Rifle Barrels

[old roper]

Nick, Kreiger,Brux,Mike Rock (Rock Creek) and some others all worked for Boots Obermeryer. Bartrlein worked for Kreiger.

Here in Co we have https://www.rockymountainrifleworks.com/

If you go down page Mark Chanlynn got his start working for Boots.

[Scorch]

Is Pac-Nor rebuilding after their fire?

They said probably not, but even if they did, it will take years to be back in operation.

[dakota.potts]

Am re-engaging in building a replica M40. Which barrel maker would would you lean towards?

You going with an early M40 or one of the later mods?

I barreled a number of A3s, A5s and an A6 in my time at C&H Precision.

The later models are spec'ed to a Schneider barrel. I have seen some real lasers built on Schneider barrels (and done a few myself that I was pretty proud of). I never built anything early than an A3, can't say for sure what the barrel spec is for the earlier models, but a Schneider is still a solid choice. Or a Krieger, Bartlein or Hart.

[reynolds357]

Since we have already digressed, What quality level are Wilson barrels?

[Nathan]

Call White Oak Armament....they were pretty happy with Wilson blanks when we spoke last time. I put one in my AR, but I’m still working on the load. Under 1” so far.

[Wyosmith]

Many believe that price is an indicator of accuracy in Barrels. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I have made a lot of rifles in my 1/2 century as a gunsmith. I have used barrels that run the price table from free to $600 and what I have found is that most of the very costly barrels shoot very very well, (but not all.) And some of the high priced barrel makers will give you a new one if the 1st one doesn't shoot very very well. (but not all)

I have also made a few hundred rifles with barrels that most snobs would not look at that shot under 1/2 MOA and one I personally own has a free barrel in it that shoots center to center groups so tight I don't tell anyone, but I will show them if they come to my shop. This rifle has a barrel in it that was a "take-off" so my customer could buy a $400 barrel to replace it. In my rifle I am getting groups that was far under 1/2" at 100 and my hunting load is the least accurate, shooting "only" 5/8" at 100 with 200 grain Noslers.

I made a 25-06 for a good friend of mine who later was dying, and left the rifle back to me in his will. it has an Adams and Bennet barrel we got from Midway USA when they were doing a clearance sale of them when they stopped selling them. It was simply a straight blank, and Bob paid under $30 for it. This gun shoots 1/2 MOA and that's not ever noteworthy with it. That is to say it doesn't shoot 1/2 sometimes, but every time if you don't wiggle.

I have installed about 40 barrels in the last 10 years that cost upwards of $500 and all have shot well but one was a disappointment to the customer who though he should get better then 3/4 to 7/8 with match bullets with it so he tried to get a replacement. Nope. The company said under MOA was good enough and that would be within their accuracy guarantee. He was mad when I was shooting my 270 right next to him on the line and getting 7/16 with my hunting loads in my 270 which has an ER Shaw in it that I installed a few years ago. That Shaw barrel cost me a bit under $100 back when I bought it. I also have one in my 375H&H that shoots tight "Micky Mouse Heads" at 100 and it cost me about 90 dollars back when I bought it.
So I am NOT saying the big money barrels are no good. No, far from it. I am saying that they are not necessarily more accurate then others that cost less then 1/2 of what they ask.

I see a comment that "Douglass" should not be in the list. Ok, that's the choice of the owner. But I have 2 Douglass barrels that shoot very very well. Back in the 70s and early 80s I had some time when I was somewhat interested in Bench Rest shooting. I saw a lot of rifles that had Douglas barrels in them back then. And many of then shot a tight ragged hole at 200 yards with 10 rounds. Many if not most of the high priced barrels today don't shoot that well, but the barrel is just one of many details that can make a rifle super accurate. the best barrel on earth will not soot all that well if the chamber is not perfect, if the bedding is not correct, if the crown is off perpendicular with the bore and if if if if a LOT of other things are not right.
So spending $500 to 700 is NOT some kind of guarantee that your rifle is going to be a "one holer"

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

Many believe that price is an indicator of accuracy in Barrels. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I have made a lot of rifles in my 1/2 century as a gunsmith. I have used barrels that run the price table from free to $600 and what I have found is that most of the very costly barrels shoot very very well, (but not all.) And some of the high priced barrel makers will give you a new one if the 1st one doesn't shoot very very well. (but not all)

I have also made a few hundred rifles with barrels that most snobs would not look at that shot under 1/2 MOA and one I personally own has a free barrel in it that shoots center to center groups so tight I don't tell anyone, but I will show them if they come to my shop. This rifle has a barrel in it that was a "take-off" so my customer could buy a $400 barrel to replace it. In my rifle I am getting groups that was far under 1/2" at 100 and my hunting load is the least accurate, shooting "only" 5/8" at 100 with 200 grain Noslers.

I made a 25-06 for a good friend of mine who later was dying, and left the rifle back to me in his will. it has an Adams and Bennet barrel we got from Midway USA when they were doing a clearance sale of them when they stopped selling them. It was simply a straight blank, and Bob paid under $30 for it. This gun shoots 1/2 MOA and that's not ever noteworthy with it. That is to say it doesn't shoot 1/2 sometimes, but every time if you don't wiggle.

I have installed about 40 barrels in the last 10 years that cost upwards of $500 and all have shot well but one was a disappointment to the customer who though he should get better then 3/4 to 7/8 with match bullets with it so he tried to get a replacement. Nope. The company said under MOA was good enough and that would be within their accuracy guarantee. He was mad when I was shooting my 270 right next to him on the line and getting 7/16 with my hunting loads in my 270 which has an ER Shaw in it that I installed a few years ago. That Shaw barrel cost me a bit under $100 back when I bought it. I also have one in my 375H&H that shoots tight "Micky Mouse Heads" at 100 and it cost me about 90 dollars back when I bought it.
So I am NOT saying the big money barrels are no good. No, far from it. I am saying that they are not necessarily more accurate then others that cost less then 1/2 of what they ask.

I see a comment that "Douglass" should not be in the list. Ok, that's the choice of the owner. But I have 2 Douglass barrels that shoot very very well. Back in the 70s and early 80s I had some time when I was somewhat interested in Bench Rest shooting. I saw a lot of rifles that had Douglas barrels in them back then. And many of then shot a tight ragged hole at 200 yards with 10 rounds. Many if not most of the high priced barrels today don't shoot that well, but the barrel is just one of many details that can make a rifle super accurate. the best barrel on earth will not soot all that well if the chamber is not perfect, if the bedding is not correct, if the crown is off perpendicular with the bore and if if if if a LOT of other things are not right.
So spending $500 to 700 is NOT some kind of guarantee that your rifle is going to be a "one holer"

I used to shoot Douglas and Hart. Times change and imo they didnt keep up and got left in the dust.

[old roper]

This is Bartlein pricing

https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-pricing/

You can order barrel here http://www.bugholes.com/category-s/1818.htm

It will be same price that Bartlein charge.

I've never paid $600 for a barrel.

This is Obermeyers price list

http://www.obermeyerbarrels.com/pricelist.html

[Nathan]

Wyosmith....love your post.

Accuracy is kind of inconclusive, isn’t it? I mean generally a true action, with a premium barrel, in a good bedded stock, off a proper rest, with a good shooter and a worked up load is a 0.5” or better gun, but not always.

The crazy thing is often a factory tube, in a factory laminate stock, factory action can come close if you put $500 into bedding, trigger, and other small repairs....

So what have you seen to tell you if you’re dealing with an accurate combination?

Also, given what you stated above, is it money better spent to use a ~$200 blank (McGowen, Wilson, etc) vs a $350 blank (Krieger, Bartlein, Rock Creek, Brux, Hart)? I mean how does a guy choose?

BTW, I’m the idiot putting a Rock Creek on a Savage 12 that shoots 0.6” 5 shot 100 yd groups now! Still, would like to see 0.5” or better come from that gun and want a muzzle brake.

[Nathan]

I've never paid $600 for a barrel.

Who can charge $600 for a blank?


Anybody know OBERMEYER‘s current lead time?

[old roper]

Nathan, did I say blank? Read Wyosmith, I have used barrels that run the price table from free to $600 and what I have found is that most of the very costly barrels shoot very very well, (but not all.) And some of the high priced barrel makers will give you a new one if the 1st one doesn't shoot very very well. (but not all.

Bartlein price $355.00 plus shipping/sales tax is for contour barrel and it's ready to chamber.

https://bartleinbarrels.com/contours/

https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/

[Scorch]

What quality level are Wilson barrels?

They are a fair barrel, but a Green Mountain will outshoot them typically. I had a Wilson on my NM AR-15, and it shot under MOA, but not a lot under. I put a GM on my last personal AR build and it shoots 1/4 MOA. Some people swear by them, other people swear at them.

The crazy thing is often a factory tube, in a factory laminate stock, factory action can come close if you put $500 into bedding, trigger, and other small repairs....

Had a customer with a Ruger M77 in 22-250 that shot 1/4 MOA from the factory. He shot it out. we put a McGowen on it and it shot 1/2 MOA. Go figure!

[Skwib]

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

You going with an early M40 or one of the later mods?

I barreled a number of A3s, A5s and an A6 in my time at C&H Precision.

The later models are spec'ed to a Schneider barrel. I have seen some real lasers built on Schneider barrels (and done a few myself that I was pretty proud of). I never built anything early than an A3, can't say for sure what the barrel spec is for the earlier models, but a Schneider is still a solid choice. Or a Krieger, Bartlein or Hart.

You going with an early M40 or one of the later mods?

Dakota.Potts - I got one of the MacMillan stocks returned by the Marines that had served in the Iraqi invasion. So, somewhere around 2005/2006. Don't know how long they had been in service. Does that make this an older model, or a newer one? Sounds like a Schneider is a safe bet regardless.

[Paul B.]

I have four rifles with Douglas barrels. They all will shoot sub-MOA. That's really more than is necessary for a big game hunting rifle.
Paul B.

[Wyosmith]

Just as a side line, the barrels from Europe are the ones that cost $600, and more at times.
Doing restoration work I use what the customer demands and a few have demanded "original makers" for their work.
Very good, but nothing can convince me they are better than what we can buy in the USA.

[Unclenick]

I think that's likely correct. Just looking at benchrest records in the U.S., one would be stymied to find better accuracy than all the American-made, one-holers that exist. But for collecting value, I'm sure many folks asking for restoration will want originals. I just don't have a sense of what that does for resale value since it isn't the factory original barrel, even if the origin is correct.

[dakota.potts]

Skwib - the timeline sounds like it would be an A3 model.

If it is a Monte-Carlo style stock (looks like a traditional hunting rifle) with a camouflage "smear" it's an A1.

Olive drab squared-off style stock with sling flush cups is an A3. If it has the NVG bridge at the front (the cuts will look kind of like a 6-fingered claw) you could make it an A3 or an A5 depending on your taste.

Schneider is the "correct" way to go on the A3 and A5 models if you're looking for a clone, and I can say from experience you won't be disappointed by the accuracy if you get a good smith to cut it. 0.5 MOA 5-shot groups were an everyday occurrence with good factory ammo (usually FGMM).

[cw308]

I shoot a trued ( blueprinted ) Rem. 700 in 308 . When the rifle needed a new barrel Accurate Ordinance did the work . They installed a Rock Creek M24 5R 11:27 twist , I'm getting .5 10 shot groups at 200 yards with almost 4000 through the barrel . Most of the well known makers turn out accurate barrels , it's the luck of the draw when you get a tack driver .

Chris

[HiBC]

Part of the answer to the cost vs quality is another question. Where is the additional cost going?

If it goes to a business plan based on a higher margin of profit,that does not necessarily provide higher quality.

Its possible (but not necessarily true) that WW2 technology might be slower or generate more scrap than modern CNC equiptment. Time is money. A less efficient process might add cost without necessarily increasing quality.

Yet some of the older ,or more artisan based processes trade time and skill (cost) for benefits in quality.

A hammer forged barrel might meet the needs of the customer while being less expensive than higher quality steel,extra stress relief or cryo processes,a slower process(such as cur rifling) costs more time. It might result ina more stress free barrel than button rifling.

Hand lapping can produce an excellent barrel. At a cost. Not all barrels are hand lapped. Some non-lapped barrels may shoot good.

I'll agree,some barrels will likely shoot better than other barrels...

For sure,the targets tell a lot of the story.

But part of it is how the transaction "feels" to the guy spending the dollar.

For some,it will be a Krieger or Lilja. For some,a $35 gun show takeoff barrel is an adventure...especially if a little firelapping makes it a shooter.

It can come down to how you feel about what you got for your dollar.

Every shooter,like every rifle,is different