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Old January 23, 2021, 05:51 PM   #1
Rev_Night
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Furniture that conceals gunsafes

Hi!

I bought a Vaultek Pro-FE (14.5x10.5x3.5") for myself and the smaller VE10 (10x8.5x2") for my wife. These have sat underneath our bed for the past year just fine, but my wife is now pregnant. Soon we are going to have a child crawling over the not-large apartment and they will immediately find, and I'm sure want to play with, the gun safes. I know they have a time-out feature after a few bad codes, but that isn't enough.

I was wondering what you all used to hide gunsafes in your bedrooms from curious young ones. I realize that the only way to gun proof your house is to gunproof your kids, but we are a few years away from that. I was thinking furniture/chest of drawers that we put the safes in, but I am concerned that clothes will just be stuffed on top of them.

Thanks peeps
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Old January 24, 2021, 12:49 PM   #2
Shadow9mm
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First off congratulations!

I'm gonna be honest, I think the safes you have will be fine. You have a good bit of time before baby is crawling, let alone cruising or walking.

All you need to to is get the safes out from under the bed onto something tall. bookshelf, kitchen cabinet, shelf, you get the idea. That should keep them out of it until then are old enough to be taught gun safety.

Myself, I just had a metal cabinet with a key lock on it. have 3 kids currently 11, 8, and 6, they have all survived so far and go out shooting with me occasionally.

Your going to be spending a lot of money, diapers and baby supplies are not cheap. Save where you can.
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Last edited by Shadow9mm; January 24, 2021 at 09:49 PM.
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Old January 24, 2021, 09:22 PM   #3
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Congratulations!

and, if you'll pardon the pun, the answer to your concerns is childishly simple...

Don't leave loaded guns unattended
Don't leave children unattended

That is entirely your responsibility.

Here's a tip from a grandpa, when the little ones get mobile on their own. put a bell on them. Little one or two on each foot is good. Listen for the bells, but most importantly, listen for when the bells STOP!

That means they're getting into something!
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Old January 25, 2021, 09:18 AM   #4
MarkA
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Ha! Ah yea; silence is deafening when you've got a 2-5 year old. They are either asleep, or into something they shouldn't be.

I've had a pistol in a Vaultek biometric for a while. At the old house, I had it bolted down to the top of a dresser; he was 2 & 3 years old then. Now I've got it bolted down to a piece of furniture in our bedroom closet. He tried it a few times; made it beep because he's attracted to all things with LEDs (definitely my son). And he was over it. He also knows he ain't touching a gun without daddy helping unless he wants to get lit up. I'm pretty confident in the Vaultek stuff regarding kid deterrence at this point.
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Old January 25, 2021, 01:06 PM   #5
zoo
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I don't know. I've seen a couple 4 and 5 year olds that can climb like monkeys. Walked into a house once and found one sitting on top of a tall fridge. The mother was sitting on the couch with her finger in her nose.
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Old January 25, 2021, 02:09 PM   #6
Blue Jays
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No kids here...so no special precautions need to be taken beyond typical hardened gun safes.

What about storing firearms empty with magazines /speedloaders in adjacent safe with different combo?
That way if kids could somehow defeat keypad entry of either, they would still have yet another safe to crack.

Children are inquisitive. Good luck with finding a plan that works for you, OP.
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Old January 25, 2021, 09:07 PM   #7
zoo
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I'm a licensed mental health counselor with a masters degree in clinical mental health counseling and although I worked with adult clients for a long time I've also worked in specifically a children's outpatient clinic for several years.

It has been my observation that for the most part adults generally tend to underestimate the abilities of their children. Children have at times shown me abilities that I have found quite remarkable, other times not so much, lol. It wouldn't be a leap for a clever child to toss your vaulttech from a height such as the top of a refrigerator to open it or attempt to pry open your gunbox with a screwdriver, butter knife, or similar.

Just sayin...
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Old January 25, 2021, 10:43 PM   #8
zoo
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I've seen the tragedy that results from the accidental shooting death of a little one, Rev.

I don't think there is much a parent can experience that would be worse.

You want to be able to get to your weapon quickly but maybe you should look into getting a pump action shotgun or similar that requires a few more steps than your little one can muster yet you can get set up in a blink. I know I can grab a shotgun and a few shells and be set up quicker than you can say home intruder.
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Old January 26, 2021, 01:26 PM   #9
cjwils
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I agree with what others have said about not trusting kids with guns or with small safes, but I want to add that in the event of a home burglary, the small safes you have described give virtually no protection. A thief can simply carry them out of the house to be broken open later. Even if bolted to the floor, small safes are not secure. A thief can use a hammer or crowbar to break a small safe loose from its mounting. Hiding a small safe in furniture is risky because thieves are good at doing a thorough search. Only a safe that is too big and heavy to be dragged out will give good protection.
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Old January 26, 2021, 04:21 PM   #10
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KIds are amazing in what they can do, and at an earlier age than many realize.

My daughter, at age four was able to tell a friend how to get the radio on in my component stereo system (receiver/tuner, amp, pre-amp, tape deck, turntable, graphic equalizer) mounted on a shelf 5ft off the floor, that she had never touched, because she had watched me do it enough to have learned (from the floor) which switches did what.

My son, at about age 3, "drove" his grandfather's car. He left the keys in it. Kid opened the big, heavy door (Ford LTD II), got in, turned the key to ON (ery fortunately, he didn't turn the key all the way to START ) and put the gearshift lever in D. Car rolled off the driveway, had the engine been running so the power steering was on, he probably would have made the turn around the wellhouse...

Wife's brother at about age 5 got a .22 rifle from a closet, got the BOLT for the rifle from a dresser, got the ammo from another dresser and put them all together correctly and then fired a round into the floor!

The kids knew how to do this, because they had watched the grownups do it, AND they were on their own to do things, unsupervised.

Doesn't take a degree to know that kids can do these things, just takes being a parent (which is different than being the mother/father) or actually listening to what parents can tell you.

NEVER think, "my kid wouldn't do that". NEVER! because the moment you do, they WILL!

Here's the important point, just how important is it, to you, to have a loaded gun immediately available??? Anything that isn't on your person isn't instantly available. Stored anywhere, locked in a safe or not, it takes some amount of time for you to get to it. If you're prepared with a loaded magazine or speedloader, the tiny amount of time needed to load the gun is something I wouldn't consider as important as the extra degree of safety if the child gets their hands on an unloaded gun. As I mentioned, its not an absolute guarantee that the child can't load the gun (if they've seen you do it) but I don't think it is as risky as when the gun is already loaded.

The real safety is first, making sure the child has no opportunity to do it. And, if that means changing what you do or want to do, that's what it means.

Second line of safety comes when the child is old enough to understand WHY they shouldn't do it. And then there's the additional steps, like not allowing other people's kids free unsupervised run of your household, either...

I grew up in a house where a loaded 12 ga "lived" behind the kitchen door. So did my mother. Same house, and same gun. We were taught well the dos and don'ts. Papa made sure of that, and his methods of "emphasis" were painfully enduring.

Today we have far too many adults who don't know (or know and don't do) the right things and their children are worse off because of it, I think.

Congratulations on your impending parenthood! From this point on, NOTHING in your life should be as important as the well being and proper education of your child. And I mean more than just what they learn in school.
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Old January 26, 2021, 06:41 PM   #11
Mainah
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When I was twelve I shared a paper route with a friend. We got into a disagreement about our workload that led to a fight and I beat him up. A week or so later I thought we'd worked it out and I was at his house.

His parents weren't home. He led me to his parent's closet and showed me his dad's guns. Then he chambered a round in a bold action rifle, pointed it my chest, and told me to leave. I did.

He was always a better student, and better behaved kid than I was. Now he's CEO in finance. You never know.
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Old January 28, 2021, 11:14 PM   #12
DT Guy
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I never trusted 'secrecy' when securing guns from the kids when they were small; they'll find ANYTHING eventually, and often, as mentioned, see you putting guns in or taking them out.

It takes codes or keys with strong discipline; I went with Simplex locked safes for my duty weapons, since otherwise you have to secure the key just as carefully as you secure the safe, and that's hard with a little one around.

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Old January 31, 2021, 04:24 PM   #13
vito
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I have known numerous parents who think their kids are different from all other kids, that their kids KNOW that they cannot touch Dad's gun or guns and would NEVER do so. These parents are fools hopefully will not have a child killed or anyone hurt or killed before they recognize their foolishness in believing what they do. As others have said, kids are curious, and most kids think that they are far more responsible than their parents believe them to be.

Many, many years ago when one of my sons was about 11 and was at a friend's house (and this was on a military base and the friend's father was an Army officer like myself). The friend told my son that his Dad had warned him never to touch the Dad's gun, but this boy told my son that he knew all about guns and did my son want to see it? My son came home and told me about this incident, and said "don't worry Dad, nothing happened. The gun was loaded but after he showed it to me he put it back in his Dad's shirt drawer where it was "hidden"." When I told the Dad about what had happened he called my son a liar, saying his son would never do such a thing.

If you value your child's life, buy a decent gun storage case. Even something like a simple GunVault, which can be secured with screws inside a dresser drawer, or inside the drawer of a bedside table, can be enough to keep curious hands from getting to it, and yet be reasonably available to you in case it is needed for home defense.

The same son I mentioned above was much more curious about my gun (I only owned one at the time, a 357mag S&W revolver) than any of his older brothers and sisters. When he was about 9 I took him to the range and made him fire about a dozen rounds of 38 special and when he said he had had enough, I then made him fire a dozen rounds of 357mag. He wanted to stop after a single round of the magnum, saying it hurt his hands. I made him keep firing. Then we went home and I made him follow my instructions and thoroughly clean the revolver. By the time we were done the gun held zero mystery or special attraction to him, and I never again was concerned that he might try to find it to handle it or play with it while I was not home. But despite this, I kept the gun in a small gun safe, in part because I didn't want some other child, when visiting, possibly ask my son if his Dad had a gun and if so, could he see it. Better safe than sorry.
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Old February 3, 2021, 01:48 AM   #14
roscoe
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I put a flat top-opening pistol vault in a drawer in my bedside dresser. A child might pull the drawer out onto his/her foot, but the safe won't open. The pistol vault opens with buttons I can feel in the dark, so it is handy enough. Nothing else goes into that drawer.

And yeah, when they are old enough, educate them. But truly young kids are just an unambiguous hazard.
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Old February 3, 2021, 02:15 AM   #15
Blue Jays
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Another concern about kids is their only fingers sufficiently strong to pull the trigger are their THUMBS.
That is how younger kids sadly will get a self-inflicted GSW to the abdomen with muzzle facing them.
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