First set of Lyman dies - MSR 9mm

[markr6754]

My first set of dies was the Lee 9mm 4 die set. I’ve had a variety of issues with them and always planned to order someone else’s 9mm set “one day”. I recently found a set of Lyman Black dies for Modern Sporting Rifles...their MSR black die set, which is targeted for the AR platform, but as a growing number of shooters are running 9mm Lyman came out with a complete die kit in the cartridge. Since 9mm is 9mm, I decided to give them a try for grins.

I’m impressed. Resizing on my Hornady LNL single stage was really a challenge. Not knowing any different I chalked up the amount of effort required to the tapered case. My 4 y/o granddaughter tried to help last weekend, and couldn’t budge the ram. Over time I’ve discovered that wet tumbled cases are easier to size...and media tumbled cases benefit from a spray of Hornady lube.

Well no more...I can resize cases using the Lyman MSR die with my thumb and index finger on the handle. Expanding cases is equally effortless. They glide in and out of the Lyman expander with ease. It took a great deal of effort to expand cases with the Lee Powder Through Expander die as they would hang up on the expander and cleaning, lubing, and polishing the expander had no effect.

I expanded and primed 400 cases tonight in half the time it took to do 200 cases last weekend using the Lee die. My only complaint is that I waited so long to try the Lyman dies. I had planned to order Hornady, but no longer. Free bullets is always nice...but I like that the Lyman set includes everything...including a case gauge, a shell holder, and a taper crimp die as well.

Anyone else have experience with Lyman dies in handgun calibers?

[Unclenick]

My first carbide die was a Lyman .45 Auto die. It worked fine with everything except R-P brass, which was so thin and springy that it quickly hardened to the point the Lyman die didn't size it down enough to hold onto a bullet. Took about 3 load cycles. The Dillon die I got on my Square Deal doesn't have that problem. It sizes down narrower and can overcome the R-P problem.

I've wanted to try the Redding two-ring die in something, but haven't been able to justify the expense yet. This sizes with a wider ring at the die mouth and a narrower one at the neck near the mouth, so as to maintain an approximation of the case taper.

[markr6754]

I loaded 300 rounds of 9mm today....basically, 3/4 of the cases I primed and expanded last night. I loaded 200 rounds with Everglades Ammo 9mm 115gr FMJ RN, and 100 rounds with their 95gr JHP. Seating was smooth and effortless.
However, I tried the Taper Crimp die, and it worked just fine, but I reverted to my Lee FCD...I just like the pass over of the carbide sizing ring. All of these cases were originally sized with my Lee 9mm sizing die, and it appears to size to the upper limit. Finished rounds pass my multi-caliber Lyman AmmonCheck block, but many wouldn’t pass the ammo check block included with the die set...until I used the Lee FCD. I’m looking forward to a complete reloading cycle using these dies.

[mikld]

Just wondering; what "issues" did you have with the Lee dies?

[mikld]

I guess he's not coming back. I only asked about his die problems for my own information. I have some Lee dies, but also Herters, Pacific, RCBS, and one Hornady set. And some work better/differently than others and I like to hear about some I don't have (I use RCBS dies for my 9mm)...

[TimW77]

WRONG!!!

There are MANY different "9mm" cartridges...

What most people simply (and mistakenly) call "the 9mm" is in fact the 9x19mm / 9mm Luger / 9mm Parabellum plus maybe other names...

There are at least 20 different 9mm cartridges!!!


When it comes to dies, I have used many different dies and find the Lyman dies and especially their "Multi-Deluxe" sets (or whatever called now) to be EXCELLENT. Never had a problem with them.

The rest of the Lyman product line is also excellent...

TW

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by mikld

Just wondering; what "issues" did you have with the Lee dies?

My problems with the Lee 9mm starting right away with the sizing die. Since it was my very first die and my first time reloading I was surprised at the effort it took to resize a 9mm case, but over time learned to wet tumble vs dry tumble, and to lightly lube cases with Hornady One Shot. Despite the amount of effort, I continued using them, as I was spending my die money on additional calibers. Nearly every other die set (380 ACP, 38 Spl/357 Mag, 45 ACP, 300 ACP Blackout, and 40 S&W/10mm after a 3 month nightmare with a set of Redding 40 S&W).

Every other caliber takes a fraction the force of the Lee 9mm for resizing. However, since the others are all straight wall cases I chalked it up to the tapered case in the 9.

Another issue I noticed is a number of specific headstamps are ruined on resizing in the Lee die...about 95% of Blazer cases and large numbers of Federal, and a small quantity of Win cases appear to “flow” the brass over the pressure ridge or flash hole ridge resulting in what appears to be a crack in the case wall. It has a ridge that catches a fingernail. I’ve taken to throwing away Blazer brass, and throw away any cases that bind like this and form the ridge.

Another problem that I have with Lee is the smooth depriming pin coupled with the aluminum retaining bolt. I’ve ruined a universal decapping die due to the aluminum threads galling and distorting while trying to get the decapping shaft tight enough to push out primers. Fortunately, the Frankford Arsenal Hand Deprimer Tool doesn’t suffer from this issue...but it does remove the option of decapping and resizing in one operation.

The issue with the expander die grabbing and “popping” when lowering the ram I’ve already mentioned above.

In the end, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Every problem that I’ve encountered over the past 18 months of reloading 9mm, that I do not experience with any other cartridge, went away when switching to the Lyman die. Resizing is smooth and effortless, without lube, wet or dry tumbled cases. Expanding is smooth and “grab and pop” free. Even the taper crimp is smooth...as it should be. Add in the free shell holder, and the case gauge, and I’m very pleased.

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by TimW77

WRONG!!!

There are MANY different "9mm" cartridges...

What most people simply (and mistakenly) call "the 9mm" is in fact the 9x19mm / 9mm Luger / 9mm Parabellum plus maybe other names...

There are at least 20 different 9mm cartridges!!!

TW

Of course you are 100% correct. What I should have said is 9mm Luger is 9mm Luger, which is also the only 9mm round that I’ve seen in the AR platform.

That said, I’d be confident that 99.9% of the readers knew what I meant. But that doesn’t excuse me for the 0.1% of readers that I confused with my comment.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by markr6745

Every other caliber takes a fraction the force of the Lee 9mm for resizing. However, since the others are all straight wall cases I chalked it up to the tapered case in the 9.

I once accidentally made a wildcat by running a .45 Auto case into one of my .44 Special/Mag sizing dies without realizing, by feel, that anything was wrong. It was only when I withdrew it and looked at my newly formed fat-headed rimless .44 "invention" that I realized what had happened. It took a little more effort than the right sizing die, but not enough to scream "problem" to me.

It sounds to me like you bought (or inadvertently got) a steel rather than a carbide sizing die in your 9 mm set. Steel sizing dies require you to use case lube the same as a rifle die does, and the cases don't come out of the die quite as smooth-surfaced in appearance.

You can tell by shining a light up into the die. The steel just has the shape of a chamber (but slightly tighter) while the carbide dies have a press-fit ring at the mouth of the die. Just compare it to one of your easy-to-resize dies for a quick check.

If it's isn't steel, though, then something is wrong and you should call Redding to ask them to explain what's going on. They may want you to send them the die to check it out.

[markr6754]

Originally Posted by Unclenick
It sounds to me like you bought (or inadvertently got) a steel rather than a carbide sizing die in your 9 mm set. Steel sizing dies require you to use case lube the same as a rifle die does, and the cases don't come out of the die quite as smooth-surfaced in appearance.

You can tell by shining a light up into the die. The steel just has the shape of a chamber (but slightly tighter) while the carbide dies have a press-fit ring at the mouth of the die. Just compare it to one of your easy-to-resize dies for a quick check.

If it's isn't steel, though, then something is wrong and you should call Redding to ask them to explain what's going on. They may want you to send them the die to check it out.

The die box says Carbide die, and there is a shiny press-fit ring in the die mouth. But it’s a Lee die, so I may just give Lee a call. I had a problem with the sizing ring in my Redding 40 S&W die which was corrected by Redding.
I appreciate that manufacturers in our hobby stand behind their products, but it’s quite frustrating to shop diligently to get a good price on something, to turn around and spend even more money shipping product back due to defects. I do appreciate that easily replaced parts are often shipped at no cost, even when we caused the failure...so I guess in the end I shouldn’t be frustrated. I just haven’t been loading long enough to be on the plus column of manufacturer generosity.