Different load sources

[Txbonecollector75]

I have the Lyman reloading handbook, and have read it several times to make sure I understand everything.

My question is:

1. In there under the load data section, for my .223 ( I'm reloading for my AR15, 16" barrel, 1:9 twist ) it lists all the different bullets and starting load grains and max load grains but the bullets they list I've fired through my rifle before and have never liked using them, I like using a 55gr FMJBT & 62gr TSX BT & TTSX BT. Can you use any brand bullet for those loads that are listed?

2. I've been doing a lot of research, from the powder companies and bullet companies, looking at the burn rate, velocities, and characteristics. And when I go to the different websites for the powder it then lists an entirely different set of load data. And when I go to the bullet companies websites like Barnes and Sierra they give load data for their types of bullets and what the c.o.a.l should be and what the start and max grain loads should be.

3. And any recommendations on powders, because at cabela's one of the salesman there said he likes using IMR-3031 & H335, are these good powders or are there better ones because he was saying to use a fast burning propellant.

I guess what I'm asking and needing to understand is with all these different sources of load data, which one should I trust or go by to start my reloading?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[Brian Pfleuger]

1)Yes, you can substitute bullets of the same weight and construction. Solid copper for solid copper, traditional "cup and core" for traditional cup and core. Do not use data for traditional bullets when loading "solid" copper bullets.

2)You find different data for the "same" components because they're NOT the same. Even the same powder varies in burn rate by several percent between lots. Bullets and cases struck on different machines vary slightly from other machines. Primers are not universally identical and vary not only by lot but significantly between companies. Finally, some companies test in regular guns, some test in universal receivers. None of them are the same.

3)We need to know what you're loading and what your goals are in order to recommend a powder. You won't get a consensus though. Pick one that you have load data for and can find in your store and use that one.

You should not "trust" any data source. That's why you start low and work up. NEVER rely on any unofficial source. Try to find at least 3 official sources, start at the lowest starting charge and work your way up carefully to the highest maximum charge, if desired, or stop when you get the accuracy you want. NEVER exceed published data unless you are thoroughly educated on what you're doing and why.

We have a thread here that includes a couple dozen sources.

[T. O'Heir]

1. Yes. The brand makes no difference when loading lead cored bullets. However, a TSX is solid copper. The difference in density means it'll have a different OAL than a lead cored bullet. Isn't much different though.
Hodgdon's site lists a Barnes' TSX. Compare(always compare like weights) it's data to the Speer SP. Don't know what they're thinking with the miniscule amount of data for the Hornady FMJ, but it doesn't matter either. A jacketed bullet is a jacketed bullet. A Barnes bullet isn't a jacketed bullet though.
2. Messes more people up than anything else. Load data in manuals and web sites(No online data from Sierra though. They want you to buy their manual. So does Hornady and Barnes. Barnes has some but it's limited.), primarily the velocities and pressures, is 100% valid using exactly the same components and firearm(if a firearm was used at all. Lot of the tests are done using Universal Receivers. Really just a quick barrel change rifle, but not a specific brand.) under the exact conditions on the day of the testing. Hot and humid gives slightly different results than cold and wet or warm and dry. Even high or low atmospheric pressure can change results.
Anyway, the powder maker's data is usually best. Am getting suspicious of Hodgdon's site though. Lotta daft nonsense being advocated there these days. You don't need magnum primers just because a cartridge has the word 'Magnum' in its name. Just an example.
In any case, all data in all manuals is safe to use. Think in terms of law suits. Very partial to the Lyman book myself. Lyman makes neither bullets nor powder and their manual has more loads using more powders and bullet weights than any bullet or powder maker's book. You'll notice the bullet and powder makers only publish data for their stuff. No TSX data in a Sierra manual.
Max OAL given in your manual is best. By the cartridge, not the bullet. Rarely an issue with mag length using it, but when in doubt, use the OAL that fits in the mag.
SAMMI sets that. Lotta interesting stuff there. Read the Lyman manual's reference chapters too. http://www.saami.org/specifications_...tion/index.cfm
3. Don't load .223, but IMR4064 gives outstandingly consistent accuracy in a lot of cartridges. Use it in .30-06 myself. One of the other guys will be along with a better suggestion anyway.

[Txbonecollector75]

Ok I'm understanding you so far, when I looked on the Sierra bullets website under .223 Remington (AR15) load data it says they used a Colt AR-15A2 HBAR, and on Barnes bullet website it lists the barrel and twist rate and a universal receiver, and both web sites state that the load data contained on their pages are intended for their bullets, and I know they used a different barrel length and twist rate from my barrel so I'm not going to get the same velocity as their results. And as far as the brass case goes a lot of them say Federal or Remington, can I use Lake City brass and still be ok?

And as far as what I'm using my AR-15 for is mostly target practice and property/ home defense.

And I mean there's so many different powders out there I'm not ever sure where to start, my Lyman handbook has a complete chapter on powders but is it better to use a fast burning or medium burning powder, and right now my uncle has been reloading my 300AAC blackout w/ H4227 and a Sierra 150gr FMJBT, my uncles been reloading for about 30 years and taught me things along the way but doesn't really have time to teach me everything so I'm starting out slow and asking questions of anyone I can that has experience in reloading about the things I don't understand.

[Txbonecollector75]

And in my Lyman handbook under the .223 it says 55 gr jacketed spt and then right under that it says 2.260" OAL, now does that mean once I seat and crimp the bullet it's total length from the tip of the bullet to the head of the shell is going to be 2.260"?

[Brian Pfleuger]

When you're just getting started, don't worry about optimizing powders and burn rates and what not.

I've never even looked at a burn rate chart except when someone else asks about it. Fact is, they're a lot like load data. You can find 5 different charts that list the powders in 5 different orders.

Just use published loads and go for it. Leave the minutia for later.

Experienced help is good but just because someone has been "loading for 30 years" doesn't mean they know what they're doing. For one thing, they may have loaded less in 30 years than some guys do in 2 weeks. For another, they may be stuck in 30 year old data and practices. No harm in watching and learning but "trust and verify", as Reagan used to say.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Lake City brass and still be ok..." Yep. Lake City is actually made by Federal. Rumoured to be a bit thicker than regular commercial, but another guy weighed 'em and found 'em to be exactly the same as Federal commercial(like American Eagle).
I've always started with whatever powder is given for the accuracy load in my Lyman book for the bullet weight. Usually haven't bothered to try other powders. Mine is the 23rd Edition from about 1977. Gives IMR4198 for the accuracy load.
"...300AAC Blackout..." Small case, big bullet. Needs the fast burning powders to work right.
HBAR's are usually 1 in 7 and 20". If you're isn't 20", it'll give different velocities anyway. A lot of 'em are 1 in 12 and will prefer lighter bullets.
"...and asking questions..." Good for you. The only stupid question is the one not asked.

[Txbonecollector75]

Ok because I'm actually using Federal American Eagle brass that's head stamped LC . And I've got the 49th edition of Lyman's handbook so I'm going to start with the recommended starting load, because I'm going to be loading 55gr FMJBT and a 62gr FMJBT. But if it says in my book under the load data for a 55gr jacketed bullet that the OAL is 2.260" does that mean once I seat and crimp the bullet that the total length from top to head is going to be 2.260"?

[603Country]

To simplify things, a 55 gr bullet would be a good choice for your rifle. For varmint shooting, the Nosler Ballistic Tip or the V-Max would be good choices. A tougher version would be the 55 gr Sierra Gameking if pig blasting is a choice. If you want an even sturdier bullet, the 60 gr Nosler Partition (not cheap) or the Sierra 65 gr Gameking would work well. As for powders, IMR 4064 will work fine. Personally, I use H335 behind 40, 55, and 65 gr bullets and get excellent accuracy. But, what I don't know is whether or not 4064 or H335 are best choices for gas guns.

And if you are going to reload, I would load to factory COAL or what is recommended by the loading manual for that bullet. And that measurement is from the bottom of the case rim to the tip of the bullet - in other words, it is the full length of the reloaded cartridge.

Welcome to the reloading addiction. If you have questions, do not hesitate to ask the forum.

[PA-Joe]

As noted you can use the same powder load per bullet weight. However you have to use the bullet makers COL because each brand of bullets has a different shape and length. IMR 4064 is good but it doesn't meter very well.

[jmr40]

1. Yes. The brand makes no difference when loading lead cored bullets. However, a TSX is solid copper. The difference in density means it'll have a different OAL than a lead cored bullet. Isn't much different though.

Close, but not 100% accurate especially as you approach max loads. The difference between lead core and copper is greater, but there are differences between different lead jacketed bullets too.

I'd feel pretty safe substituting one 55 gr bullet for another as long as you start low and work up. You'll find the max load can be quite a bit different at times. Once you develop a load with one brand of bullets it'd be safer to back off a bit and work up again if you switch brands even within the same weight.

The copper jacket is harder on some bullets than others and the shape matters too. Some have a short bearing surface on the rifling while others have more of the bullet in contact with the barrel meaning more pressure.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by jmr40

I'd feel pretty safe substituting one 55 gr bullet for another as long as you start low and work up.

The minor differences between various bullets of the same weight and construction are completely irrelevant.

There's only so many ways you can make a lead core, copper jacketed bullet that's 0.224 diameter, pointy and flat based.

I entered a max load of Win748 in QuickLoad under various 55gr bullets in .223Rem. Some boattail, some flat based, some ballistic tip, some hollow point, some soft point. The difference in pressure predicted between the most and the least was under 4,000 psi.

Changing the case overflow capacity by 1gr (3.4%) made that much difference. That's without even considering primers, powder lots, etc, etc...

[Txbonecollector75]

Thank you everyone for answering my questions