering of soft-nose amm, with three magazines.

May 7, 2020, 10:02 AM	#12
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	What you got will work. You can shoot .44spl in the revo and be plenty effective. The 7.5" bbl wil bump the velocity a bit. The .30-30 may be a bit much in an apartment, just from blast/noise/pressure effects and penetration. And .22 beats harsh language. Nothing wrong with Mossbergs, though my go-to HD/SD shotguns run toward used Rem 870 police shootguns. If Mossberg Maverick is what you can afford, it will serve you well. A 18-20" shotgun loaded with 000-4 buck will have less blast/noise and likely penetrate less than the .30-30. Until then, might want to load up your.30-30 with the Remington Managed Recoil load: https://www.remington.com/ammunition...managed-recoil 125gr@2150fps Good luck with your decisions. __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

May 7, 2020, 02:22 PM	#14
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Everyone who is trying to decide on a specific firearm for defense needs to consider three things. 1. Having it readily available is better than locked in a safe. 2. Regular practice is imperative. 3. The environment of most probable use must be weighed against the 4 Laws of Gun Safety. Yes, any gun is better than no gun, and probably better than a knife, but being comfortable with the chosen firearm involves all three of the points above. A single parent with young children living in the middle of nowhere is very different from a single adult living in a metro hi-rise. Penetration is an issue when one deems that there is really no way to be sure of the backstop and beyond with a higher power firearm, thus rounds need to stop in the walls of their residence. That is a tall order, and one that buckshot does better than others without the sacrifice of stopping power. But that stopping power wanes when you get past 10 yards if you are really using the proper loads to mitigate over-penetration. I'd not consider a .30-30 for lots of reasons, noise, manual of arms, over-penetration. A .44 Magnum, loaded with decent .44 Spl. defense loads would be a decent option if you don't want to buy something. The rest leave too much to be desidred. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 6, 2020, 04:34 AM	#1
MarineVaquero Member Join Date: March 12, 2013 Posts: 51	Home Defense Gun: Shotgun vs Lever Action Rifle I recently acquired a nice Winchester 94 in 30-30 that was passed down to me. I also have a 7.5 inch revolver chambered in 44 mag and a little NAA mini revolver in 22mag. Although I'm sure these revolvers would do the job protecting my home, I'd still prefer a long gun. I know many people have said that a shotgun works best and I've recently found out about the Maverick 88 that can be had for less than $200. This seems like a good option to me but I've been reading about the effectiveness of the 30-30 round for both the four legged critters and the two legged ones that go bump in the night. My only concern would be over penetration since I do live in an apartment building. Alternatively, I also found a nice old Sears/Winchester 22mag rifle for a good price (similar to the maverick) which would be good since it could share the ammo with my NAA but it seems like many don't believe in the round's effectiveness. I'd like to get a rifle in 44 mag to go with my other revolver but really can't afford the price tag on most of those so I'm trying to decide between those three options. If I decide to use the 30-30 are there any rounds that will not go through walls so easily? What about the Browning BXR Rapid Expansion Matrix Tip?

May 6, 2020, 08:33 AM	#3
bn12gg Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Winter Park, Florida Posts: 470	Just me but my in home choice is a Browning BPR with 12g sport loads (that's plenty) and a SW M37 with wadcutters. In the car I carry a SW M64 .38 with hot loads. I can't imagine using a centerfire rifle in my home. .02 David

May 6, 2020, 09:54 AM	#4
FAS1 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 541	I have a Marlin 30AW in 30-30 that stays loaded with the safety on in my safe. In my home my handgun is primary since it's in a safe mounted to my bed frame. The rifle and 12GA (Beretta 1201FP) are available primarily for my wife as she would head that direction if needed. She would sit there, armed while calling 911. I really see very little chance to use the rifle in my home. She would use the 12GA. __________________ *Glenn* *FAS1 SAFE*

May 6, 2020, 10:10 AM	#5
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Problem is you live in an apartment. Anything that would shoot through a bad guy may well make a victim in the next apartment too. That wouldn't be good! Think I simply would not live in an apartment any longer than I had to. Cartridge in there? Wow. think I would develop a plan where I stayed in a room that a bullet would have to penetrate at least two walls to enter another apartment. Then I would not use a shotgun. A guy once told me that the impressive thing about a shotgun that makes the bad guy leave is the bad guy hiding on the other side of a fence and the shotgun take's out the fence. No I don't know that a shotgun can do that but the place to find out is not in your apartment hitting the wall between you and the neighbor's wall! I think I'd stick to no larger than a 9mm hand gun with a very short barrel. Idea f the short barrel would be to lessen velocity more. I'd also stick to a lighter bullet looking for less penetration! You have a problem living in the apartment, your neighbor's are just onthe other side of a wall. Apartment wall's between apartment's consist of a 2x4 stud wall on 16" centers. Insulation of some kind and 1/2" wall board on either side of the wall. On the other hand, an exterior wall will have the 2x4 stud wall, 1/2' wall bard inside, insulation in the wall, probably 1/2" plywood sheeting outside the wall and some kind of siding over that. The outside wall will do a lot better job of stopping a bullet from most gun's but still may not! I think the thing to do in an apartment might be to think about noise maker's inside that would alert you to an intruder. You'd need something on the window's and something on the door. My idea is that making a bunch of noise entering a home will shoo the attacker off before any shooting start's. The noisemaker and some kind of deal where when tripped, light's come on everywhere. I recall one time in Colorado I was n an apartment and the people next door were playing music very loud. I knocked on the wall but doubt they heard it. So I knocked harder. About the third time harder still and put my fist through both walls! Shut the noise down right now. Point being walls between apartment's are pretty easy to penetrate!

May 6, 2020, 11:56 AM	#6
Mongo_Bongo Member Join Date: August 11, 2018 Posts: 41	"If I decide to use the 30-30 are there any rounds that will not go through walls so easily?" No. Any round with enough sack to put down a gremlin will go through a wall. You'll get other opinions but they are wrong. My HD gun is a 12 gauge with #1 buck. 16 pellets with sufficient cross-sectional density to go deep.

May 6, 2020, 01:13 PM	#7
MarineVaquero Member Join Date: March 12, 2013 Posts: 51	I heard birdshot penetrates less than buckshot and can still put a hurtin on a bad guy. Paul Harrell did a video on YouTube about this. What are your thoughts on that?

May 6, 2020, 05:37 PM	#9
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	I’d go with a high cap .22rf double action revolver and load it with solid point CCI MiniMags.

May 6, 2020, 07:14 PM	#10
MarineVaquero Member Join Date: March 12, 2013 Posts: 51	Just another thing to think about, there is so much ammo on the market today that many of the game loads such as the one I already mentioned are designed to create maximum damage to game without over penetrating. If it'll do that to a deer than I see no reason why it wouldn't perform similarly on a person. And since a rifle is more accurate than a handgun, I see no reason why I could not hit said target. Especially if it's something I practice regularly with and feel comfortable shooting. But I'll assume all of you knocking the "thuddy-thuddy" surely must have extensive experience shooting it and are probably experienced hunters as well. I am, despite my apartment living conditions in a semi-rural location. I grew up hunting and still do regularly.

May 7, 2020, 03:27 PM	#15
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Anyone who has ever fired a rifle or shotgun in a confined space will tell you it's not a good idea. Same with magnum handgun rounds. The pressure surge in your ears and sinuses can be . . . uncomfortable. Like nosebleed, disoriented, curled up on the floor uncomfortable. There's a reason SWAT teams use 9mm sub-guns. I would say a shotgun also fits into that category, although I have never tried that one. Overpenetration is also an important consideration when making a house gun decision. My advice (I am not a doctor, lawyer, an engineer, or a physicist) is pick a relatively mild handgun (32 ACP, 380 ACP, 38 Special, 9mm, 44 Special, 45ACP) and practice diligently to master the techniques of loading, using cover, firing, and relaoding in a confined area. This will reduce the dangers of overpenetration and make it so you can respond appropriately when the police arrive and tell you to drop the gun. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 7, 2020, 04:57 PM	#18
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	As a lone defender I would not want to rely on a long gun in confined spaces unless it was my ONLY option. Rifles and shotguns are not as wieldy as handguns and are certainly a greater problem to retain during a physical fight. I also do not want a long barrel to proceed every movement that I may have to take inside a dwelling. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; May 7, 2020 at 05:04 PM.

May 7, 2020, 07:31 PM	#21
MarineVaquero Member Join Date: March 12, 2013 Posts: 51	I'm also surprised that a few of you are suggesting 22lr or 22 short while dismissing the 22 mag I suggested when 22 mag certainly has more stopping power than the other two. Especially considering it would be coming from a rifle, which has ballistics comparible to the 9mm round that others suggested.

May 8, 2020, 08:58 AM	#24
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	MV: Before I built my wife her "hers" Rem 870 12ga HD shotgun, her HD long gun was a Rossi clone of the Winchester 92 in .44mag loaded with my mild (240gr@1000fps) hand load. Still have it, it is still viable, as is any lever gun chambered in .38spl on up. I prefer the Win92 clone over the Marlin 94, but if the Marlin 94 is what is available, no worries. Scorch has a point, though exaggerated, regarding muzzle blast. It is rough indoors. Fall-on-the-ground is baloney, but hearing loss, tinnitus, and short term pain are real risks. BTDT. That, plus my other family members don't eat recoil as well as I, is why I cleave toward lower-pressure rounds for my loaded HD firearms. 12ga, .45ACP, .38spl std & +P. and a heavy .44spl/mild .44mag in the past. SAMMI guidelines: http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm http://randywakeman.com/shotgun_pressures.htm 12ga 11,500 .38spl 17,000 .38spl+P 18,500 .45ACP 21,000 .44spl 15,500 .30-30 42,000 .44mag 35,000 5.56 55,000 9x19 35,000 Longer barrels help mitigate against subjective muzzle blast, too. https://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=445 __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

May 8, 2020, 10:11 AM	#25
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I think all home defense long guns would benefit from having a bright white light mounted to them. Of the choice between a Winchester in 30-30 and a Mossberg pump 12 gauge, I'd go with the shotgun.