Derringers

[Jehzsa]

I'm becoming fascinated by these little darlings and haven't found a forum where they are discussed. Would love to have a Simmerling but reality knocks me down to a Bond, COP or American Derringer.

Are these things accurate, say at 10 and 15 yards? Any real(felt) difference in recoil between a .357 m, .45 acp or a .45 l? Don't think so, but are there any reliability issues?

[jonathon]

I have a Hi-Standard .22 Mag derringer, and it bucks pretty hard(that and its got some plastic mechanical parts :barf: ). Doesn't really fit to good in my hand either(to small..)

Can't imagine it in .357mag or .45...

[dickfunk]

Derringer-style pistols are generally not very accurate at all. They weren't designed for accuracy, but for high-power+close quarters self defense. They are very concealable and are a breeze to carry, however they should be considered a last ditch attempt to save your life. If I were to own one, it would be chambered for the .45 LC/.410 shotshell (I've shot this model and it has a very significant recoil...not very fun to shoot), still, I'd rather have 10 shots from a .22 than 2 big-boy shots.

[Jehzsa]

Thank you for the replies, gentlemen. This is the "problem" I have. The best fitting pistol I have is my Para P12-45. With Hogue rubber grips. But for those warm summer days in Florida, I'm looking for something smaller than my P10-45 which is not exactly a pocket pistol. With Hogue rubber grips too.

Considering that American Derringer offers oversized grips for models with 3" barrels and that probably I won't be able to rent one to try it out first, could an "average" shooter be able to hit a stationary adult human head with the mentioned derringer(oversized grip, .45 l) say, at 15 yds?

[ClarkEMyers]

I liked the High Standard in a wallet holster but of course that makes an any other weapon per BATF. Notice the Semmerling (spelled with an e IIRC) is small but awfully heavy for its size. For my money the Seecamp or equal fills the niche much better than any true derringer in a legal carry - for an illegal carry or hide a derringer (one r or two depending on how you feel about violating trademark that is no longer enforced) - or legal in a jurisdiction not the United States, or willing to risk it because not in the United States - may have a place.

The only use of a derringer that ever made sense to me was having vast quantities of free ammunition and an urge to shoot a cheap 9mm or .410.

[jonathon]

Jehzsa, have you looked at the option of getting a small .22 automatic? Theres several good quality ones around that are only slightly bigger than a derringer, and they hold 8-10 rounds. The one I've had expierence in is the Pheonix HP22, small but very accurate and easy to handle.

Also, a cheap 5 shot .38 is a good pocket gun... as long as it shoots Seen a LNIB Rossi at a gunshow for $180...

Try different things.. but a derringer is evil, and the only reason I would carry one is for backup.

[Jehzsa]

Seecamp, Phoenix, really small .22s, .25s, .32s and .380s. Perhaps a KelTec 9mm.

Looks like I have my list ready for the next gunshow. Thanks guys. Really appreciate it.

[Old John]

Hi Y'all,

I have had a Bond Arms Texas Defender, in .45LC/.410 ga.
for about four yrs. or so. DSW Sharon has one in .45acp.
They have trigger guards, better control.

They weigh about 21 oz. and are SS. They are not y'ur
Granddaddy's old Derringer. The Locking mechanism is
different, quicker, smoother & stronger. They have a
rebounding firing pin and hammer, safer.

Yup, they have some recoil. I'm a big man w/ big hands
I handle it well enough to keep all the shots in the 8-ring
on silhouette targets at 7 yrds.
DSW is 5' tall & chunky. She can pop 'em off w/ my
.45LC, Bond. Hits better w/ her .45acp.
The .410 buckshot shell are a hoot, but they kick.

Only 2 shots but they make big holes.
They have their place.
I'd guess it's all in what you want.

It's not a gun for a woossy little guy.
We had a couple Davis Derringers.
They're junk.

Have Fun,
Old John

[dickfunk]

Jehzsa, I just recently purchased a Taurus PT-22 in nickel/rosewood finish. I took it to the range just last Wednesday and was very impressed. I put about 150 rounds through it with no malfunction of any kind. Groups were pretty tight, and will be tighter with a couple more trips to the range. I bought this thing for $171.50 NiB out the door. I stongly suggest you check it out...9 rounds of .22 LR.

[cheygriz]

Are better than bare hands. But not a helluva lot better!

For the same size package, a Beretta 950 in .25 auto will give you 9 rounds of Hornady XTP or Speer Gold Dot. Again, not a good choice, but better than a Derringer or a small .22.

I sometimes carry a 950 in my pocket when I can't carry my standard Sig P239.

[riverman]

I have the American Derringer .45 Colt-.410 and love it. It is correct to say that these little powerhouses are "belly guns". Accuracy it limited to close range and in that respect at about 10-12 feet either cartridge in my little boomer would be devesating. I have the American derringer "buckshot" loads for it and they open up pattern quickly. The .45 Colt shot out of the gun is a kicker but the 410 is absolutely a bear to hold on to! I shoot lots of large caliber handguns and shooting the 410 is probably the most painful to shoot. I never shoot more than 4 rounds of 410 and do it just to keep myself familiarized with it for carry purposes. If you get one of these well amde little mini cannons be sure to heed the warnings and engage the manual safety block before loading and always keep the safety engaged. The gunshop owner where I got my derringer had one in 45-70 called the Alaskan survival model and he shot 2 rounds of 45-70 out of it and the second round literaly broke his wrist!! The little 45Colt 410 is a good gun worthy of owning .

[Jehzsa]

Thank you all. Really interesting reading. Spent most of this morning following up and found some interesting choices. BTW, I'm 6' tall, 200 lbs and the best fitting pistol I have, in my hand, is the Para 12-45. To enable comparisons, this is what I have now;

Walther PP Super 9x18U, Benelli B-82 9x18U, Sig P230 9x18U
Walther PP Super 380, Walther P-5 9mmL
East German Makarov 9x18M, Bulgarian Military 9x18M
Para-Ordnance P12-45 limited, Para-Ordnance P10-45


Reviewed the following: NAA Guardian .25NAA, Beretta Bobcat, Tanfoglio GT27, Taurus PT25. What I'm looking for is a puncher in my pocket for those warm summer days in Florida when I don't want to carry my Para P10-45 IWB. All of mine, except maybe for the P230, are not exactly sub-compacts. Actually, the P10-45 is not exactly a vest gun, or even a pocket gun. And the Derringer is still in the running. But leaning now to the NAA, if only because of the cartridge. And it is a micro. Should fit comfortably in my jeans. Without printing.

I guess this is one situation where size is everything!
Thanks again, guys.

[marshall2]

You need the ideal pocket gun:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm

[Jehzsa]

Just might do it, marshall2. Will check it out. Thanks.

[payne]

Kel-tec makes a tiny .32 that would be better than a derringer. I would go with the p-11 (9mm). little bigger (not much)

that 380 listed above aint a bad choice either

[Stiletto]

I kind of want one of American Derringer's target derringers, just for the heck of it.

[bubbygator]

...could an "average" shooter be able to hit a stationary adult human head with the mentioned derringer(oversized grip, .45 l) say, at 15 yds?

I don't know why nobody else has answered this - absolutely not!

The derringer is a 3-5 yard gun MAX; anything longer is just wishful thinking. I had a Am.Derringer in .45/.410 - it was high quality & very good looking and reliable. But the trigger is so stiff, it is very difficult to hold any sight picture while trying to pull the trigger. Recoil is also high, but that happens after you've pulled the trigger, & doesn't effect accuracy unless you anticipate it. I have no problem with recoil; but heavy heavy trigger is another matter.

[mchgnmike]

Riverman,

I too have fired the .45-70 Alaskan Survivor Model and it didn't recoil all that bad. Near as I could figure is that considering it is a low pressured round there isn't enough barrel to cause much recoil. Hard for me to think it would actually break a wrist but stranger things have happened.

[marshall2]

First, no matter how good the gun, the average shooter would probably miss a head-sized object at 15 yards.

Second, if this is for self-defense, and the bad guy is 15 yards away, you would be well advised NOT to shoot. Just turn around, and run, and get out of there.

[Waitone]

I went through the same thought process and considered a belly gun. I concluded I get 2 shots of a beefier round in a package that weighs more than I want.

I changed my paradigm and considered what would be easiest to carry yet be effective up close and personal. I now pack a Kel-Tec P-3AT in .380. Not a sniper platform but really accurate at syringe range plus I carry a few more rounds than two. Would I like something with a little more authority? Yep, but picking a carry piece is an exercise in tradeoff. You don't get something for nothing.

[RHard1954]

I own both the Model 4 (4 inch barrel) and Model 6 (6 inch barrel). I've had them now for several years now and I have a few user comments to share. The accuracy of these two longer barrel derringers is better than the Model 1. (BTW, I am told the Model 8 is very stable and "match" accurate with the oversized grips.) I've found that trigger control is an absolute necessity to be accurate. Squeeze the trigger without "expectation" (no nervous jerking) and the result will be pleasantly surprising. I'm 6 ft/215 lbs, so I have the necessary grip for this type of weapon.

I did have to replace the standard grips on the Model 6 with the oversized ones and it shoots well, even one handed. I can consistently hit 3 to 4 inch groups up to 25 yards. Admittedly, this took practice. I have shot the .45 "Long" Colt (or Colt), but prefer the "shorter" .45 Schofield cartridge. This cartridge is a little more tame and provides less barrel climb than its larger brother. The .410 rounds are just for close defense and essentially make either derringer a hand cannon.

The Schofield cartridge can be found on-line (Cabela's, etc.) and are a little pricey compared to other handgun loads. Reloading is my key to keeping the price down.

I've owned the Bond Arms Derringer, and although it performs well and is a safe(r) weapon, it is a "brick" compared to the American Derringer. The Bond, profiles a lot more than the American Derringer. I wear the A.D. either concealed, right side or in driver cross draw, or in my left boot (inner side... so I can withdraw while I'm down on my right knee), primarily as my back-up piece. I couldn't conceal the heavier made Bond very easily and sold it last year.

My primary concealed pistol is a Walther PPS (.40S&W) or the Para Odnance Carry 6.45 LDA.

I also like the Model 6 American Derringer on certain occasions, because it can fit in the front pocket of my blue jeans and the handle just barely sticks out the edge of the pocket, making it easy to grab and bring to bear.

[C0untZer0]

To me there is a point at which smaller & lighter no longer has value. Whether something is 18oz or 14oz, I find it just doesn't matter. When something is under a 5"x4" footprint and under 18oz. getting lighter or smaller doesn't make much of a difference.

If I went from a 5.2" x 4" pistol to a 4.84" x 3.3" I wouldn't suddenly say "Wow ! what a difference !" They are both little pistols that are going to fit in a pocket. The same thing with going from 18oz to 14.5oz. It's not like 3.5oz is suddenly going to make my pants fall down.

I admit to thinking that the little guns are cool, but every time I've thought about buying one I've thought "These are not going to be fun to shoot at the range", "If I'm serious about CC then, for a few hundred bucks more there are way better options than a 2-shot pistol."

The other thing that bugs me about many "Derringers" is the exposed trigger. Something about it just makes me uneasy and no amount of understanding how the safety works etc.. is going to make me comfortable.

I don't know just my opinion.

I came very close to buying one in 9mm for no other reason than I thought it would be cool to have one. Gosh, reading this thread made me go out to Cobra's site to look at their derringers and I have to admit that for no logical reason I'd like one of their 9mm. But, for slightly more weight, slightly more size (and a lot more cash) I could get a Rohrbaugh which gives me an additional 5 rounds of ammo in roughly the same size footprint.

[C0untZer0]

Bond Century 2000
Caliber:9mm (also 40S&W,10mm and .45 ACP)
Barrel: 3.5in
Length: 5.5in
Weight: 21 oz.
Capacity:2




Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber:9mm
Barrel:2.9in
Length:5.2in
Height:3.7in
Weight:13.5oz
Capacity:6+1 Rounds





In this case you actually have a semi-auto that is about 1/4" shorter and 7.5 oz lighter than a "derringer" and it holds 5 more rounds of ammo.

This is why it's hard for me to buy a derringer even though I think they're neat.


.

[C0untZer0]

I came across this YouTube video of a couple shooting Cobra 9mm derringers - the guy points a loaded & cocked derringer to his left - along the firing line, after the second shot.

No AD (or negligent discharge as some insist on saying), but thank the range owner that the shooting positions are separated by steel plates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K35-OjP5Yg&NR=1

[Bill DeShivs]

The new derringers are neat guns, but the large bore models are almost as big as a "J" frame S&W and weigh as much, too.
Derringers are single action and usually very hard to cock, and harder to shoot well.
I see absolutely no reason to carry one for self defense. There are much better options available.
I carry a Keltec P32.