Protruding rim in case gage

[RileyMartin]

Hi,

After full length resizing and trimming I have some 30-06 cases where the rims protrude above the top of my chamber gage. What do I do with these trouble maker cases?

Thanks for the help,

Riley

[Tsquared]

They either are not sized right or you have bur on the rim of the case.

[tangolima]

It is very likely the brass is a bit too fat to in the cavity of gauge. Mostly it is near the head where the sizing die has less effect.

Forget the gauge. Does the sized brass chamber ok in your rifle? That's what it counts. I sold my gauges after realizing they were useless unless I start producing ammunition for sale.

-TL

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[Yosemite Steve]

Looking at the picture, it does look like there is a bur on the case head that is catching on your gauge. Heck of a ding it took. Looks like it got stuck and was damaged durring extraction.

[cw308]

Yosemite Steve sees what I see on the left , looks almost like a crack.. how many are like that. Is that the first time those cases were sized I see a red ring around the pocket.?

[Marco Califo]

I think your case expanded, and your sizing was not effective. If you know anyone with a small base die, try that. What did you shoot it in? Are they all like that or only one?
Of course, try readjusting your die downward, if you have not.
The red ring is primer sealant and it looks Like crimped primer military case. If you bought this as once fired brass, it may have been fired in MG with a loose chamber.

[higgite]

Try inserting the case into the gauge backwards, that is, rim first. If it won't go past the case mouth, look for burrs on the rim.

[condor bravo]

That amount of protrusion is excessive and you indicate there are several that way. Perhaps all of those do have burrs around the rim. However, how do those chamber in the rifle? If they chamber normally, use them that way. But first file the burrs off and try them in the gage again.

[jpx2rk]

What is a good way to remove the "burr" mentioned above??

[Yosemite Steve]

Unless you are really determined to keep every piece of brass you find I would not use it. What is it worth to have reliable supplies?

[condor bravo]

jpx2rk
Just use a fine file for removing burrs. Often '06 cases fired in a Garand end up that way.

[mikld]

When I was first reloading for my Garand I had a 30-06 case gauge. I too had problems even after several attempt to adjust sizing die and even removed about .010" from the shell holder. HXP, Hornady and LC brass all had same "problem". I asked the same question over on the CMP forum (lots of Garand shooters/reloaders there). One member replied "do they fit in your rifle's chamber"? Yep the did so I just reloaded the cases and put the case gauge away. After a bit more study and figgerin' I found the rims were dinged on ejection (the heavier loads = heavier dings) hitting the op rod.

[RC20]

There are some nasty burrs there, beat up case head.

When I started to load 9mm, I bought a case gauge as its a bit tricky (or so I thought)

Most of my rounds did not fit the gauge.

I took the barrel off and they fit fine. hmmm

So I played with it and found that if they sat up past a certain distance they would not fit in the barrel. Otherwise stick up was ok, just not too high.

I have not bought a case gauges since.

When I resize as I do minimal shoulder bump, I check to make sure they fit in the gun.

The brass for precision target rifle are kept separate from the Mil Surplus rounds.

If it chambers and the bolt closes normally, its re-sized fine.

[cw308]

I think it's time for some input from RileyMartin.

[T. O'Heir]

Not sized right or too long. Very well might be the burr on the rim too. File the burr off. Easiest done with jeweller's files. That'd be those wee tiny sets. Any small file will do though. Size matters. snicker.
"...from the shell holder..." That should never be necessary.
Been loading for an M1 Rifle for 40 years(and a real M14 and .30 Carbine. Plus .45 ACP and 9mm.) without ever owning a case gauge. FL resize and you'll be fine. Case gauges are primarily a way of separating you from your money.

[F. Guffey]

After full length resizing and trimming I have some 30-06 cases where the rims protrude above the top of my chamber gage.

"What does it mean?"

Riley Martin, I have chamber gages and I have case gages and I also have home made datum based tools. You have confused some because you are using a chamber gage, there is no before and or after when using a chamber gage; correction. there is no measure before and again after when I use a chamber gage.

But! When I use a case gage I measure before sizing and again after sizing, RMEMBER when using the case gage before sizing you are measuring the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head after firing; Many reloaders choose to go throught the motions without a plan but if they know the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before sizing and again after sizing they know the difference in length between the fired case and the sized case.

Most reloaders have cases that have head space, not me. my cases do not have head space, all of my case gages are datum based. What does that mean? MY cases when placed in the case gage set on a datum, the datum/circle/round hole for the 30/06 is .375", the case gage should have two heights, the low one measures the length of a minimum length case, the seep that is flush with the top of the gage measure a case that is go-gage length from the datum to the case head.

Your picture indicates a protrusion above the gage that indicates the case is longer than a go-gage length chamber from the datum to the case head.

I have suggested a reloader use a straight edge and a feeler gage to determine the length of the case when using a case gase gage. L.E. Wilson has suggested the reloader read and follow the instructions for over 70 years, the only difference between what they suggest and what I suggest is the feeler gage, I can measure the length of the case with a feeler gage and a case gage in thousands with a feeler gage and a straight edge. All I have to know is the part about being a datum based tool.

And then finally they are making a dial indicator, when it comes to separating a reloader from his money.

F. Guffey

[condor bravo]

Riley
What Guffey is saying is that you are using a case gauge, not a chamber go-no go gauge.

[Marco Califo]

A case gauge checks your sizing result. OP, please confirm your sizing die is adjusted to contact the shellholder.
Also if that picture was taken with the gauge resting on a flat surface, your case could be too long (sticking out the other end). Lift the gauge, or, photograph it on its side showing both ends. Also, you can invert it and slam on a flat surface, rim down. It may stick, push out with a rod or dowel. Again, probably not sized to SAAMI specs.
Get out you calipers or buy one at HFT, and check all SAAMI dimensions.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/_C...pringfield.pdf

[F. Guffey]

A case gauge checks your sizing result.

The case gage also measures the length of the fired case from the shoulder/datum to the case head and as you said the case gage also measure the distance from the datum/shoulder to the end of the neck.

In the perfect world the case should not protrude from the gage;again, Wilson has always recommended using a straight edge, I suggest using the straight edge with a feeler gage and when available a flat surface. When the case head protrudes from the gage the case supports the gage and prevents it from making contact with the flat surface when that happens I use a feeler gage to determine by "HOW MUCH".

F. Guffey

[rodfac]

OP, please confirm your sizing die is adjusted to contact the shellholder.

Not necessarily. Using shell holders made by one firm with dies built by another can result in a case that's had the shoulder set back too far...ie. producing a headspace problem. In other words, you may not want to adjust the die to touch the shell holder.

Use of a Wilson type case gage and checking that the sized case head does not protrude above the gage nor fall below the cutout ensures that the sizing die is producing a case correctly dimensioned for shoulder to case head length.

Lacking a Wilson type case gage, the sizing die can be screwed into place, incrementally, until the rifle bolt closes with just a bit of resistance. Obviously, this method works best in bolt actions but can be done with a Garand after removing the ejector from the bolt. This method results in a minimum headspaced cartridge case; ie. it just barely fits into the chamber.

In the OP's pic, it would appear that burrs on the case head are preventing the case from dropping fully into the die. Rod

[F. Guffey]

Not necessarily. Using shell holders made by one firm with dies built by another can result in a case that's had the shoulder set back too far...ie. producing a headspace problem.

It was settled and decided upon long before the Internet; The universal deck height of the shell holder is .125", I have two sets of C&H dies from the '60s in counter display boxes that have the instructions printed on the bottom of the box. The Instructions read; "The dies in this box are designed to be used with a shell holder with a height of .125" ". I added the 'deck' part. And I always ask: Who measures?

And then there is that 'THINK ABOUT IT THING', we have reloaders that are purchasing a set of 5 sell holders for $40.00+ that do not have a deck height of .125".

And then there is head space for the case, my cases do not have head space, I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head and I find it impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support.

F. Guffey

[RileyMartin]

Thanks for all the input.

My mistake. I have a Dillon case gage, not chamber gage.

When trying the processed brass in the case gage none of the necks protruded out the bottom of the gage.

I see now some of the brass is a bit beat up on the rims. This is South Korean ammo I bought years ago and fired once from my Garand.

My resizing die was not touching the shell plate initially but when I checked my brass and put aside about 10 that protruded out the top I sent those 10 through the resizing die again. They still protruded so I turned down my full length resizing die until it did touch the shell plate and ran them through a third time but they still protruded.

I’ll check in my rifle to see if they chamber. Tomorrow I’m going to the range to see how they all shoot.

[F. Guffey]

I turned down my full length resizing die until it did touch the shell plate

Meaning?: First you loosened the lock ring and backed it off and then screw the die down until the die contacted the shell holder/plate and then screwed the die down an additional 1/4" turn or about .017". After lowering the die an additional 1/4 turn you then secured the die to the press with the lock ring.

When I want to know if the case head hit everything after being ejected I turn the case around and insert it into the die with the big end first. remember the case head protrudes from the chamber. All of my Mausers have .110" case head protrusion, all of my 03s and 03A3 have .090" and then there are my M1917s, case head protrusion on all of my M1917s is .090" from the bottom extractor cut to the case head. We do not know how much case head protrusion there is on other rifles because no one measures it.

We all should know case head protrusion from the full length sizing die is .125" because the deck height of the shell holder/plate is .125".

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Normally the strong get dizzy when I go into methods and techniques. I have no problem placing a case into a case gage while the case gage is setting on a block of lead, when the case gage setting on the block of lead with a case in the case I have no problem using a straight drift and hammer to drive the case into the case gage.

First, do not forget to lube the case and be careful, anyhow, the case will conform to the gage; when that happens the case head will be below the top of the case gage and the shoulder of the case will conform to the radius of the datum. Again, stick the case head into the case gage when trying to determine if you have burrs etc. There is a lot of room in the case gage for the case. And if you want to know what a datum with a radius looks like use a block of lead, straight punch and hammer.

F. Guffey

[OKElkHunter]

If the case rims are clean and smooth, you may have excess case head expansion. I discard and cases that do not fit into my case gage after resizing a second try. I’ve come across the same problem with cases that have been fired numerous times with max loads.
It’s not worth the risk for me to reload cases that may have excessive case head expansion.
You can use a paper clip to check the inside of the case for case head separation. I suspect you may find some separation with those cases that won’t seat completely in your gage.



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