I am on the soap box again....

Doc Hoy · February 19, 2012, 04:03 PM

Just visited Gunbroker.com looking for new additions.

Guy has a revolver for sale and wants $40.00 to ship it. No FFL involved.

I would really like to know how he is going to ship it such that it costs forty dollars!

I did not ask him. I figure he knows what he is doing and does not need an inquisition from me.

I won't deal with him though.

NoSecondBest · February 19, 2012, 04:13 PM

Doc,
That's how much it costs a non FFL to ship a gun. They have to ship UPS 2nd day and that's how much it is. They can't use USPS which an FFL holder can.

Beagle333 · February 19, 2012, 04:18 PM

Post not relevant.... deleted.

KEYBEAR · February 19, 2012, 04:24 PM

That is just plain silly .
Use a flat rate box from U.S.P.S and no more then ten bucks .
He man was/is going to make a good 20 dollars on shipping .

Doc Hoy · February 19, 2012, 04:38 PM

This is a cap and ball revolver. No FFL required.

USPS ships to any address in the US Priority Mail. I have shipped Walkers and Dragoons for 11.00 because they fit in an 11.00 flat rate box. An 1851 will break down to fit in a 5.00 flat rate box (Actually I guess they are up to 6.00 now.)

USPS must accept a package that contains a BP revolver and consider it a Non-gun. I have had that argument with P.O. skirts locally and won.

If it costs 40.00 bucks, why are most GB.com sellers shipping for 20.00 or less?

Is there something I am missing?

I just packed up and 1860 for shipment in a flat rate box. I cut a piece of plywood to fit in the box. Cut some shims to hold the plywood in place. glued and tacked the shims to the plywood. Wrapped the pistol in bubble wrap and shrink tape. Drilled four holes in the plywood to accept cable ties. Cable tied the pistol to the plywood. Took me every bit of 25 minutes.

This seller is trying to get 50.00 an hour for his time in packing the pistol.

Bogus! I won't deal with charlatans and I don't care how good the deal is.

Doc Hoy · February 19, 2012, 04:48 PM

....This one really has my skivvies in a wad.

Hardy · February 19, 2012, 05:26 PM

I have shipped and bought many BP guns and shipping costs are the same as shipping anything else. Yall buy from Cabela-they don't charge 40! No one does. It appears someone is charging $30.00 to wrap it up for you.
WBH

NoSecondBest · February 19, 2012, 06:23 PM

Doc, you didn't specify it was black powder. In that case, he's overcharging. As for the others who chimed in thinking it was a modern handgun and it was too high....unless you have an FFL YOU CAN NOT SHIP A HANDGUN VIA USPS. That's the law, no exceptions. Many sellers on gunbroker have FFLs and charge what it costs them to ship a gun.

Willie Sutton · February 19, 2012, 07:17 PM

On the same vein... just "won" a nice Uberti cap and ball on Gunbroker, and the <insert invective here> insists on sending it to an FFL. I asked why... "It's a gun".. and this is from an FFL so you would think he might know better. In eny event, we are in a standoff... no cash from me if he wants me to have it sent to a FFL who will simply hand me a box and charge me $50.00

<sigh>

Any FFL's here who can help out Willie? Slap a label on the box and send it out? C&R is apparently OK for the guy too. I'll pay a reasonable handling fee...

Willie

.

Pahoo · February 19, 2012, 07:34 PM

WOW !!
Recently won one and I thought the shipping was a bit high at $20.00. Guess I'll consider myself lucky. I don't like the unpublished shipping charges and along with the other hassles on GB, think I'll back off for a time. ....

Be Safe !!!

straight-shooter · February 19, 2012, 08:08 PM

I just received a black powder pistol via USPS. No problems at all. The private shipper notified me that he originally tryed to ship via UPS and they now have a new policy in place where they will NOT ship any type of firearm, not even black powder unless it goes directly to a FFL. I called their corporate and was told the same. It looks like USPS will have my business from here on out.

sltm1 · February 19, 2012, 08:11 PM

Willie, I got stung paying for the FFL charges once buying a Manhattan c&b deringer....ALWAYS look at the stuff in red before the description, it states if it goes by FFL or not, if the seller post's that it does then shame on me (& you) for not reading the small print.

Willie Sutton · February 19, 2012, 09:58 PM

Well... most dealers on GB have a standard boilerplate ad that they add a particular gun to, and in this case it says "Firearms will only be shipped to FFL Dealers".

At issue is the fact that BP replicas are not firearms by any legal definition.... but this guy will just not agree.

So...

Willie

.

ClemBert · February 19, 2012, 10:20 PM

I generally don't worry about the shipping costs as long as the cost is clearly posted. I consider the shipping cost to really mean "shipping AND handling". I don't like to think I know everything that does into their shipping AND handling process. Could be that shipping materials to pack it proper are expensive for the guy. Perhaps he has to really go out of his way to make the shipment happen. Long drive? Lost work time? I don't know....This is why it is a non-issue for me. I suppose it isn't much different than to add $40 to the cost of the gun then ship it for free. See what I mean...it's a TOTAL COST thing for me.

I'm much more likely to get bent outta shape for being charged $12 to ship me a $3 coffee cup (other other piddly item) I buy online when the place I'm buying from is a big outfit that is already set up to ship these items in mass quantity.

Lee McNelly · February 19, 2012, 10:51 PM

Buy something for 1.00 and pay 40.00 s h

arcticap · February 20, 2012, 01:08 AM

Willie, I sent you a PM.

Hawg · February 20, 2012, 01:10 AM

I agree with Clem, it's a total cost. If it's 40 bucks shipping and 150 bucks for a 250 dollar gun I'm not gonna let the 40 shipping dissuade me cuz I'm still only giving 190 for it.

NoSecondBest, this IS the black powder forum.

Doc Hoy · February 20, 2012, 03:50 AM

Respectfully...(And you know I mean that)

The logical practical person in me agrees with you two guys 100%. But the emotional inner child declares that there is indeed a difference. It is a principle thing. (I told you I was on a soap box.)

Any seller who would tack forty dollars onto the end of an auction and call it shipping is being (IMHO) dishonest. And if he would be dishonest about shipping he would be dishonest about other aspects of the sale, like misrepresenting the condition and then not honoring the return policy.

The USPS will deliver empty flat rate boxes and then pick them up if you make the right arrangements.

Miss work? Drive a long way to the P.O.? Sorry guys but I don't buy it.

I have been doing eBay for a long time as a non-business person, just a simple buyer and seller. I just got my 609th feedback yeasterday and they are all positive. That is because I try to treat folks the way I want them to treat me. I pay quickly with exactly the payment method the seller specifies. I tolerate a lot of shenangans from buyers (Like not paying with Paypal when all of my listings clearly state that is the way I want to be paid.) I ship quickly and mostly with a flat rate box and I add only a buck or two for materials and other costs.

Gunbroker is a little different from eBay for many reasons. One of those reasons is that it is not quite as commercialized. This means there is a higher percentage of people selling to people, rather than businesses selling to people. This means that a person has a right to expect that the environment will be more "up-front".

I have some rules which I apply on GB and I like to think that I apply them more or less universally.

1. I don't bid on auctions in which the shipping is more than 25.00 (I know that this means I will miss some good deals by standing on my "principles" soap box.

2. I don't bid on BP auctions in which the seller insists upon FFL involvement. (I think this most often happens because the seller is an FFL holder. 2 reasons for this which I am happy to discuss separately.)

3. If the seller advertises "buyer pays actual shipping costs" and I am really interested, I try to pin the seller down. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

I don't get emotional about much stuff, but this is one of those issues that bugs me.

noelf2 · February 20, 2012, 09:36 AM

Recently I was planning to ship 2 BP revolvers to a member on this forum for some smithing work. USPS was my preference. I'm in VA and he's in the middle of TX. The guns wouldn't fit in a flat rate box so I packed them up in a box I had. The USPS cost would have been about $50 so I didn't ship them. Just for comparison, I calculated how much the same package would cost USPS to New York. Was about $17. So, I guess sellers have to figure on the worse case scenario. Just sayin'

Doc Hoy · February 20, 2012, 10:43 AM

Thanks for the insight and of course you are correct.

However, this auction was for a pistol which would easily fit in a flat rate box.

Obviously I am thinking, maybe the seller wants to make more money on an auction than the item is eventually worth and he hides that additional cost calling it shipping, or shipping and handling, or shipping and processing, etc.

If I were to meet this guy face to face, I would very likely find him to be a nice, honorable, devoted patriot. But right now he is operating from a credibility deficit.

I can be a pretty quirky guy, a little odd and sometimes stubborn.

I am sticking to my guns. Had I bought this item and paid the forty bucks for shipping I could easily have been told, I had more money than brains. (Even after I sent the payment.)

I am not really certain why I made this most recent post to this thread. I respect all of you and all of your opinions.

I truly am cognizant the validity of each of y'all's inputs.

I am beating a dead horse.

Andy Griffith · February 20, 2012, 06:17 PM

I shipped a couple of items in a large flat rate box a while back.

I put restricted delivery, signature confirmation and $700 insurance on it, and it was a bit above $30.00. I wouldn't think of shipping a BP revolver without those extra three items on it.

Do most of y'all just not purchase a signature or at least delivery confirmation of the on items you were to sell and not add insurance to save a buck or two???

Let's just face it, most of the curmudgeons on here also qualify as card carrying cheapskate penny-pinching misers. Most people that trade on guns (especially smokepoles) are tight- I know I am.

Simple answer to your rant:
Either man up and pay it, or walk way and buy something or somewhere else.

Hardy · February 20, 2012, 06:22 PM

I did a little checking Doc. As I said before, I never had problems mailing or receiving C/B guns. I talked w/ delivery express owner and he said you can mail or ship anything as long as it's packaged as long it is legal. And the US mail doesn't ask. C/B revolvers are treated like fishing poles etc!!! as far as SC and most states go. I never charged a handling cost when selling firearms. In three years, I have never had a problem taking a wrapped box to the post office. If I did charge to send or mail it was the cost the delivery or mail service charged. The only law I know of is for someone under 18 buying--and sending one w/conversion cylinder in gun, except for few states that prohibit C/B since they are treated as conventional firearms.

WBH

Wolf and Raven · February 20, 2012, 09:03 PM

Just in case anyone is not aware you can get a discount on your flat rate shipping from USPS by purchasing your postage online, plus you get FREE Delivery Confirmation. VERY affordable.

sandman_nv · February 20, 2012, 11:48 PM

plus if the shipment is by Priority Mail or Express Mail, USPS will come pick it up if they do so in your area.

orangello · February 21, 2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

just packed up and 1860 for shipment in a flat rate box. I cut a piece of plywood to fit in the box. Cut some shims to hold the plywood in place. glued and tacked the shims to the plywood. Wrapped the pistol in bubble wrap and shrink tape. Drilled four holes in the plywood to accept cable ties. Cable tied the pistol to the plywood. Took me every bit of 25 minutes.

Dang! That is some nice packaging; i will have to remember that if you put a ROA or some pretty steel-framed thing up for sale. Plywood, bubble wrap, shimmed, and ziptied--very nice!

February 19, 2012, 04:03 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I am on the soap box again.... Just visited Gunbroker.com looking for new additions. Guy has a revolver for sale and wants $40.00 to ship it. No FFL involved. I would really like to know how he is going to ship it such that it costs forty dollars! I did not ask him. I figure he knows what he is doing and does not need an inquisition from me. I won't deal with him though. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 19, 2012, 04:18 PM	#3
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Shipping Post not relevant.... deleted. Last edited by Beagle333; February 19, 2012 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Not paying attention.

February 19, 2012, 04:24 PM	#4
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	SHIPPING That is just plain silly . Use a flat rate box from U.S.P.S and no more then ten bucks . He man was/is going to make a good 20 dollars on shipping .

February 19, 2012, 04:38 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I should have been more specific.... This is a cap and ball revolver. No FFL required. USPS ships to any address in the US Priority Mail. I have shipped Walkers and Dragoons for 11.00 because they fit in an 11.00 flat rate box. An 1851 will break down to fit in a 5.00 flat rate box (Actually I guess they are up to 6.00 now.) USPS must accept a package that contains a BP revolver and consider it a Non-gun. I have had that argument with P.O. skirts locally and won. If it costs 40.00 bucks, why are most GB.com sellers shipping for 20.00 or less? Is there something I am missing? I just packed up and 1860 for shipment in a flat rate box. I cut a piece of plywood to fit in the box. Cut some shims to hold the plywood in place. glued and tacked the shims to the plywood. Wrapped the pistol in bubble wrap and shrink tape. Drilled four holes in the plywood to accept cable ties. Cable tied the pistol to the plywood. Took me every bit of 25 minutes. This seller is trying to get 50.00 an hour for his time in packing the pistol. Bogus! I won't deal with charlatans and I don't care how good the deal is. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; February 19, 2012 at 04:44 PM.

February 19, 2012, 04:48 PM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I need to shift over to decaf...... ....This one really has my skivvies in a wad. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 19, 2012, 04:13 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Doc, That's how much it costs a non FFL to ship a gun. They have to ship UPS 2nd day and that's how much it is. They can't use USPS which an FFL holder can.

February 19, 2012, 05:26 PM	#7
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	I have shipped and bought many BP guns and shipping costs are the same as shipping anything else. Yall buy from Cabela-they don't charge 40! No one does. It appears someone is charging $30.00 to wrap it up for you. WBH

February 19, 2012, 06:23 PM	#8
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Doc, you didn't specify it was black powder. In that case, he's overcharging. As for the others who chimed in thinking it was a modern handgun and it was too high....unless you have an FFL YOU CAN NOT SHIP A HANDGUN VIA USPS. That's the law, no exceptions. Many sellers on gunbroker have FFLs and charge what it costs them to ship a gun.

February 19, 2012, 07:17 PM	#9
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	On the same vein... just "won" a nice Uberti cap and ball on Gunbroker, and the <insert invective here> insists on sending it to an FFL. I asked why... "It's a gun".. and this is from an FFL so you would think he might know better. In eny event, we are in a standoff... no cash from me if he wants me to have it sent to a FFL who will simply hand me a box and charge me $50.00 <sigh> Any FFL's here who can help out Willie? Slap a label on the box and send it out? C&R is apparently OK for the guy too. I'll pay a reasonable handling fee... Willie .

February 19, 2012, 07:34 PM	#10
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Might quit while I'm ahead !!! WOW !! Recently won one and I thought the shipping was a bit high at $20.00. Guess I'll consider myself lucky. I don't like the unpublished shipping charges and along with the other hassles on GB, think I'll back off for a time. .... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

February 19, 2012, 08:08 PM	#11
straight-shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 436	I just received a black powder pistol via USPS. No problems at all. The private shipper notified me that he originally tryed to ship via UPS and they now have a new policy in place where they will NOT ship any type of firearm, not even black powder unless it goes directly to a FFL. I called their corporate and was told the same. It looks like USPS will have my business from here on out.

February 19, 2012, 08:11 PM	#12
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Willie, I got stung paying for the FFL charges once buying a Manhattan c&b deringer....ALWAYS look at the stuff in red before the description, it states if it goes by FFL or not, if the seller post's that it does then shame on me (& you) for not reading the small print.

February 19, 2012, 09:58 PM	#13
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Well... most dealers on GB have a standard boilerplate ad that they add a particular gun to, and in this case it says "Firearms will only be shipped to FFL Dealers". At issue is the fact that BP replicas are not firearms by any legal definition.... but this guy will just not agree. So... Willie .

February 19, 2012, 10:20 PM	#14
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I generally don't worry about the shipping costs as long as the cost is clearly posted. I consider the shipping cost to really mean "shipping AND handling". I don't like to think I know everything that does into their shipping AND handling process. Could be that shipping materials to pack it proper are expensive for the guy. Perhaps he has to really go out of his way to make the shipment happen. Long drive? Lost work time? I don't know....This is why it is a non-issue for me. I suppose it isn't much different than to add $40 to the cost of the gun then ship it for free. See what I mean...it's a TOTAL COST thing for me. I'm much more likely to get bent outta shape for being charged $12 to ship me a $3 coffee cup (other other piddly item) I buy online when the place I'm buying from is a big outfit that is already set up to ship these items in mass quantity.

February 19, 2012, 10:51 PM	#15
Lee McNelly Junior member Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 325	DOC Buy something for 1.00 and pay 40.00 s h

February 20, 2012, 01:08 AM	#16
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Willie, I sent you a PM.

February 20, 2012, 01:10 AM	#17
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,194	I agree with Clem, it's a total cost. If it's 40 bucks shipping and 150 bucks for a 250 dollar gun I'm not gonna let the 40 shipping dissuade me cuz I'm still only giving 190 for it. NoSecondBest, this IS the black powder forum.

February 20, 2012, 03:50 AM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Clem and Hawg Respectfully...(And you know I mean that) The logical practical person in me agrees with you two guys 100%. But the emotional inner child declares that there is indeed a difference. It is a principle thing. (I told you I was on a soap box.) Any seller who would tack forty dollars onto the end of an auction and call it shipping is being (IMHO) dishonest. And if he would be dishonest about shipping he would be dishonest about other aspects of the sale, like misrepresenting the condition and then not honoring the return policy. The USPS will deliver empty flat rate boxes and then pick them up if you make the right arrangements. Miss work? Drive a long way to the P.O.? Sorry guys but I don't buy it. I have been doing eBay for a long time as a non-business person, just a simple buyer and seller. I just got my 609th feedback yeasterday and they are all positive. That is because I try to treat folks the way I want them to treat me. I pay quickly with exactly the payment method the seller specifies. I tolerate a lot of shenangans from buyers (Like not paying with Paypal when all of my listings clearly state that is the way I want to be paid.) I ship quickly and mostly with a flat rate box and I add only a buck or two for materials and other costs. Gunbroker is a little different from eBay for many reasons. One of those reasons is that it is not quite as commercialized. This means there is a higher percentage of people selling to people, rather than businesses selling to people. This means that a person has a right to expect that the environment will be more "up-front". I have some rules which I apply on GB and I like to think that I apply them more or less universally. 1. I don't bid on auctions in which the shipping is more than 25.00 (I know that this means I will miss some good deals by standing on my "principles" soap box. 2. I don't bid on BP auctions in which the seller insists upon FFL involvement. (I think this most often happens because the seller is an FFL holder. 2 reasons for this which I am happy to discuss separately.) 3. If the seller advertises "buyer pays actual shipping costs" and I am really interested, I try to pin the seller down. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I don't get emotional about much stuff, but this is one of those issues that bugs me. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 20, 2012, 09:36 AM	#19
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Recently I was planning to ship 2 BP revolvers to a member on this forum for some smithing work. USPS was my preference. I'm in VA and he's in the middle of TX. The guns wouldn't fit in a flat rate box so I packed them up in a box I had. The USPS cost would have been about $50 so I didn't ship them. Just for comparison, I calculated how much the same package would cost USPS to New York. Was about $17. So, I guess sellers have to figure on the worse case scenario. Just sayin' __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

February 20, 2012, 10:43 AM	#20
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Noelf Thanks for the insight and of course you are correct. However, this auction was for a pistol which would easily fit in a flat rate box. Obviously I am thinking, maybe the seller wants to make more money on an auction than the item is eventually worth and he hides that additional cost calling it shipping, or shipping and handling, or shipping and processing, etc. If I were to meet this guy face to face, I would very likely find him to be a nice, honorable, devoted patriot. But right now he is operating from a credibility deficit. I can be a pretty quirky guy, a little odd and sometimes stubborn. I am sticking to my guns. Had I bought this item and paid the forty bucks for shipping I could easily have been told, I had more money than brains. (Even after I sent the payment.) I am not really certain why I made this most recent post to this thread. I respect all of you and all of your opinions. I truly am cognizant the validity of each of y'all's inputs. I am beating a dead horse. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; February 20, 2012 at 11:11 AM.

February 20, 2012, 06:17 PM	#21
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	I shipped a couple of items in a large flat rate box a while back. I put restricted delivery, signature confirmation and $700 insurance on it, and it was a bit above $30.00. I wouldn't think of shipping a BP revolver without those extra three items on it. Do most of y'all just not purchase a signature or at least delivery confirmation of the on items you were to sell and not add insurance to save a buck or two??? Let's just face it, most of the curmudgeons on here also qualify as card carrying cheapskate penny-pinching misers. Most people that trade on guns (especially smokepoles) are tight- I know I am. Simple answer to your rant: Either man up and pay it, or walk way and buy something or somewhere else. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...." Last edited by Andy Griffith; February 20, 2012 at 06:30 PM.

February 20, 2012, 06:22 PM	#22
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	I did a little checking Doc. As I said before, I never had problems mailing or receiving C/B guns. I talked w/ delivery express owner and he said you can mail or ship anything as long as it's packaged as long it is legal. And the US mail doesn't ask. C/B revolvers are treated like fishing poles etc!!! as far as SC and most states go. I never charged a handling cost when selling firearms. In three years, I have never had a problem taking a wrapped box to the post office. If I did charge to send or mail it was the cost the delivery or mail service charged. The only law I know of is for someone under 18 buying--and sending one w/conversion cylinder in gun, except for few states that prohibit C/B since they are treated as conventional firearms. WBH

February 20, 2012, 09:03 PM	#23
Wolf and Raven Member Join Date: April 17, 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 28	Just in case anyone is not aware you can get a discount on your flat rate shipping from USPS by purchasing your postage online, plus you get FREE Delivery Confirmation. VERY affordable.

February 20, 2012, 11:48 PM	#24
sandman_nv Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 108	plus if the shipment is by Priority Mail or Express Mail, USPS will come pick it up if they do so in your area.