Lever Action 357 . . . ?

[44 AMP]

There is something no one has yet brought to the discussion, and that is the common (and flawed) belief that every gun should run properly with every kind of ammo you put into it.

IF your gun doesn't feed short rounds or short light bullets, use what it does feed.

Can't put 8 people in the cab of your pickup?? Get a minivan.

Can't haul a cord of firewood in your minivan?? Get a pickup truck.

No one seems to think that an odd idea, why do they think all guns should run perfectly with all the different possible combinations of ammo??

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

There is something no one has yet brought to the discussion, and that is the common (and flawed) belief that every gun should run properly with every kind of ammo you put into it.

IF your gun doesn't feed short rounds or short light bullets, use what it does feed.

Can't put 8 people in the cab of your pickup?? Get a minivan.

Can't haul a cord of firewood in your minivan?? Get a pickup truck.

No one seems to think that an odd idea, why do they think all guns should run perfectly with all the different possible combinations of ammo??

You're clouding the issue with logic.

[tlm225]

I'm blessed that my Marlin 1894 will feed LSWC rounds like a fat kid eating M&Ms. The only issue I had was that my home cast (RCBS 150 SWC) was slightly long in magnum brass and wouldn't clear the mag tube without a nudge. I solved that by dressing the shell stop on the lifter back a little bit.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

There is something no one has yet brought to the discussion, and that is the common (and flawed) belief that every gun should run properly with every kind of ammo you put into it.

IF your gun doesn't feed short rounds or short light bullets, use what it does feed.

Can't put 8 people in the cab of your pickup?? Get a minivan.

Can't haul a cord of firewood in your minivan?? Get a pickup truck.

No one seems to think that an odd idea, why do they think all guns should run perfectly with all the different possible combinations of ammo??

Which is why I only shoot.357 ammo in my .357’s and have separate.38’s for that ammo.

[georgehwbush]

(I have pushed 125gr JHPs to 2200fps from a Marlin carbine and that is just too fast for that bullet.)

just a thought on that, the difference in distance that "generally" occurs between pistole and rifle shooting will degrade most of that extra velocity,

the lighter slugs, they do fall off pretty quickly.

[44 AMP]

Yes, the lighter slugs do loose speed faster and particularly at high velocities.

However, a .357 125gr slug doing 1500fps at the muzzle is still just about 1100fps at 100yds, and slugs fired appreciably faster than that will still be faster at range.

(I used 1500fps because that's as high as my table goes)

[rock185]

Just 2¢ worth from a guy that admittedly, doesn't shoot lever actions a lot and is not a lever action guru or expert. I've had a Marlin .44 for years, never shot anything but Magnum ammo in it, and it has always worked reliably. Fast forward about 25 years, and now I have a new Henry .357. It says .357 and .38 on the barrel. I've only used one type of .357, but several types of .38 Spcl., including a 158 grain SWC, all factory. The Henry feeds everything I've tried thus far. I didn't give much thought to shooting .38 Spcl. in the Henry, but nice to know it seems to work fine with .38s..

[radom]

I like .357 carbines but just one field lever gun why not get a .44?

[Kestrel4k]

Originally Posted by radom

I like .357 carbines but just one field lever gun why not get a .44?

I certainly agree on that 100%; I have one 357Mag rifle (mostly for 38Spl capability), but have a rather embarrassing number of 44Mag rifles.

Nearly as inexpensive to reload, but more than double the power on the high end /if needed/ - in a pkg the same overall size as a 357Mag rifle.

[44 AMP]

I like .357 carbines but just one field lever gun why not get a .44?

because, sometimes, a .44 is just too much. And not just its power. It can also be too much cost.

For example, if you already have a .357 pistol, and don't have a .44 and the rifle isn't going to be your primary deer gun anyway....

.44 is just more expensive. Brass and bullets mostly but also powder charges are bigger so fewer rounds per pound there as well.

Cost, and no real need are the main reasons I never bothered with 10mm rounds. Have .357, have .44s and .45s, 10mms don't do anything I don't already have covered either above or below, so the cost of a different caliber (dies, & components, along with the cost of the firearm) just wasn't worth it, for me.

[Hellcat1]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

because, sometimes, a .44 is just too much. And not just its power. It can also be too much cost.

For example, if you already have a .357 pistol, and don't have a .44 and the rifle isn't going to be your primary deer gun anyway....

.44 is just more expensive. Brass and bullets mostly but also powder charges are bigger so fewer rounds per pound there as well.

Cost, and no real need are the main reasons I never bothered with 10mm rounds. Have .357, have .44s and .45s, 10mms don't do anything I don't already have covered either above or below, so the cost of a different caliber (dies, & components, along with the cost of the firearm) just wasn't worth it, for me.

Agreed, 100%

I own a dozen guns that shoot .357, and probably 10K+ rounds of ammo for them (between .357 and .38 Spec.). I absolutely don't need a .44, and am very hesitant getting into another caliber that I currently don't own. The ONLY reason I would consider getting a .44 is because it seems to be a pretty popular caliber these days, and I would imagine that it MIGHT be easier to sell down the road, if I ever wanted to. But that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to me to do so, especially since most of my .357s are range "toys" for me, and strictly for my own shooting enjoyment.


Frank

[44 AMP]

I have .357 and .44 pistols, have had the Marlin .357 and .44 Mag carbines.

If you're only going to have one, and you want a woods deer rifle, the .44 is superior but the .357 is not inadequate. The .44 I had, felt recoil very nearly the same as a .30-30. The .357 has very light feeling recoil, even with full house loads, and with .38s almost no recoil.

I find the .357 to be a better overall light utility rifle, I use other guns for deer hunting.

[Pumpkin]

Light utility rifle, you just described my Marlin 783 22mag.

[radom]

As 44 AMP said use is a big issue with lever guns in revolver calibers. I do prefer the 44 but have a ahh more than one .357 5 and six guns here and a .357 carbine would work fine too. I have killed elk with the .357 revolvers but brush hunt short range head shots so a carbine in the brush in .357 would work for me too.

[rock185]

Why not a .44 instead of a .357? OK, I admit it; Recoil. My .44 Marlin seems to kick a lot more than it did when I was younger, same with .44 revolvers. In my dotage, I no longer shoot .44 Magnum, or .454, in revolvers but do shoot .357 once in a while. The lever action .357s, even with Magnum ammo, are just a pleasure to shoot in comparison. It's a geriatric thing

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by radom

I like .357 carbines but just one field lever gun why not get a .44?

In such a light gun the .44 simply has excess recoil.

Nobody needs that.

[1972RedNeck]

I like .357 carbines but just one field lever gun why not get a .44?

Because if you're going to get a 44, why not get a Rossi 92 in 454? And if you're going to get a 454, why not get a BHA 90 in 460 S&W?

[radom]

Very good point there on the 454 but as only have .357,44 and 45 revolvers in lever gun cals.here I passed plus its another round to load too.

[Pumpkin]

While 44 Mag recoil in a pistol can be considered by some pretty stout when chambered in a rifle it’s recoil is really tamed. The 44 has basically the same free recoil level as the 243, 6mm and 30-30; these are hardly considered excessive and deal out much more (especially the 24’s) muzzle blast. These are some of the lighter recoiling game calibers and not much more than the 357 Mag. Stock type and fit are important (I actually have a 77/44) but I have owned a Trapper, 1894 and a H&R single shot in 44 and always thought their recoil was mild. I don’t own any cannons anymore, largest being a couple 30-06’s.

[DaleA]

Because if you're going to get a 44, why not get a Rossi 92 in 454? And if you're going to get a 454, why not get a BHA 90 in 460 S&W?

Well, the Big Horn Armory (BHA) offering is around $5,000.
https://www.bighornarmory.com/product/model-90-460-sw/

(I've complained about the price of the Henry and it's "only" around $1,000.)

I would be VERY impressed with a lever gun that would shoot .45 Colt, .454 Casull and .460 S&W like the old .22's that shot shorts, longs, and long rifles but I guess that is not to be. BHA offers a pretty good explanation of why they don't do that on their web page.

While I still have mixed feelings about getting a rifle that fires "just" a pistol cartridge I recently got to fire a Henry in .45 Colt and was really impressed with it. Plus several folk on this site have posted some good information about rifles chambered for pistol cartridges.

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin

While 44 Mag recoil in a pistol can be considered by some pretty stout when chambered in a rifle it’s recoil is really tamed. The 44 has basically the same free recoil level as the 243, 6mm and 30-30; these are hardly considered excessive and deal out much more (especially the 24’s) muzzle blast. These are some of the lighter recoiling game calibers and not much more than the 357 Mag. Stock type and fit are important (I actually have a 77/44) but I have owned a Trapper, 1894 and a H&R single shot in 44 and always thought their recoil was mild. I don’t own any cannons anymore, largest being a couple 30-06’s.

Remember that weight and stock shape of rifle is a big factor.

In a Model 94 Winchester just over six pounds and with a poorly shape stock with a lot of drop........ both the 30-30 and the .44 Mag will rattle your teeth.

The .243 not only has less recoil as a cartridge, it is usually shot from a rifle with a large scope and usually averages EIGHT pounds in weight and has a straighter, better shaped stock.

So the comparisons suffer.

Also, recoil is a matter of feel and opinion. Very subjective.

Those who shoot a lot tend to be less bothered.

Those who shoot only a few times a year will be more bothered.

In a fun gun you want the .357 where you can have less than half the recoil of the .44 Mag and even go to the .38 special with almost no felt recoil.

[georgehwbush]

i have a 38-40 in winchester 71, it's nice shooting, no recoil. only good under 100yds really but lots of fun.

the 38-40 was never as popular as the 44-40 but this is not a replica, so ...

[The Verminator]

Originally Posted by georgehwbush

i have a 38-40 in winchester 71, it's nice shooting, no recoil. only good under 100yds really but lots of fun.

the 38-40 was never as popular as the 44-40 but this is not a replica, so ...

That 38-40 is a great cartridge.

Actually .40 caliber so it has a lot of punch.

First handgun I ever shot was a Colt Peacemaker in 38-40.

In a rifle I'd choose it over the 44-40.

[44 AMP]

Because if you're going to get a 44, why not get a Rossi 92 in 454? And if you're going to get a 454, why not get a BHA 90 in 460 S&W?

Why stop there, why not just get a .45-70?? (or a .450 Marlin?)

From rodents up through buffalo and elk there is some lever gun and caliber in a suitable cartridge. Its up to you to pick the best one for your needs and uses.

[ThomasT]

The other Marlin quirk (don't know if this applies to other rifles, or not) is that its a bit picky feeding SWC bullets. My experience is that all the RN and HP bullets work fine, but SWC can be an issue, unless you operate the lever "correctly" and by that, I mean at the right speed.

"Smartly" is the term I use, and that means rapidly, but not as fast a humanly possible. What can happen when worked too fast is that the bullet can "bounce" up enough to hit the edge of the chamber, and where a RN or jacketed bullet will slide in, the square edge of a lead SWC can catch on the edge of the chamber and jam.

Trying to force the round in with continued pressure on the lever does nothing. "Bumping" the lever forward just a bit relieves the pressure on the round and allows it to drop back down into its normal position on the carrier, and it will then chamber smoothly.

Its a small matter really, just an example of a design that works fine when operated the way it wants to be worked, but may not when you don't.

If you're going to be playing "Rifleman" (rapid fire like Chuck Conners in the old TV show) best not to use SWC bullets.

There is a simple solution to making the Marlins feed SWC bullets. Start with post number 20 and read my other post on how made my levers feed SWC bullets. Its a very simple solution.

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads...07882/#replies