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July 1, 2014, 10:22 AM | #1 |
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Illegal to sell a gun for profit without dealer lic.
This was a local flea market open on weekends. Several booths had a couple of firearms for sale most weeks but not as dealers.They had other stuff for sale in the booth also.
The DA stated that congress had a rule " Congress included if someone chose to deal in firearms, or sell firearms for profit, then they’re required to be licensed." I had never heard of that "rule". Can someone enlighten me. http://www.jcfloridan.com/news/crime...3daac3dbd.html |
July 1, 2014, 10:27 AM | #2 |
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It's been discussed here before, the gist I got was that it's legal to sell your own stuff for profit but you can't turn it into a business. What turning it into a business means is the gray area. There's no hard number of firearms sold or attempted to be sold in any given time period. The guy who goes once to sell the rifle his grandpa left him in a will probably isn't in the business. The guy who goes every week, replacing what he sold last time with unfired still in the box firearms probably is. Nobody really knows where the line in the middle is.
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July 1, 2014, 10:39 AM | #3 |
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The guns that I saw were used and very used. Nothing new. sometimes the same gun for several weeks.
Is there a rule that says if you sell a gun for a profit that you must be a dealer? Did congress make the "rule" or ATF? If you sell a gun to a convicted felon how are you to know? I am sure that the felon would lie if you asked. Just anybody cannot call for a check with the feds so how can you be safe selling a gun? |
July 1, 2014, 10:41 AM | #4 |
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Well new isn't required either... someone who makes a living off of nothing more than buying up every Garand (or whatever) and touring the country's gun shows to resell them is probably in the business as well. The line, whereever it may be is in how much they sell or try to sell how long after they get it and what ever else they may or may not do with it.
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July 1, 2014, 10:41 AM | #5 | ||||||||
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July 1, 2014, 10:43 AM | #6 |
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Kind of confusing with no clear line is what I get. Thanks Jim, I am going to keep what ever guns I have left after the boating accident.
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July 1, 2014, 11:09 AM | #7 |
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Frank answered far better than I could have hoped to.
If you DO want to sell your firearms, and you are worried it will be enough to garner attention from prosecutors, you CAN require your sales go through a licensee and probably avoid this problem. |
July 1, 2014, 11:10 AM | #8 |
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If you're selling off unwanted items from your collection, you should be OK.
If you are acquiring guns to sell, profit or not, you are a dealer. No law says private sales may not be processed by an FFL, talk to your local dealers, see if you can make a deal. For just a few guns, I'd just put them on consignment with an FFL rather than sit at a table for three weekends in a row. |
July 1, 2014, 01:54 PM | #9 | |
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18 USC 921(a)(21)(C) says that it is unlawful to engage in the "repetitive purchase and resale" of firearms without a license- note my emphasis on the word "and". It does not prohibit the mere repetitive purchase of firearms for resale at a profit; it simply requires one to get a license prior to reselling the firearms. In other words, it does NOT necessarily require the seller to have a FFL prior to acquisition of the goods.* (*Take note that purchasing goods- guns or otherwise!- solely for the purpose of eventual future resale may run afoul of state sales tax and use laws if one does not first obtain the requisite licenses or permits; however, this is a different and very complicated topic that is well beyond the scope of this thread, and I don't think any of us intend to discuss it further. ) Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.
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July 1, 2014, 02:07 PM | #10 |
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But then there are the people who are denied a FFL on the grounds that they are not proposing to make sufficient of a business out of it.
Seems the feds want to keep you guessing. |
July 1, 2014, 02:08 PM | #11 | |
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Buying it from a dealer, with a PRIOR AGREEMENT to sell it to a third party is part of the very definition of a straw purchase but it is still not engaging in being a dealer without a license. Frank lays out the relevant laws in his post and there is not a thing there that says you can't buy a gun with the intent of reselling it. Nor is there anything there that says you can do it once but not twice or twice but not three times, etc.
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July 1, 2014, 02:21 PM | #12 |
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I should have been more clear, intended to to say if you are selling items from your collection, you are OK, but if at the same time you are acquiring more to sell, and putting them on your sales table, you're a dealer, and the occasional sale defense is a fiction.
I do buy guns for investment sometimes, that won't make me a dealer. |
July 1, 2014, 02:24 PM | #13 |
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I guess we're all dealers then
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July 1, 2014, 02:26 PM | #14 |
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If they are engaged in the "BUSINESS" of selling firearms they need a license. That is the FEDERAL law.
Occasionally selling off your personal FAs, even at a profit does not require a license. The question arises when you are regularly selling off your "collection" every weekend with new inventory and "getting" firearms that people place orders for. This tends to look more like a business and would require a license. I can't speak to the crazy laws in some states, but this is the FEDERAL position. |
July 1, 2014, 02:56 PM | #15 | |
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At what point does it become "regular course of trade?" There's no exact number, but I've not heard of the ATF prosecuting anyone for selling a couple of guns here and there. Someone who maintains a regular commercial presence at a gun show is a different matter.
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July 1, 2014, 03:17 PM | #16 | ||
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If you sold one or two guns out of your safe last year, you're not a dealer -- even if you made a handsome profit. If you're at the local flea market each week with a few different guns to sell, you should reasonably expect your activities to come to the attention of a federal grand jury. But no one can really tell you with much certainty where between those two extremes you need to start worrying.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 1, 2014, 04:17 PM | #17 |
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If that were true,,,
If that were true,,,
I would bet most of us,,, Are in danger of being arrested. Aarond .
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Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time) |
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