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Old June 9, 2022, 07:41 PM   #26
Straitshot
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Not many folks talk about them any more but I personally like the Sig P238 with the extended mag. I know many don't like it because it is a single stack. The first one I purchased had the alloy frame. I liked it but really wanted something a bit heaver as I prefer a heaver gun. I think the weight makes for more accurate follow up shots so my second P238 was the all steel Spartan model. I know some folks don't like the added weight but I do.

The down side is Sig discontinued the all steel Spartan, and it was a bit pricy. When they first decided to cease production of them everyone put them on close out sales and I jumped on the price reduction and bought another one. Glad I did as it was about half of what the first Spartan cost me.

I think Sig still makes an all steel P238. I just don't know what the model designation is.
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Old June 9, 2022, 09:44 PM   #27
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Here we go!

As much as many of us like a 4 inch for a combination of reasons, you have now jumped into shorter barrel land. The answer is G3C, the reviews of this Taurus are great, and it's been out for 2 years!
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Old June 10, 2022, 03:40 AM   #28
Alan0354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammo.crafter View Post
My daughter carries a Walther PPK in a belly band as well as a shoulder holster depending on circumstances.

I find that my "mini" CCW AMT Backup is highly concealable in a rear pocket holster and is quite reliable using Winchester FMJ flat point cartridges.

American Arms mini revolver in .22mag is a consideration, too.

Have no idea re California regs but a Walther PP in .32acp is flat as they come.
I have the Walther PPKS, I made it very reliable. I have a few of the Freedom Arms 22mag revolvers. They are great. I chronographed Two Freedom Arms 22mag, one is 1" and the other is 1 3'4" barrel. they were 1,100 and 1,300fps. Yes, it's that high. BUT the bigger North American .22mag is sad, it's either 1 3/4" or 2" barrel and not even getting 1,000fps.

The Freedom Arm are very tight tolerance. The gap between cylinder and back of the barrel is about 0.003"(I think, it's been a long time). The NA is at least 0.007". I think it lost a lot of pressure from the bigger gap.

Believe me, it comes to my mind carrying BOTH freedom Arms so I can get 8 shots without reloading.

BUT, I have all these already. I am looking for new toy!!!! So these do NOT count!!! )

I have Beretta 950BS, I have S&W 66 also. I bought a Glock 26, but that is getting a little big. I have about 20 guns. I just want to look at new ones. Too bad I can't get the obviously good ones AND I have no plan to move out of Kalifornia. Sig 365, Glock 42 and 43, Kel Tech 32 are all out. Even S&W small 380 is out.

When comes to semi auto, I really believe in polymer frame guns, they are stronger than aluminum. They are a whole lot lighter than steel ones.

Last edited by Alan0354; June 10, 2022 at 03:49 AM.
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Old June 10, 2022, 09:35 AM   #29
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One or two surplus selections

Not mini like an LCP, but still easy to conceal and uber reliable.

CZ-82 9mm Mak. double action, 12+1 and the best trigger ever for a milsurp.
PA-63, More concealable than the above, but about 1/2 the mag capacity. The PA-63 got me started on C+R way back when.

For a few years the PA-63 was the lowest cost semi auto around, early on many stayed away due to the 9mm Mak chambering.
9 mm Makarov is now easily available and there are at least two SD loadings.

One can trim 9mm cases to 18 mm length easily, be sure to identify them. Black magic marker works for me.
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Old June 10, 2022, 08:55 PM   #30
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Being in California, your options are limited to the 9mm & 380 pistols below. I personally would go with the highest capacity one in the smallest package and ideally in 9mm. It would be either the Glock 26 or LC380CA. Both are super reliable and compact.

Go here to compare: https://www.handgunhero.com/


Armscor Precision AP9 FS / Steel Pistol 4.5" 9mm
Armscor Precision AP9 MS / Steel Pistol 3.8" 9mm
Armscor Precision MAPP1 MS / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.8" 9mm
Beretta 92FS / Alloy; Steel Pistol 4.9" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Black Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Brigadier / Blue Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Brigadier Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Compact Type M / Blue Steel Pistol 4.3" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Inox / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Inox Lasergrips / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.92" 9mm
Beretta 92FS OD Green / Alloy; Steel Pistol 4.9" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Type M9A1 / Alloy; Steel Pistol 5" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Vertec Inox / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.7" 9mm
Beretta 92FS Vertec Inox Lasergrips / Steel, Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.52" 9mm
Beretta 92G Elite A1 / Steel Pistol 4.5" 9mm
Beretta 92G Elite II J92GE20 / Blue Steel, Stainless Steel Pistol 4.7" 9mm
Beretta 92G-SD (Matte Black) J92GSD1 / Stainless Steel, Steel, Alloy Pistol 5" 9mm
Beretta M9 Commercial / Alloy; Steel Pistol 4.9" 9mm
Beretta PX4 Storm Type F JXF9F20 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm
Beretta PX4 Storm Type G / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) 75 BD (Black) 01130 / Steel Pistol 4.687" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 2075 RAMI 01750 / Alloy; Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 B (Black) 01102 / Steel Pistol 4.593" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 B SA (Black) 01150 / Steel Pistol 4.593" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 Compact (Black) 01190 / Steel Pistol 3.765" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 D (Black) 01194 / Alloy Pistol 3.763" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 P-01 01199 / Alloy; Steel Pistol 3.88" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 SP-01 01152 / Steel, Poly Pistol 4.7" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 Tactical 01100 / Steel Pistol 4.72" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) CZ 75 TS 01172 / Steel, Alloy, Poly Trigger Pistol 5.4" 9mm
Charter 2000 79920 / Stainless Steel; Alloy Revolver 2.2" 9mm
FMK Firearms 9C1 Gen II (Black) (w/Bill of Rights) / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.87" 9mm
FMK Firearms 9C1 Gen II (Front Sight) (Black) / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.87" 9mm
FMK Firearms 9C1 Gen II (Pink) / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.87" 9mm
FMK Firearms 9C1 Gen II (Tan) / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.87" 9mm
Glock 17 (Black) / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.49" 9mm
Glock 17 OD / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.49" 9mm
Glock 17C / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.49" 9mm
Glock 17RTF2 (Black) / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.49" 9mm
Glock 19 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.02" 9mm
Glock 19 OD / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.02" 9mm
Glock 19C / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.02" 9mm
Glock 26 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.46" 9mm
Glock 26 OD / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.46" 9mm
Glock 34 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 5.32" 9mm
Glock 34 OD / Steel, Polymer Pistol 5.32" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000 SK-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.3" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000 SK-V3 US / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.3" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V3 (FDE Frame) / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V3 (OD Green) / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V3 Midnight Bronze slide / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000-V3 US / Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm
Heckler & Koch P2000SK-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.27" 9mm
Hi Point C9 UPC#752334091604 / Polymer, Zinc Alloy, Chrome Moly Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093 (SN tag on frame under barrel) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093 (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093BB (SN tag on frame under barrel) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093BB (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093BCF (SN tag on frame under barrel) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093BCF (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093KRT / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093KRT (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms CW9093N / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms K9093A / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms K9093NA / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms K9098A / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms K9098NA / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms KP9093A / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms KP9093NA / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms KP9094A / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms KP9094A (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms KP9094NA / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.5" 9mm
Kahr Arms M9093A / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms M9093NA / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms M9098A / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms M9098A (Checkering Grip) / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms M9098NA / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9093A / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9093A (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9093NA / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9094A / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9094NA / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kahr Arms PM9094NA (SN tag on grip) / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Kimber Stainless Target 9mm II / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9mm
Sig Sauer P226 Scorpion 226R-9-SCPN-CA / Steel Pistol 4.40" 9mm
Sig Sauer P226 Extreme 226R-9-XTM-BLKGRY-CA / Steel Pistol 4.40" 9mm
Sig Sauer P226 MK-25 Navy Version ( Black) MK-25-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 4.40" 9mm
Sig Sauer P226R (Black) 226R-9-BSS-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 4.40" 9mm
Sig Sauer P229 (Black) 229R-9-BSS-CA / Alloy; Steel Pistol 3.9" 9mm
Sig Sauer P229R Enhanced Elite (Black) 229R-9-ESE-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 3.9" 9mm
Sig Sauer P239 (Blued) / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 3.6" 9mm
Sig Sauer P6 (P.W. Arms) / Alloy; Steel Pistol 3.9" 9mm
Sig Sauer SP2022 (Blued) / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.8" 9mm
Smith & Wesson 986 SKU 178055 / Stainless Steel Revolver 5" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield (Blk) (Carry Kit) SKU 12550 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield (FDE) SKU 13004 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield (FDE) SKU 13286 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield (Gray) SKU 13285 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield (OD Green) SKU 13287 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P9 Shield (Blk) Hi Viz SKU 11905 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P9 Shield (Blk) SKU 187021 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P9 SHIELD SKU 13582 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.125" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M&P9 SHIELD SKU 13583 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 3.125" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M929 170341 / Alloy; Steel Revolver 6.5" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M929 SKU 170341A / Stainless Steel; Titanium Alloy Revolver 6.5" 9mm
Smith & Wesson M929 SKU 170341B / Stainless Steel; Titanium Alloy Revolver 6.5" 9mm
Smith & Wesson PC M986 SKU 10227 / Stainless Steel; Titanium Alloy Revolver 2.5" 9mm
Springfield Armory 1911 EMP Compact PI9209L / Alloy; Steel Pistol 3.1" 9mm
Springfield Armory PI9134L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9mm
Springfield Armory PX9130L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9101 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9201 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9301 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9401 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9801 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9811 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm
Springfield Armory XD9821 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" 9mm
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LCR 05456 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Revolver 1.87" 9mm
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LCRx 05464 / Steel Revolver 1.87" 9mm
Sturm, Ruger & Co. SP101 05783 / Steel Revolver 2.25" 9mm
Sturm, Ruger & Co. SP101, 05783A / Stainless Steel; Alloy Revolver 2.25" 9mm
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ) 83 (Glossy Blue) 01301 / Steel Pistol 3.81" .380 ACP
Accu-Tek AT-380 II / 17-4 Stainless Steel Pistol 2.8" .380 ACP
Bersa Firestorm 380 / 4140 Steel; Alloy Pistol 3.5" .380 ACP
Hi Point CF380 UPC#752334003805 / Polymer; Zinc Alloy; 4130 Barrel Pistol 3.5" .380 ACP
Kahr Arms P380 (KP38233/KP38233N) / Polymer Frame; Stainless Steel Slide Pistol 2.5" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer 238-380-TSS1-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 2.835" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer P232 (Stainless) 232-380-SSS / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.7" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer P232 (Stainless) Hogue Grips / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.7" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer P238 238-380-TSS2-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 2.835" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer P238 (Two-Tone) 238-380-TSS-CA / Stainless Steel; Alloy Pistol 2.835" .380 ACP
Sig Sauer P238 238-380-HD-CA / Stainless Steel Pistol 2.82" .380 Auto
Sig Sauer P238 238-380-HD2-CA / Stainless Steel Pistol 2.82" .380 Auto
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LC380CA 03253 / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.12" .380 Auto
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LC380CA 13204 / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.12" .380 Auto
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LC380CA 13205 / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.12" .380 Auto
Sturm, Ruger & Co. LC380CA 13206 / Alloy; Polymer Pistol 3.12" .380 Auto
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Old June 10, 2022, 11:51 PM   #31
BourbonCowboy
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I just read through your choices in California...not a lot. I'd take a look at the HK P2000sk. It's not as small as some others, but it's a nice mix of size, accuracy and reliability.
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Old June 11, 2022, 10:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan0354 View Post
Hi

I put this post here because I am open to revolvers also. I researched a lot on mini size 380ACP or 9mm semi. I notice when the size goes down, reliability drops. It is natural that when size and weight is reduced, tolerance of parts become very critical, anything not perfect will cause problem. So far, I looked at small 380s like Ruger LCP380 and Kahr etc., they all seems to have problem in reliability. The only one that is a little more promising is the Glock 42 but I cannot get it in Kalifornia.

I even look at S&W 340PD revolvers because it's less than 12oz and can shoot 38+P. It's a little bulkier, but the lightest and absolutely win out in reliability department. Short coming is only 5 rounds and a little bulkier. Same hold true for Ruger LCR.

I am open for other suggestions.

Thanks
If you don't have a California Concealed Carry Permit, there is no reason to be interested in "mini" handguns. Of course I may be missing something.

The very small pistols and revolvers are very difficult to learn to shoot as they are designed for people who carry concealed.
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Old June 11, 2022, 08:51 PM   #33
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Since you noted that you prefer polymer frames, I note that on the list published by Onward Allusion the Kahr P380 is identified as legal in California.

https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/p380-w-lci-kp38233/

In the FWIW department, I have a Kahr P380 and it has somewhere between 3000 and 4000 rounds through it. In my opinion Kahr makes a very reliable .380 mini-pistol, although mine seems to prefer the standard magazines over the extended magazines. I recall you indicated you'd had reliability issues, and wondering what sort? Mine has been reasonably reliable with a wide variety of loads.

Nevertheless, I installed an XS tritium sight (https://xssights.com/ ) and am quite happy using the Kahr P380 as a true pocket pistol in a wide variety of scenarios.

Might be worth consideration.
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Old June 14, 2022, 07:04 AM   #34
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One poster back on pg. 1, commented on the difficulty of changing magazines on smaller framed guns....that's been my experience as well with size "L" hands. I own or have owned: a Sig P290, S&W 380 Bodyguard, several "J" frame Smith revolvers, and most recently a Sig P365. All of the preceding auto's are more difficult to reload/mag change than larger guns. And the revolvers, while slower to speed load than a compact or full size auto, are roughly the same as the smaller sized autos.

But of more importance to our (my wife's and mine) life style here in rural KY, is our ability to shoot our defensive guns well. And of all the listed above, the Sig P365 is by far the best...we shoot it at speed with comparable accuracy to the duty sized pieces in our safe. I was surprised to find that the gun was as accurate in deliberate slow fire mode, as any of our J frame 3" bbl'd Smiths when fired single action. Sig truly came up with a sure-fire winner with the P365. With great capacity (10 standard or 12 rounds with extender), it doubles a full cylinder load out of our J frames.

Since micro size was a part of the OP's original post, I'd say that the P365 is a bit big for pocket carry (the only true reason for a micro sized handgun) except in cold wx climates where a jacket or parka pocket offers more support. In that aspect, the P365's not competitive with say Ruger's LCP, Smith's Bodyguard 380, or one of the other micro 9's/.380's. But it shoots far better than they do too...an over riding consideration in my view. I'd discount the NAA micro revolvers for CC use as their chambering in .22 LR is just not a viable SD load IMHO, but YMMv.

The choice for me and mine remains; the P365...I'd say it's easily the best all around CC weapon I've found in 55+ years of carry...it excels in ergonomics (short of gun games mag change speeds), accuracy, capacity, and good sighting, and it's universal usefulness is amply attested to by the number of wannabe manufacturers who've copied it.

Best Regards, Rod



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Old June 15, 2022, 06:16 PM   #35
Mike38
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Quote:
I notice when the size goes down, reliability drops.
Not necessarily. I have over 300 rounds through my Kel-Tec P32 without a failure of any kind. 100 rounds of factory ammo and the rest my reloads.
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Old June 16, 2022, 06:08 AM   #36
HiBC
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Most everything is a tradeoff. You give up one thing to gain another.

"In the beginning" most of the standard size service/duty pistols and revolvers were designed to be "the sweet spot" for a sidearm.. Adequate power,mag capacity,ruggedness, reliability,and a reasonable compromise for bulk and weight.
From S+W K frames to 1911's and Commanders ,Glock 19's, Browning High Powers,etc.

If you have an occupation like Military or LEO, those would still be a first choice if going home safe at the end of the day depends on how well you gunfight.

Well,fact is,my 1911 mostly stayed home because I don't have one of those jobs and I already tend toward sagging pants. Its not pretty.

So I looked for something smaller and lighter for myself.

First,I don't have your hands. I don't wear your clothes,etc. I can't pick or suggest a dog,a wife,etc. Or a mini handgun.

There is no "instant pudding" recommendation.

I suggest you spend time in gun shops and gunshows asking first,then handling a variety of handguns. Figure out what gun feels at home in your hand. At some indoor range shops,you can shoot different guns.

Years ago I had a grinder bite a chunk out of the distal joint of my trigger finger. That joint grew a knot of arthritis and pretty much does not bend.

That poses a problem with proper trigger discipline and small framed guns.
Its time consuming and difficult for me to transition from trigger finger along the slide to trigger finger inside the trigger guard. No,the answer is NOT for me to expect range safety officers and fellow shooters to "understand".

I can't use just any gun. And I am forcing that joint to improve. I dry fire some every day,and train that finger.

No handgun recommendation would have allowed for that one problem. YOU must hands on discover what works/does not work for you.

I suggest you take a slightly different approach. Assess what is the BIGGEST gun that you can carry and conceal. Start there. You don't have to buy that gun, but I suggest get over the "cute and tiny" idea. Establish the limit,then explore.

Shot placement is key to making ANY handgun round stop an attack.

If something bad is happening to you, "One Thousand on,one thousand two"
Two seconds is a LONG time. Three might be too late, A reasonable goal is to be able to hit a cantaloupe size target at seven yards from a draw.

That might be more doable with a gun the size of a Glock 43 or a Shield Plus
(IMO,"Compacts" ) than some little bitty "cute" gun.

Try before you buy. Good hunting!

If you are going to pocket carry, I strongly recommend a pocket holster.

Last edited by HiBC; June 17, 2022 at 09:56 AM.
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Old June 16, 2022, 02:33 PM   #37
rodfac
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Excellent post HiBC...I'd add to mine the thought that given a one choice for carry purposes, I'd follow your advice...handle and shoot as many as possible...

then I'd add: buy the one that you shoot the best and figure out a way to carry it concealed...most any pistol or revolver is concealable if you put your mind to it and accept some reasonable wardrobe choices.

I carry nearly 100% of the time and find the OWB type holsters the best choice...short of Speedo's and a wife-beater t-shirt, it works well. YMMv.

Best Regards, Rod
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Old June 17, 2022, 01:37 PM   #38
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The reliability of "mini" or "subcompact" semi-autos will vary depending on a lot of factors not the least of which is the shooter. In order for a semi-automatic handgun to work reliably, you have to have a balance of a heavy enough recoil spring to reliably feed cartridges into the chamber while not being so heavy as to not allow the slide to cycle back far enough to reliably eject spent casings and a frame which is held firmly enough to not to interfere with the above mentioned cycling of the slide. When you make a gun smaller and lighter, especially when you're still trying to use a reasonably powerful cartridge, this can become quite complicated.

When you start making the slide and frame smaller (and thus lighter), the tolerances of what will work and what won't become much narrower. Part of the reason for this is that most shooters can more easily resist movement of the frame during recoil with a heavier frame that allows a more full grip. Grip strength and the size and shape of the shooter's hands can play a large role in this. For example, my father once owned a Walther PPk/S in .380 that, unless he held it with a white-knuckle death grip, couldn't get through a full magazine without a malfunction. However, that same gun would run quite reliably with the same ammunition in my hands and my own Walther PP in .32 would run reliably for both of us. The only conclusion that I can come to is that Walther PP series pistols don't fit my father's hands all that well and the increased recoil of the .380 over the .32 was just enough to make it unreliable in his hands.
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Old June 17, 2022, 04:33 PM   #39
stinkeypete
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My hat is off to Rodfac for posting his group and distance. That’s a very respectable group!

You get what you like.

For me, I will always go larger for more control and longer sight radius. I carry in the field, for woods bumming. Rod’s P365 would work for me; anything in the G19 size range is about as small as I care for. I can’t abide the Glock Mush trigger, though, and I prefer revolvers since they don’t throw my perfectly good brass into the long grass or pine needles.
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Old June 20, 2022, 03:36 PM   #40
CZRex
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why go the .380 route when you can just as easily pocket carry a 9mm, in this case a Sig P365? And if you do like I did, you can swap out the mag springs for MAGGUTS springs and add 2 to the capacity without lengthening the grip. My 10rd mag now holds 12 and the 12rd mag now holds 14! 14+1 in a package as small as the P365 is hard to beat. My 365 was a more comfortable shooter than my S'field Hellcat so I sold the Hellcat.
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Old June 20, 2022, 05:44 PM   #41
buck460XVR
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Quote:
I notice when the size goes down, reliability drops.
I have a Kimber Micro .380. Got about 400 rounds thru it, half factory and half my own homerolled. Yet to experience any form of a hiccup. Pretty accurate and fun to shoot. Can't say that about too may micro sized pistols. My other regular CWC is a S&W 637. It seems huge compared to the lil' Kimber.
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Old June 20, 2022, 08:43 PM   #42
Laz
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I believe there is a California version of the SIG P238 in .380, is there not?
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Old June 21, 2022, 08:15 AM   #43
Gas Bag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan0354 View Post
Hi

I put this post here because I am open to revolvers also. I researched a lot on mini size 380ACP or 9mm semi. I notice when the size goes down, reliability drops. It is natural that when size and weight is reduced, tolerance of parts become very critical, anything not perfect will cause problem. So far, I looked at small 380s like Ruger LCP380 and Kahr etc., they all seems to have problem in reliability. The only one that is a little more promising is the Glock 42 but I cannot get it in Kalifornia.

I even look at S&W 340PD revolvers because it's less than 12oz and can shoot 38+P. It's a little bulkier, but the lightest and absolutely win out in reliability department. Short coming is only 5 rounds and a little bulkier. Same hold true for Ruger LCR.

I am open for other suggestions.

Thanks
If you can’t get a mini .380 Glock, then the S&W 340PD is a good alternative. From my short experience, the small Glocks are very dependable. And the mid size .40 Glocks are too, I would trust them with my life.

But, I think that I am going to get a Beretta Compact 9mm myself.

Last edited by Gas Bag; June 21, 2022 at 08:22 AM.
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Old June 21, 2022, 11:10 AM   #44
Drm50
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I find that within reason trigger pull is not an issue with CCW guns. Also they only need practical accuracy for the job they are intended for. They ain’t bullseye guns. If it can’t be pointed and shot into center of mass out to 20’ it’s useless for most people.
I don’t like plastic pistols of any kind but there is no comparison to them for carry pieces. The only CCW type gun I had was a PP .32. Very nice pistol, WW2 issue. It is a brick compared to many plastics.
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Old June 21, 2022, 01:32 PM   #45
TailGator
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Quote:
I believe there is a California version of the SIG P238 in .380, is there not?
It isn't on the list in Post #30. Nice little pistol, but if that list is correct, its a no-go.
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Old June 22, 2022, 03:47 PM   #46
Onward Allusion
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Here's a link to that California list of approved guns.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search
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Old June 23, 2022, 03:09 PM   #47
TailGator
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Four models of the Sig P238 show up on the list from the link posted by Onward Allusion. The different models only differ in cosmetics, not in function, so picking one of those would be a good option. They - or at least our two - shoot really well, remarkably so for such a small pistol. Thanks, OA, for the correction.
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Old June 24, 2022, 09:50 AM   #48
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Another vote to check out the Ruger LCP. I tend to carry a bit larger gun when clothing options make it possible. But if not a LCP in a belly band can be worn under just about anything short of a speedo
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