38-55 case length ?

Win38-55 · March 7, 2017, 02:30 PM

Hello, I have been reloading handgun cartridges enough that I feel comfortable.
I want to expand to rifle. I have a Winchester 38-55 1894 rifle. It is old. I am looking to get new cases for it. Looking at Starlines offering and they have two different lengths
38-55 Win, 38-55 Winchester, 38-55 Ballard
2.076 - 2.082 O.A.L.

38-55 Win, 38-55 Winchester, 38-55 (2.125), 38-55 Ballard
2.122 - 2.130 O.A.L.

Not sure which to get. Just looking to get some shells ahead not anything special. Old family gun.

ammo.crafter · March 7, 2017, 02:41 PM

Who is the manufacturer of the rifle and was it made to shoot modern powder?

They should be able to provide casting specifications for you.

Bear in mind, you can make brass casings for the 38-55 easily from 30-30 as well as 32-40-
You can mechanically expand them to 38cal prior to fire-forming as noted above, or you can just go straight to the fire-forming process.
For fire-forming, you would load a small charge of fast-burning powder, such as Bullseye, put a thin wad of cardboard over the charge, and fill the case with cereal such as Cream of Wheat or grits, and another cardboard wad. Keeping the muzzle on your 38-55 pointed up, you fire your charged cases, and extract your new 38-55 cases. Very easy to do, and you end up with a serviceable case that is just a bit short, but will work just fine.

ligonierbill · March 7, 2017, 03:09 PM

Go back to Starline's website and look for their writeup on this subject. I am loading for a '94, but it is a modern rifle that was rebored to 38-55. I bought the longer brass and found myself trimming them back to 2.076 to load Meister 245 cast to a COL of 2.510. Any longer, and they don't cycle well. I believe the longer brass is for the Ballards, but I could be (and was) wrong. If in doubt, give them a call. Suggest looking at Lyman for loads.

CoastRange · March 7, 2017, 03:14 PM

A serial number would help us to know how "old" the rifle is.

From what you've stated about being in the family for quite some time, I'm assuming it is a serial number 500,000 or less. These older Winchesters take the longer Starline brass: 2.125.

Also, when you look for bullets, DO NOT use the modern-Winchester .38-55 slugs; they are too small. You will likely do well to slug your bore. The old Winchesters are noted to have varied diameters. Yours might measure .380-.383.

Same thing with the Oliver Winchester and Legendary Frontiersmen cartridges--they are for the smaller bored, modern guns. NOT to be used in your rifle.

**Unclenick** · March 7, 2017, 04:41 PM

If you are unfamiliar with the process, Meister bullets has bore slugging kits and a description of the process. It's a good idea to do this. The older the gun, the better the idea is, as they didn't always hold tolerances as well in the old days as they can now.

Win38-55 · March 8, 2017, 05:56 AM

Hello, Thank you all for taking the time for my question. Looks like a little more research is in order. Will do.

steveno · March 8, 2017, 08:04 AM

in Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West" he uses cases with an oal of 2.129. it is a good book to read for the information even if you don't own a lever action rifle

T. O'Heir · March 8, 2017, 02:23 PM

.38-55 Win, .38-55 Winchester and .38-55 Ballard are all the same thing.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3855.jpg
SAAMI Max case length is 2.085" -.020". That'd be 2.085" minus .020"=1.885". Trim-to is 2.075". Page 137 of the SAAMI Standards .pdf.
Bullet diameter is .377". Rifling groove diameters are well known for being variable. Slug your barrel with a cast bullet(a .375" will do) a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet.
Max OAL with the bullet is 2.510". Minimum is 2.470" from the pointy end to the flat end. No ogives.

Jim Watson · March 8, 2017, 02:46 PM

Original .38-55 case length was 2 1/8".
"Modern" spec is 2.085".
In 1976 Ken Waters was using old stock RP cases at 2.12", the caliber was not then in production. He also used expanded .32 WS at 2.05" and said they did ok.

As said, slug your barrel and use bullets to fit. My 1885 Single Shot is .3785" and I load .379" bullets because that is what my mold delivers to be shot as cast. I would use .380" if I had them.

ligonierbill · March 8, 2017, 02:46 PM

See Starline's website for an explanation of why they sell two different lengths.

CoastRange · March 8, 2017, 03:39 PM

" T. O'Heir

.38-55 Win, .38-55 Winchester and .38-55 Ballard are all the same thing.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3855.jpg
SAAMI Max case length is 2.085" -.020". That'd be 2.085" minus .020"=1.885". Trim-to is 2.075". Page 137 of the SAAMI Standards .pdf.
Bullet diameter is .377". Rifling groove diameters are well known for being variable. Slug your barrel with a cast bullet(a .375" will do) a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet.
Max OAL with the bullet is 2.510". Minimum is 2.470" from the pointy end to the flat end. No ogives.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!"

I agree; spelling and grammar do matter.

I disagree with your advice. The information you offered is not appropriate for original "OLD" Model 1894 Winchester .38-55's. The cases you recommend are too short. The bullet is too small.

The modern/commemorative rifles are not chambered and bored with the same dimensions as original .38-55's.

Nothing good would come from Win38-55 shooting from his rifle cartridges with the specs you advise.

Dufus · March 8, 2017, 04:45 PM

My gun shoots the long brass and a 0.382" cast bullet.

I had a 0.381" sizer die and honed it to 0.382"

My rifle's bore slugged at 0.381"

Custom mold from Accurate Molds casts a 0.382" bullet. I run it thru the sizer die to true it up and to lube.

I used a flattened 45 cal ball to slug the bore....because I had some.

March 7, 2017, 02:30 PM	#1
Win38-55 Junior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Maine Posts: 6	38-55 case length ? Hello, I have been reloading handgun cartridges enough that I feel comfortable. I want to expand to rifle. I have a Winchester 38-55 1894 rifle. It is old. I am looking to get new cases for it. Looking at Starlines offering and they have two different lengths 38-55 Win, 38-55 Winchester, 38-55 Ballard 2.076 - 2.082 O.A.L. 38-55 Win, 38-55 Winchester, 38-55 (2.125), 38-55 Ballard 2.122 - 2.130 O.A.L. Not sure which to get. Just looking to get some shells ahead not anything special. Old family gun. __________________ Martial

March 7, 2017, 02:41 PM	#2
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	Ballard Who is the manufacturer of the rifle and was it made to shoot modern powder? They should be able to provide casting specifications for you. Bear in mind, you can make brass casings for the 38-55 easily from 30-30 as well as 32-40- You can mechanically expand them to 38cal prior to fire-forming as noted above, or you can just go straight to the fire-forming process. For fire-forming, you would load a small charge of fast-burning powder, such as Bullseye, put a thin wad of cardboard over the charge, and fill the case with cereal such as Cream of Wheat or grits, and another cardboard wad. Keeping the muzzle on your 38-55 pointed up, you fire your charged cases, and extract your new 38-55 cases. Very easy to do, and you end up with a serviceable case that is just a bit short, but will work just fine. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

March 7, 2017, 03:14 PM	#4
CoastRange Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2017 Posts: 9	A serial number would help us to know how "old" the rifle is. From what you've stated about being in the family for quite some time, I'm assuming it is a serial number 500,000 or less. These older Winchesters take the longer Starline brass: 2.125. Also, when you look for bullets, DO NOT use the modern-Winchester .38-55 slugs; they are too small. You will likely do well to slug your bore. The old Winchesters are noted to have varied diameters. Yours might measure .380-.383. Same thing with the Oliver Winchester and Legendary Frontiersmen cartridges--they are for the smaller bored, modern guns. NOT to be used in your rifle. Last edited by CoastRange; March 7, 2017 at 03:26 PM.

March 7, 2017, 04:41 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	If you are unfamiliar with the process, Meister bullets has bore slugging kits and a description of the process. It's a good idea to do this. The older the gun, the better the idea is, as they didn't always hold tolerances as well in the old days as they can now. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 8, 2017, 05:56 AM	#6
Win38-55 Junior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Maine Posts: 6	Hello, Thank you all for taking the time for my question. Looks like a little more research is in order. Will do. __________________ Martial

March 7, 2017, 03:09 PM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,459	Go back to Starline's website and look for their writeup on this subject. I am loading for a '94, but it is a modern rifle that was rebored to 38-55. I bought the longer brass and found myself trimming them back to 2.076 to load Meister 245 cast to a COL of 2.510. Any longer, and they don't cycle well. I believe the longer brass is for the Ballards, but I could be (and was) wrong. If in doubt, give them a call. Suggest looking at Lyman for loads.

March 8, 2017, 08:04 AM	#7
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	in Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West" he uses cases with an oal of 2.129. it is a good book to read for the information even if you don't own a lever action rifle

March 8, 2017, 02:23 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	.38-55 Win, .38-55 Winchester and .38-55 Ballard are all the same thing. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3855.jpg SAAMI Max case length is 2.085" -.020". That'd be 2.085" minus .020"=1.885". Trim-to is 2.075". Page 137 of the SAAMI Standards .pdf. Bullet diameter is .377". Rifling groove diameters are well known for being variable. Slug your barrel with a cast bullet(a .375" will do) a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet. Max OAL with the bullet is 2.510". Minimum is 2.470" from the pointy end to the flat end. No ogives. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 8, 2017, 02:46 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	Original .38-55 case length was 2 1/8". "Modern" spec is 2.085". In 1976 Ken Waters was using old stock RP cases at 2.12", the caliber was not then in production. He also used expanded .32 WS at 2.05" and said they did ok. As said, slug your barrel and use bullets to fit. My 1885 Single Shot is .3785" and I load .379" bullets because that is what my mold delivers to be shot as cast. I would use .380" if I had them.

March 8, 2017, 03:39 PM	#11
CoastRange Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2017 Posts: 9	" T. O'Heir .38-55 Win, .38-55 Winchester and .38-55 Ballard are all the same thing. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3855.jpg SAAMI Max case length is 2.085" -.020". That'd be 2.085" minus .020"=1.885". Trim-to is 2.075". Page 137 of the SAAMI Standards .pdf. Bullet diameter is .377". Rifling groove diameters are well known for being variable. Slug your barrel with a cast bullet(a .375" will do) a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet. Max OAL with the bullet is 2.510". Minimum is 2.470" from the pointy end to the flat end. No ogives. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!" I agree; spelling and grammar do matter. I disagree with your advice. The information you offered is not appropriate for original "OLD" Model 1894 Winchester .38-55's. The cases you recommend are too short. The bullet is too small. The modern/commemorative rifles are not chambered and bored with the same dimensions as original .38-55's. Nothing good would come from Win38-55 shooting from his rifle cartridges with the specs you advise.

March 8, 2017, 04:45 PM	#12
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	My gun shoots the long brass and a 0.382" cast bullet. I had a 0.381" sizer die and honed it to 0.382" My rifle's bore slugged at 0.381" Custom mold from Accurate Molds casts a 0.382" bullet. I run it thru the sizer die to true it up and to lube. I used a flattened 45 cal ball to slug the bore....because I had some.