.45 acp for a mountain gun?

[357MagFan]

Would .45acp be good enough for self defense against say a black bear? I don't intend to hunt with it, I know .45 isn't ideal or even very good for that. Just a woods self defense gun.

I would rather not buy another gun at this point but if .45 is really that bad for a mountain caliber, I may consider it.

Out of curiosity HAS anyone tried hunting with .45? If so what were your results?

[FrankenMauser]

.45 Auto should be just fine for a mountain gun.

The biggest challenge, when it comes to dangerous creatures, is actually putting the rounds on target.

I have been mock charged by a black bear sow (with a cub) twice, and actually had to scare her off once. I can tell you, almost unequivocally, that I really doubt I could have gotten more than 2 rounds into her entire body; had I needed to fire. (As things usually go... I was unarmed for the first 2 charges, and the third had my rifle and pistol locked inside the truck door I was backed up against. I had to throw a muddy log at her {about 15 feet to her and cub}, and run like hell to the driver's door. The charges took place separately, over about a month.)


.45 Auto may not be as super-awesome-cool as .500 S&W Mag or .50 AE, but I would trust my life to it.

[Big Bill]

MagFan - How big are the bears where you live? Frankly, I'd feel more comfortable carrying a Marlin 336 30-30, if I were you. The 336W even comes with a sling, etc.

[357MagFan]

Big Bill, there are no bears where I live. Its where I will be going. I plan to hike the appalachian trail starting in the spring. I know there are black bears around parts of the trail and am going to bring a gun. Not just for bears but 2 legged rogue critters. You never know.

I definitely don't want to be hauling something like a rifle or a shot gun and even my 6inch .357 686 might be to big to haul considering I plan to hike around 2000 miles and will have lots of other gear.

So I have been contemplating using my Glock 21.

[357MagFan]

Thanks FrankenMauser, I think I will go ahead and use what I have then. But I wouldn't mind hearing other opinions if someone has something to say.

[T. O'Heir]

Yogi won't bother you unless you bother him. Ditto for Cindy, unless you get between her and her kids. A .45 won't phase either of 'em unless you're good enough to make a head/spine shot. You'll never be fast enough if Yogi is PO'd.
"...rather not buy another gun..." Have a pump shotgun?

[lachanceent]

sounds like a job for fmj +p ammo

[357MagFan]

Heir, no I don't have a shotgun but I do have a lever action .357. Its an 1894c.

[jgcoastie]

Short answer? No. (IMO)

If you want a semi-auto "mountain gun", I think the best one out there would be the Glock 20/20SF (10mm)... Loaded with 200gr WFNGC Beartooth rounds from Mike over at DoubleTap. Hotter than a .357 Magnum and more rounds to boot...

Been carrying mine every day I've been in the field up here... Been at touching distance from mad brown bears. Never felt under-gunned.

Best option would be a $35 can of bear spray. I carry one in addition to my G20SF in the field.

[kayakersteve]

If you don't intend on buying another larger bore gun, this is your choice. I would feel comfortable on the AT with it becuase you are more likley to run into bad people than bad animals. For bear coverage, I would use FMJ +P or a good +P JHP by Buffalo Bore or another premium company. Have fun!

[riggins_83]

For Black bear I'd steer clear of 45ACP. Go with the Glock 10MM or a 44mag/454.

[Art Eatman]

While it wouldn't be my first choice, it beats heck out of having nothing. Since the odds of problems are rather low on the App Trail, I'd go with my own LW Commander. I'd probably go with a max load of 200-grain SWCs over the usual hardball. Regardless, I'd go for a penetrating load over an expanding load.

It's mostly a matter of your own ability to control adrenalin and your skill at multiple hits on a target in a very short time. Not "double tap" but "quadruple tap". (Thanks, IPSC.)

[jrothWA]

various ammo makers.
For .357, it was recommended either 180 gr Hardcast lead or the FMJ @ max velocity.
For .45, it was indicated that the old Hornady 230gr FMJ-FP load would be good.

Have never needed to use, the two times I "strategically withdrew".

[30-30remchester]

Let me first state I am a big fan of the 45 ACP and have hunted a couple animals with one. I shot a small doe antelope with a 45 using Win 185 grn Silvertips.The results were very dissapointing. Also shot a javaline with a 45. Acording to bear guides the only way to stop any animal instantly is to penatrate the brain or spine. From my limited experences with the 45 would confirm they do have ample power to break a bears skull IF proper non expanding bullets are used.

[GeauxTide]

9mm, 357, and 45acp were designed for.......people shooting! Nothing less than a 45LC 275LFN@1100fps, 41Mag 210RemSP@1300, or a 44Mag 240Rem@1300 for my hide on the line with a critter that can overpower and eat me.

[koolminx]

Anything from a .22LR on up will kill a bear. If you are hunted by a bear and it attacks you the pistol is the best defense because you can use it from any angle and can't with a rifle...

Bear coming at you and you unload 8 shots into it's face and head with your .45 ACP, if it does NOT die or run away, then a 454 casul nor a 460 weatherby would have helped you...

Shot placement is your best friend no matter what caliber you shoot. But when attacked, I vote for volume of hellfire... 9mm X 15 or 12 rounds in a clip, or a .45 with 6 or 10 rounds (however many fits) and your survival chances go way up.....

[Big Bill]

MagFan - under the conditions you specified, the Glock you already have will be just fine. How many bears have killed people on the Appalachian Trail? Common you guys, let's get real. A Glock 21 is ample gun to take in this situation. If it were me, I'd carry my Glock 19 and feel comfortable. However, MagFan, you might want to carry some bear pepper spray just in case. You don't want to have to shoot a bear, if you don't have to.

[jgcoastie]

Anything from a .22LR on up will kill a bear. If you are hunted by a bear and it attacks you the pistol is the best defense because you can use it from any angle and can't with a rifle...

- A .22lr may kill a bear, but rest assured that a .22lr will not stop a bear, which is the most important factor when attacked by any animal/human. Stopping the threat immediately is much preferred to the threat dying eventually...

- Bears generally don't hunt people...

- Handguns are the absolute worst weapon for stopping a bear attack. Depending on which study you reference, handguns are between 40%-60% effective at stopping bear attacks in Alaska. Bear spray is between 99%-100% effective at stopping bear attacks, regardless of wind conditions. You know the saying "Handguns are only good for fighting your way to a rifle."? It's not just a funny saying. Your odds of stopping a bear increase dramatically when you move from a handgun to a rifle. There's probably a reason that professional hunters/guides use big-bore rifles for game protection in Africa. If handguns were really better, don't you think they'd be carrying them?

Bear coming at you and you unload 8 shots into it's face and head with your .45 ACP, if it does NOT die or run away, then a 454 casul nor a 460 weatherby would have helped you...

- On a smallish black bear, a .45acp may do the trick. Anything is better than nothing.

- That .454 or .460 won't help him a bit if he doesn't have one with him.

Shot placement is your best friend no matter what caliber you shoot. But when attacked, I vote for volume of hellfire... 9mm X 15 or 12 rounds in a clip, or a .45 with 6 or 10 rounds (however many fits) and your survival chances go way up.....

- Your only valid point thus far... Shot placement is your friend.

- You vote wrong. In an actual bear attack, those 12 or 15 rounds will not do you any good. You'll have enough time for two, maybe three shots tops.

- It's called a magazine, not a clip.

- Your survival chances would be nil. Your entire post is full of fallacies and misinformation. You apparently do not have any actual experience dealing with bears. As such, your misinformation would be foolhardy at best and fatal at worst. I'm sure you have a wealth of information to offer to the firearms community, just not on this particular subject. Stick to what you know, mkay?

[MTT TL]

Would .45acp be good enough for self defense against say a black bear?

But I thought you were a .357 mag fan?

Yes, of course it is enough for black bears.

- Handguns are the absolute worst weapon for stopping a bear attack. Depending on which study you reference, handguns are between 40%-60% effective at stopping bear attacks in Alaska. Bear spray is between 99%-100% effective at stopping bear attacks, regardless of wind conditions.

I don't know about all that

The Herrero and Higgins study found sprays 94% effective in actual encounters but no study I know of has ever been done on handguns.

[ligonierbill]

The unfortunate truth in today's world is that danger on the AT is far more likely to come from people than bears. Bears are best deterred with bear spray, but evil people are not. Carry your .45 and enjoy.

[treg]

Any of the "big three" auto pistol calibers would be a good choice for your intended use. Bullet choice is what will make the difference.

Ball ammo may not produce enough of a wound channel on the 2 legged's.

HP's may not penetrate enough for the 4 legged's.

A SWC, TCFP, or RNFP solid bullet should put you right where you want to be.

A reliably feeding bullet among those choices in that order is what I'd take. Gun familiarity would trump buying a new one simply for a different caliber.

[Yankee Doodle]

Just a thought. How are you planning to carry a .45 through all the states you will have to pass through if you intend to do the A.T.?
I know for a fact, that if you are caught in NY without a valid NYS Pistol Permit, you will be spending a lot of time dealing with the Police and the courts.
Unless you are an active or retired LEO, with the correct papers, fuggedaboudit.
Just a bit of advise, take it or not, your choice.

[Dragon55]

Guns are still not allowed in the Great Smoky Mountains national park – at least not yet...

Firearms that are loaded have been long banned from the Great Smoky Mountains national park since President Regan signed into law that guns in national parks must be unloaded and inaccessible.

[jgcoastie]

I don't know about all that

I do.

I live up here. Humans share this island with the largest carnivore on earth, don't you think I'd be well-versed in the best tools for stopping bears? I've only been charged thrice... Bear spray made them all tuck tail and run...

What are you confused about? Ask any reasonable, sane person what weapon they would rather enter a fight with, when encountering any animal or human. Most all will tell you they'd rather enter a fight with a long gun.

But if we would rather fight with long guns, then why do we carry handguns?

Because handguns are much easier and less cumbersome to carry. And rifles/shotguns are kinda hard to conceal... It really is as simple as that...

The Herrero and Higgins study found sprays 94% effective in actual encounters but no study I know of has ever been done on handguns.

The state of Alaska looked at statistics compiled by ADF&G over a number of years. They looked at all cases of reported bear attacks, and what weapons were used to stop each. Even in considerable opposing wind, the sprays were effective.

I guess there are some who refuse to accept that they don't know of everything that happens...

[Crankylove]

While it wouldn't be my first choice, it beats heck out of having nothing

Yep. The best gun is gonna be the one you have on you.

I have 45 ACP pitols, and .357 mag. They both get carried about the same amount of time when out in the boonies, and I have never felt undergunned yet.

When I am out hiking/hunting/camping, my self defense gun isn't so much for four legged vermin, but to protect my self from the two legged kind.