A lock and load question

Land Shark · November 23, 2009, 09:30 AM

A question for a non carry person

In my state it is legal to carry a firearm in motor Vehicle ( unloaded )

My question is say you are in parking lot wally world , home depot,

grocery store , where ever and you now have bad guy about to do

harm to you or some one else in lot , if you use your firearm are

you in deep trouble ?

derherr65 · November 23, 2009, 09:48 AM

Depends. You have the right to defend yourself from imminent death or serious bodily harm everywhere, afaik. However, in some states they will try to prosecute you regardless. Defending others is more risky. In Texas you should be ok, but no guarantee. In california or new york I would be very, very reluctant.

Sefner · November 23, 2009, 09:57 AM

Shark,

One thing that would result in trouble would be if the gun is being illegally transported. For instance here in Michigan we can carry a gun in the car as long as the gun is not accessible to the passengers and driver, the ammunition and magazines are stored separately from the firearm, and (this is the important one for your situation) the driver is on their way to a gun range, gunsmith, gun store, etc etc. So we can't just keep a firearm, regardless of condition, in the car and drive it around town. Your state may be similar.

That said, if you're stopped at a convenience store for a delicious Coke on your way to the range and a situation arises, courts would be hard pressed to charge you with something if you had transported and used your firearm in the bounds of the law.

Either way, check your state laws because they may address this issue. Just remember, you may not be able to carry it all over in the car with you.

Land Shark · November 23, 2009, 10:12 AM

Thanks guys , this is a florida thing

you can have it it has to 3 un loaded in glove box , a 3 step deal

NavyLT · November 23, 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land Shark

Thanks guys , this is a florida thing

you can have it it has to 3 un loaded in glove box , a 3 step deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land Shark

In my state it is legal to carry a firearm in motor Vehicle ( unloaded )

Land Shark,

You may want to brush up on your Florida law. Those are not the requirements for keeping a firearm in a vehicle in Florida.

Actually, your statements are technically correct in that you CAN have the firearm in a vehicle that way, certainly. However, it is not REQUIRED to have the gun in the vehicle that way.

**Frank Ettin** · November 23, 2009, 12:12 PM

It's all going to depend on the legality, under your particular local law, of having the gun in the car. Some jurisdictions may make a distinction between "transporting" a gun between place where you may legally possess it and "having" a gun in a car, even if unloaded, on a regular basis. I don't claim to know; it's something that should be checked on.

It's entirely possible to justifiably use a gun in self defense and still be convicted on a weapons charge. Bernie Goetz, is pretty much the "poster child" for that outcome. He was acquitted of assault (i. e., the jury agreed that his use of lethal force in self defense was justified), but he was still convicted and sent to jail for illegal possession of the gun.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 23, 2009, 12:25 PM

Is there some reason not to get a Florida permit or license? That makes the point moot.

NavyLT · November 23, 2009, 01:11 PM

It's pretty much a moot point anyway.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/SEC012.HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0776->Section%20012#0776.012

Quote:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0776/SEC031.HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0776->Section%20031#0776.031

Quote:

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

And regarding the transportation of a handgun in a vehicle, the handgun may be LOADED and stored in an UNLOCKED glove compartment, contrary to the OP's belief:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

Quote:

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC25.HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section%2025#0790.25

Quote:

(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Notice the word "OR" above. The only requirement for a handgun in a motor vehicle in Florida is securely encased, which is defined in the statute quoted further above. It is NOT required for the handgun to be unloaded, and NOT required to be in a locked container.

I firmly believe that a person should be very familiar with the laws in their own state when carrying a firearm in that state.

Land Shark · November 23, 2009, 01:24 PM

Yes sorry I was useing the old rules

I still untill I get my carry card leave them unloaded

maestro pistolero · November 23, 2009, 01:40 PM

Carrying an UNloaded firearm can get you killed. If you are going to have it, load it.

NavyLT · November 23, 2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Carrying an UNloaded firearm can get you killed. If you are going to have it, load it.

I absolutely agree. It is best just to leave it at home as it is to have it unloaded. It's less likely to get stolen from at home and is of almost as much use at home.

Land Shark · November 23, 2009, 10:59 PM

Just put the clip in the one in the car and one in the pipe

NavyLT · November 23, 2009, 11:04 PM

Outstanding!

Did the references to the actual Florida statutes help?

Land Shark · November 24, 2009, 08:57 AM

Yes Sir , thanks for the help

**44 AMP** · November 25, 2009, 02:48 PM

Between "carrying" a firearm in a vehicle (transporting) and "carrying" a firearm on your person. These can vary a lot with the state.

Generally transporting a gun means it has to be unloaded, and often cased, or in a locked compartment. Again, check local laws.

IN a parking lot, gun on your person? (as in in your hands), I don't think that would fall under the transporting definition. You are, after all, not moving, in effect at your destination. Each state writes their laws differently, so check yours carefully.

Some states allow loaded guns in vehicles only on your person (may require CCL) others do not.

November 23, 2009, 09:30 AM	#1
Land Shark Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Melbourne Florida Posts: 34	A lock and load question A question for a non carry person In my state it is legal to carry a firearm in motor Vehicle ( unloaded ) My question is say you are in parking lot wally world , home depot, grocery store , where ever and you now have bad guy about to do harm to you or some one else in lot , if you use your firearm are you in deep trouble ?

November 23, 2009, 09:57 AM	#3
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	Shark, One thing that would result in trouble would be if the gun is being illegally transported. For instance here in Michigan we can carry a gun in the car as long as the gun is not accessible to the passengers and driver, the ammunition and magazines are stored separately from the firearm, and (this is the important one for your situation) the driver is on their way to a gun range, gunsmith, gun store, etc etc. So we can't just keep a firearm, regardless of condition, in the car and drive it around town. Your state may be similar. That said, if you're stopped at a convenience store for a delicious Coke on your way to the range and a situation arises, courts would be hard pressed to charge you with something if you had transported and used your firearm in the bounds of the law. Either way, check your state laws because they may address this issue. Just remember, you may not be able to carry it all over in the car with you. Last edited by Sefner; November 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM.

November 23, 2009, 12:25 PM	#7
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Is there some reason not to get a Florida permit or license? That makes the point moot. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 25, 2009, 02:48 PM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Note the legal difference Between "carrying" a firearm in a vehicle (transporting) and "carrying" a firearm on your person. These can vary a lot with the state. Generally transporting a gun means it has to be unloaded, and often cased, or in a locked compartment. Again, check local laws. IN a parking lot, gun on your person? (as in in your hands), I don't think that would fall under the transporting definition. You are, after all, not moving, in effect at your destination. Each state writes their laws differently, so check yours carefully. Some states allow loaded guns in vehicles only on your person (may require CCL) others do not. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 23, 2009, 09:48 AM	#2
derherr65 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2009 Location: Texas! Posts: 7	Depends. You have the right to defend yourself from imminent death or serious bodily harm everywhere, afaik. However, in some states they will try to prosecute you regardless. Defending others is more risky. In Texas you should be ok, but no guarantee. In california or new york I would be very, very reluctant.

November 23, 2009, 10:12 AM	#4
Land Shark Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Melbourne Florida Posts: 34	Thanks guys , this is a florida thing you can have it it has to 3 un loaded in glove box , a 3 step deal

November 23, 2009, 12:12 PM	#6
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	It's all going to depend on the legality, under your particular local law, of having the gun in the car. Some jurisdictions may make a distinction between "transporting" a gun between place where you may legally possess it and "having" a gun in a car, even if unloaded, on a regular basis. I don't claim to know; it's something that should be checked on. It's entirely possible to justifiably use a gun in self defense and still be convicted on a weapons charge. Bernie Goetz, is pretty much the "poster child" for that outcome. He was acquitted of assault (i. e., the jury agreed that his use of lethal force in self defense was justified), but he was still convicted and sent to jail for illegal possession of the gun.

November 23, 2009, 01:24 PM	#9
Land Shark Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Melbourne Florida Posts: 34	Yes sorry I was useing the old rules I still untill I get my carry card leave them unloaded

November 23, 2009, 01:40 PM	#10
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	Carrying an UNloaded firearm can get you killed. If you are going to have it, load it.

November 23, 2009, 10:59 PM	#12
Land Shark Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Melbourne Florida Posts: 34	Just put the clip in the one in the car and one in the pipe

November 23, 2009, 11:04 PM	#13
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	Outstanding! Did the references to the actual Florida statutes help?

November 24, 2009, 08:57 AM	#14
Land Shark Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Melbourne Florida Posts: 34	Yes Sir , thanks for the help