45 ACP lead bullets

oldbear1950 · July 19, 2022, 01:29 PM

This is the first time I loaded for 45 acp. loaded some round nose flat top, cast bullets, and some fed and worked ok, some failed to feed, and some failed to lock into battery. I would reload into same or another mag and they worked, sometimes. All but four fired with no pierced primers, no bulged cases, so would leave me to believe no pressure signs. But is it possible a factory crimp die would have solved these problems? Had four cartridges failed to feed, case rims messed up, all other fired, two full boxes. I load for 38 special and 45 colt both revolvers, and no problem. This problem persisted in two different 1911s. When I fired factory ammo, no problem either gun. Was just my reloads. Is the first time I loaded for an autoloader.

akinswi · July 19, 2022, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

This is the first time I loaded for 45 acp. loaded some round nose flat top, cast bullets, and some fed and worked ok, some failed to feed, and some failed to lock into battery. I would reload into same or another mag and they worked, sometimes. All but four fired with no pierced primers, no bulged cases, so would leave me to believe no pressure signs. But is it possible a factory crimp die would have solved these problems? Had four cartridges failed to feed, case rims messed up, all other fired, two full boxes. I load for 38 special and 45 colt both revolvers, and no problem. This problem persisted in two different 1911s. When I fired factory ammo, no problem either gun. Was just my reloads. Is the first time I loaded for an autoloader.

oldbear, does your 1911 have a polished feed ramp? I ask because my SA Range officer doesn’t and it hates cast lead, same ammo in my series 80 colt gold cup that does have polished ramp no issues whatsoever

It really does help to have the feed ramp polished for cast lead IMHO

Mike38 · July 19, 2022, 07:43 PM

Failed to lock into battery? Is the overall length too long? I have four M1911 pistols and one of them has a short chamber that requires an overall length 0.030 shorter than the other three. If I forget and try to shoot the longer stuff, I get all kinds of failures.

akinswi · July 19, 2022, 08:29 PM

Mike,

Its been my experience if the OAL is too long they usually wont fit correctly in the magazine,

Also if the feed ramp is catching an edge it can slow down the slide from chambering a rd into battery, hence why most 1911s that want to reliably feed anything than ball ammo that ramp needs to be polished.

The next thing I would check is drop test a rd in the barrel too see if they chamber correctly.

Old bear what are your cast bullets sized too?

L. Boscoe · July 19, 2022, 08:34 PM

Looks like you found most of the answers-I load to an OAL of 1.210, and all of my 45's will accept them in SWC, FMJ or HP. The crimp is a taper crimp, not a roll crimp, and Akinswi is correct about the plunk and spin test- you can buy a nice die to check your diameters, but the main thing is the OAL, since the 45 seats on the brass, not on the bullet, (I'm 90% sure of that)

cdoc42 · July 19, 2022, 08:34 PM

oldbear1950, two problems I found with failure to feed or lock up properly are cases may be too long or too short. If too long they just won't fit. The same is true if the bullet isn't seated deeply enough. If too short, even if you use a taper crimp it may not crimp at all, leaving the mouth too large to chamber.

I have not had this problem with 45 ACP in my 1911, but I did experience in both 9mm and .380 Auto, and the .380 is a 1911 model.

You are no doubt using a roll crimp in the .38 and .45 Colt, but are you using a taper crimp in the .45 ACP? If, so, maybe you need to adjust the die to make a tighter taper.

Hawg · July 19, 2022, 09:47 PM

Contrary to popular belief you can headspace on a bullet. Maybe you're not seating them deep enough. When I reload for .45 ACP I take the barrel out and check every 5 rounds or so by dropping them in the chamber. The rim needs to be just below flush with jacketed bullets or flush with a lead bullet.

chris in va · July 19, 2022, 11:42 PM

Also check the diameter, when I cast mine it gets run through a 452 sizing die before and after I powdercoat.

Nathan · July 20, 2022, 05:14 AM

Simple tips for feeding…..

First, your ammo needs to fit into a case gauge or chamber.

It should also pass the plunk test….YouTube has many videos by this name. With this you are confirming that the case stops on the headspacing ridge on the chamber before the bullet sticks in the rifling.

Next, confirm your extractor holds a loaded round, but just barely. There is a fine line between too tight and too loose. Related to that, you need to understand why case rims are being damaged.

Next, make sure your neck tension/crimp will hold a bullet for 5 feedings. Less than 0.005” movement allowed total.

Also, start testing feeding with the longest oal that fits in mags and passes plunk test. Shorten to speed up feeding until reliability is achieved. Typically, this is about the oal of factory ammo.

Lee FCD dies are not used on my bench anymore because they hide other reloading issues and generally hurt accuracy. I do use an extra Lee taper crimp die to minimize crimping im my seater. I crimp to iron out the bell in my seater. Then I crimp just a bit more in a separate taper crimp die.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 20, 2022, 06:23 AM

Oldbear is loading flat-point bullets, most of which (that I have encountered) are shaped like a standard round-nose but the tip is chopped off. You can't use the C.O.A.L. for round-nose bullets, or the shoulder/ogive of the bullet will be too far out of the case and will engage the rifling before the case mouth reaches the headspacing shoulder in the chamber.

oldbear1950 · July 20, 2022, 10:32 AM

all I know is sometimes I will get three or four to work , sometimes the whole magazine, then the next magazine full will get 2 or 3, sometimes 4, then hangup, or not lock into battery. when that happens I clear the gun, load the magazine again and it works, same magazine, same cartridges, then hangups again. Is confusing why some work and some do not. They were all loaded in he same session, same crimp, same powder .charge, same oal, same everything

oldbear1950 · July 20, 2022, 10:36 AM

and happens to 2 different 1911s, different companies manufactured them. But switching to factory ammo, both work fine with the same magazines that I had the problem with. Since I last had a range session, I cleaned, Micked , changed springs and followers in all my 45 magazines to shooting stars. No problem with any of them in factory ammo

oldbear1950 · July 20, 2022, 10:42 AM

I would like to thank you all for the info , and I remember my deceased brother had a springfield armory 1911 9 mm, he could not get to work at all with cast bullets, he had been casting his own bullets for about 30 years with no problem. He did everything he could think of, changed to new and different magazines, changed the springs and followers, even talked springfield armory to exchanging barrels, still it did not work, he finally bought three new molds, and found one that worked. So yeah, I know just takes time.

oldbear1950 · July 20, 2022, 10:43 AM

and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets

ballardw · July 20, 2022, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Oldbear is loading flat-point bullets, most of which (that I have encountered) are shaped like a standard round-nose but the tip is chopped off. You can't use the C.O.A.L. for round-nose bullets, or the shoulder/ogive of the bullet will be too far out of the case and will engage the rifling before the case mouth reaches the headspacing shoulder in the chamber.

But is the "standard round-nose" that of a revolver round or the profile of an FMJ bullet.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the profile is just enough wider at some point than the FMJ that a marginal fit might be an issue. The ogive would not have been sized so minor variations from casting, either different molds, chambers of mold or just temperature differences when you were casting the bullets might mean those minor differences happen intermittently.

Perhaps the plunk test of a few rounds will indicate the bullet just contacting the lands? Maybe smoke a few rounds to see if that shows.

lll Otto lll · July 20, 2022, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

This is the first time I loaded for 45 acp. loaded some round nose flat top, cast bullets.......

Brand? Weight? Place of purchase?

reddog81 · July 20, 2022, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets

I don't know about that. I have a dozen+ 9mm and about just as many 45's. Some guns might have a shorter throat, tighter chamber, goofy feed ramp, weird magazine lips that require you to modify your reloading practices but I have always got my cast bullets to work.

For 1911's I have probably at least of dozen different types of magazines and I think I have 2 that are junk and would probably choke on RN FMJ. Any of the other ones will work unmodified with any bullet I have tried and I use anything from 155 grain SWC to 250 grain WFN. The 250 grain WFN needs to be seated deep and use nothing but a light charge of powder but it can work.

Don P · July 20, 2022, 02:23 PM

Quote:

and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets

I have shot plenty of lead bullets.
First off what is you OAL (overall length) of your finished round. Sounds like your ammo is too long and the bullet is hitting the rifling in the barrel

Jim Watson · July 20, 2022, 02:49 PM

There are two flat nosed .45 bullets that I have seen.
One is the cast version of the Hornady USAF design, a truncated cone. It loads shorter than roundnose.
The other is meant for revolvers and lever actions with a very flat nose and a crimp groove. It loads even shorter.

I have loaded both of those, two or three different semiwadcutters; and while a "throated" gun will do pretty well, none are as reliable as plain old roundnose. I have quit trying anything else. I have found brands of 200 grain roundnose that feed well and give me the ballistics I want. Coated, of course.

akinswi · July 21, 2022, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

There are two flat nosed .45 bullets that I have seen.
One is the cast version of the Hornady USAF design, a truncated cone. It loads shorter than roundnose.
The other is meant for revolvers and lever actions with a very flat nose and a crimp groove. It loads even shorter.

I have loaded both of those, two or three different semiwadcutters; and while a "throated" gun will do pretty well, none are as reliable as plain old roundnose. I have quit trying anything else. I have found brands of 200 grain roundnose that feed well and give me the ballistics I want. Coated, of course.

Jim,

The 1911 is remarkably reliable with Round nose rds, I just load 230 grain plated bullets now.

totaldla · July 22, 2022, 10:09 AM

One of these days all the knowledgeable geezers will be gone. This information should be made available online. I.e. there should be a sticky on loading pistol cartridges.

Btw, it is easy to get faked out by plunk test if you don't know the difference in sound between lead and brass.

And BTW again, SAAMI screwed up with the 45acp by allowing such a short throat.

Nathan · July 22, 2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets

That might be true from from an accuracy viewpoint, but I would have a hard time accepting that from a feed standpoint.

You have pointed out several feed issues with the gun/ammo combination. You can work through then.

**44 AMP** · July 22, 2022, 06:32 PM

Quote:

And BTW again, SAAMI screwed up with the 45acp by allowing such a short throat.

Not sure what you mean by that.

**Unclenick** · July 22, 2022, 08:52 PM

...And I disagree with it. Headspacing on the bullet, as I described, would be impossible with a long throat, and a key accuracy option would effectively be gone (it cut my 185-grain swaged SWC groups by 40%). That said, you can buy a throating reamer from Clymer and make the throat longer if that's really what you want.

Oldbear1950,

If you look at bullets intended for 45 Auto, you will find a couple of different profiles for round noses. The military bullet is an elliptical profile, while the cast bullet profiles are often a tapered ogive capped with a hemispherical shape. The round nose flat "point" (I've never figured out how a point can be flat) bullets are generally intended for CAS loads in revolvers and lever guns, and their ogive profiles are fatter near the heel of the bullet than typical 45 Auto bullet designs. This could well be contributing to your troubles.

zeke · July 23, 2022, 07:05 AM

Tough to help without knowing what the specifics on the bullet and load are. Like precisely what bullet is being used in combination with what col and loading procedure. Am using a lot of 200 gn lrnfp's. The standard ones do not reach full dia (front to back) till before the crimp groove. With the lube channel, there is very little full dia (usually .452) for the interference fit, and can set back substantially if they interference fit is not tight enough.

The 255 gn version has a full dia for short distance in front of the lube channel. The standard lrnfp's have pretty small flat noses, and feed extremely well in my experience. They may also be loaded to head space on the bullet, if that col is compatible with an individual pistol.

There are also wider nose flat points that can be trouble some due to the width of the flat nose hanging up while transitioning to the chamber.

July 19, 2022, 01:29 PM	#1
oldbear1950 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2022 Posts: 213	45 ACP lead bullets This is the first time I loaded for 45 acp. loaded some round nose flat top, cast bullets, and some fed and worked ok, some failed to feed, and some failed to lock into battery. I would reload into same or another mag and they worked, sometimes. All but four fired with no pierced primers, no bulged cases, so would leave me to believe no pressure signs. But is it possible a factory crimp die would have solved these problems? Had four cartridges failed to feed, case rims messed up, all other fired, two full boxes. I load for 38 special and 45 colt both revolvers, and no problem. This problem persisted in two different 1911s. When I fired factory ammo, no problem either gun. Was just my reloads. Is the first time I loaded for an autoloader.

July 20, 2022, 06:23 AM	#10
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,537	Oldbear is loading flat-point bullets, most of which (that I have encountered) are shaped like a standard round-nose but the tip is chopped off. You can't use the C.O.A.L. for round-nose bullets, or the shoulder/ogive of the bullet will be too far out of the case and will engage the rifling before the case mouth reaches the headspacing shoulder in the chamber. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

July 22, 2022, 10:09 AM	#21
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,332	One of these days all the knowledgeable geezers will be gone. This information should be made available online. I.e. there should be a sticky on loading pistol cartridges. Btw, it is easy to get faked out by plunk test if you don't know the difference in sound between lead and brass. And BTW again, SAAMI screwed up with the 45acp by allowing such a short throat. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

July 22, 2022, 08:52 PM	#24
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,130	...And I disagree with it. Headspacing on the bullet, as I described, would be impossible with a long throat, and a key accuracy option would effectively be gone (it cut my 185-grain swaged SWC groups by 40%). That said, you can buy a throating reamer from Clymer and make the throat longer if that's really what you want. Oldbear1950, If you look at bullets intended for 45 Auto, you will find a couple of different profiles for round noses. The military bullet is an elliptical profile, while the cast bullet profiles are often a tapered ogive capped with a hemispherical shape. The round nose flat "point" (I've never figured out how a point can be flat) bullets are generally intended for CAS loads in revolvers and lever guns, and their ogive profiles are fatter near the heel of the bullet than typical 45 Auto bullet designs. This could well be contributing to your troubles. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 19, 2022, 07:43 PM	#3
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,718	Failed to lock into battery? Is the overall length too long? I have four M1911 pistols and one of them has a short chamber that requires an overall length 0.030 shorter than the other three. If I forget and try to shoot the longer stuff, I get all kinds of failures.

July 19, 2022, 08:29 PM	#4
akinswi Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: Bowling Green, Ky Posts: 715	Mike, Its been my experience if the OAL is too long they usually wont fit correctly in the magazine, Also if the feed ramp is catching an edge it can slow down the slide from chambering a rd into battery, hence why most 1911s that want to reliably feed anything than ball ammo that ramp needs to be polished. The next thing I would check is drop test a rd in the barrel too see if they chamber correctly. Old bear what are your cast bullets sized too?

July 19, 2022, 08:34 PM	#5
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 290	Looks like you found most of the answers-I load to an OAL of 1.210, and all of my 45's will accept them in SWC, FMJ or HP. The crimp is a taper crimp, not a roll crimp, and Akinswi is correct about the plunk and spin test- you can buy a nice die to check your diameters, but the main thing is the OAL, since the 45 seats on the brass, not on the bullet, (I'm 90% sure of that)

July 19, 2022, 08:34 PM	#6
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,698	oldbear1950, two problems I found with failure to feed or lock up properly are cases may be too long or too short. If too long they just won't fit. The same is true if the bullet isn't seated deeply enough. If too short, even if you use a taper crimp it may not crimp at all, leaving the mouth too large to chamber. I have not had this problem with 45 ACP in my 1911, but I did experience in both 9mm and .380 Auto, and the .380 is a 1911 model. You are no doubt using a roll crimp in the .38 and .45 Colt, but are you using a taper crimp in the .45 ACP? If, so, maybe you need to adjust the die to make a tighter taper.

July 19, 2022, 09:47 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,214	Contrary to popular belief you can headspace on a bullet. Maybe you're not seating them deep enough. When I reload for .45 ACP I take the barrel out and check every 5 rounds or so by dropping them in the chamber. The rim needs to be just below flush with jacketed bullets or flush with a lead bullet.

July 19, 2022, 11:42 PM	#8
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Also check the diameter, when I cast mine it gets run through a 452 sizing die before and after I powdercoat.

July 20, 2022, 05:14 AM	#9
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,368	Simple tips for feeding….. First, your ammo needs to fit into a case gauge or chamber. It should also pass the plunk test….YouTube has many videos by this name. With this you are confirming that the case stops on the headspacing ridge on the chamber before the bullet sticks in the rifling. Next, confirm your extractor holds a loaded round, but just barely. There is a fine line between too tight and too loose. Related to that, you need to understand why case rims are being damaged. Next, make sure your neck tension/crimp will hold a bullet for 5 feedings. Less than 0.005” movement allowed total. Also, start testing feeding with the longest oal that fits in mags and passes plunk test. Shorten to speed up feeding until reliability is achieved. Typically, this is about the oal of factory ammo. Lee FCD dies are not used on my bench anymore because they hide other reloading issues and generally hurt accuracy. I do use an extra Lee taper crimp die to minimize crimping im my seater. I crimp to iron out the bell in my seater. Then I crimp just a bit more in a separate taper crimp die.

July 20, 2022, 10:32 AM	#11
oldbear1950 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2022 Posts: 213	all I know is sometimes I will get three or four to work , sometimes the whole magazine, then the next magazine full will get 2 or 3, sometimes 4, then hangup, or not lock into battery. when that happens I clear the gun, load the magazine again and it works, same magazine, same cartridges, then hangups again. Is confusing why some work and some do not. They were all loaded in he same session, same crimp, same powder .charge, same oal, same everything

July 20, 2022, 10:36 AM	#12
oldbear1950 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2022 Posts: 213	and happens to 2 different 1911s, different companies manufactured them. But switching to factory ammo, both work fine with the same magazines that I had the problem with. Since I last had a range session, I cleaned, Micked , changed springs and followers in all my 45 magazines to shooting stars. No problem with any of them in factory ammo

July 20, 2022, 10:42 AM	#13
oldbear1950 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2022 Posts: 213	I would like to thank you all for the info , and I remember my deceased brother had a springfield armory 1911 9 mm, he could not get to work at all with cast bullets, he had been casting his own bullets for about 30 years with no problem. He did everything he could think of, changed to new and different magazines, changed the springs and followers, even talked springfield armory to exchanging barrels, still it did not work, he finally bought three new molds, and found one that worked. So yeah, I know just takes time.

July 20, 2022, 10:43 AM	#14
oldbear1950 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2022 Posts: 213	and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets

July 20, 2022, 02:49 PM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,620	There are two flat nosed .45 bullets that I have seen. One is the cast version of the Hornady USAF design, a truncated cone. It loads shorter than roundnose. The other is meant for revolvers and lever actions with a very flat nose and a crimp groove. It loads even shorter. I have loaded both of those, two or three different semiwadcutters; and while a "throated" gun will do pretty well, none are as reliable as plain old roundnose. I have quit trying anything else. I have found brands of 200 grain roundnose that feed well and give me the ballistics I want. Coated, of course.

July 23, 2022, 07:05 AM	#25
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,678	Tough to help without knowing what the specifics on the bullet and load are. Like precisely what bullet is being used in combination with what col and loading procedure. Am using a lot of 200 gn lrnfp's. The standard ones do not reach full dia (front to back) till before the crimp groove. With the lube channel, there is very little full dia (usually .452) for the interference fit, and can set back substantially if they interference fit is not tight enough. The 255 gn version has a full dia for short distance in front of the lube channel. The standard lrnfp's have pretty small flat noses, and feed extremely well in my experience. They may also be loaded to head space on the bullet, if that col is compatible with an individual pistol. There are also wider nose flat points that can be trouble some due to the width of the flat nose hanging up while transitioning to the chamber.