Long Gun Conceal Carry TX

Sabre9mm · August 3, 2015, 12:20 PM

So I managed to actually get a hold of a Gen 2 Sub 2000 9mm at a not completely outrageous price. And it can trade mags / suppressor with my G17 :-D

Now this of course is not a handgun, and so I know my CHL has nothing to do with it. Nor is it something I would consider carting around daily for its bulk and being completely impractical.

What I cannot seem to nail down is is it completely legal to put this thing in my backpack and walk around with it in TX?

I would think 30.06 does not apply to it, because it is clearly not a handgun, the 51% law would because it is a weapon. So common sense rule on that one.

And I know I can carry my long guns around town square (if I want to join the parade) And in my truck, but can I carry it on my person concealed, say in my backpack with my laptop?

Would having the suppressor on / off / or even with it change the scope of what was legal in that respect?

The gist of it is that I do plan on carrying it that way if i were to say go to the range on my motorcycle, go to a friends house to show it off, etc... and I certainly would not leave it anywhere, Id est, wherever I am it would be...

From what I understand Texas has no laws specifically covering long guns outside it being classified as a *weapon* (46.02) and subject to any laws restricting *weapons*

So somewhere between *not illegal means legal*, *do not be stupid*, and *know your rights*, this leaves the issue a bit grey.

Is it safe to say (or better yet legally tested) that this would be completely legal and within my rights as long as I was not being stupid?

dakota.potts · August 3, 2015, 03:59 PM

There's a very similar situation here in South Carolina. Technically, without a CWP, it's not at all illegal (at least anywhere I've found or anywhere anybody has been able to show me) to conceal carry a long gun and you can even ignore posted "no concealable weapons" signs because they only affect weapons with a length of no more than 12 inches along its greatest dimension. In fact, our law states that it's illegal to carry a weapon usually used for the injury of another person, but then goes on to specifically exempt rifles, shotguns, knives, razors and some other weapons.

I've considered doing this with a backpack designed for the purpose and a folding stocked VZ 58.

However, I can't help but imagine it would be nearly impossible to deploy in any relative amount of time. If caught with it, I can guarantee you'll be arrested even if you end up in the right, and if you use it in self defense I can only imagine you'll be crucified on trial. I just don't see any situation where it turns out to be a net positive.

Sabre9mm · August 3, 2015, 04:57 PM

Oh, the intent would certainly not to be a EDC weapon.
I have handguns for that, and would not even dream of relying on this as a goto solution for defense...

I am more concerned with something ordinary such as a traffic stop or something turning not a nightmare because of a *ignorance of the law is no exception* type ruling, or worse still loosing my CHL status or even a felony

For instance, let us just say Wal-Mart, whereas I can freely walk in and out with my CHL and a handgun concealed (Texas soon to open, law passed, effective January), say I go there on my bike on the way to or home from the range or otherwise legal place, I take my backpack with me, I buy something, someone sees it, and calls a lawman.

Or I get pulled over for a traffic violation, tell the officer it is in my backpack (which would be the smart thing to do)

Texas has a provision in their law that exempts "printing" or otherwise unintentional display *of handguns*. Open carry groups here routinely march through business and restaurants with heir ARs and shotguns, but they are open and can be seen.

The law simply does not state anything saying "If you have a weapon that classifies as a long gun, yet small enough to conceal, this is the guide" (that I can find, or any real cases where it was tested)

Texas law goes into detail about Knives, clubs, etc... http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/PE.46.htm But this area has to fall into the "if it is not forbidden it is permitted", and since a rock can be used to pin a weapons charge with the wrong intent, and a weapons charge can come from the completely right intent, it is uncertain ground.

Mostly what I turn up online is *come and take it* type argument, which is fine, I love my rights too, but a good argument does not always keep one out of the hot seat.

And the hot seat when it involves NFA gear could get VERY hot, hotter than I would want to chance if there was even a doubt, but I cannot find said doubt spelled out in any form or any clear fashion.

So I figured I would start another thread to LEO, Legal folk, or people who have faced such things to carry it out a little further than all the other posts I could gravedig here or elsewhere...

wally626 · August 3, 2015, 05:20 PM

Most states have provisions for concealed carry of weapons to and from ranges, gunsmiths etc. most require unloaded cased carry. They would not cover carrying a gun for other reasons. I do not know the Texas laws but I would not be surprised if they have such laws. If this is true you would be fine going to the range, but perhaps not on a shopping trip to Walmart.

dakota.potts · August 3, 2015, 06:05 PM

I would be investigating along the same lines as Wally is thinking. I'm sure Texas has provisions for transporting a firearm from a place of purchase, gunsmith, shooting range, hunting etc as well laws on how to transport it in a vehicle.

I have heard other people say that Texas does lack any law prohibiting the general concealed carry of a long gun, but I think you'd be far better off figuring out your specific exemptions (such as taking it to the range) versus trying to argue that it's not illegal to conceal a rifle in Texas.

Context is everything, also. Having it unloaded in a gun case with targets in your possession or a receipt for purchase is going to be treated differently than slinging it under a trench coat and going to Walmart... just to give two extreme examples. Even if both are legal, I guarantee they get different reactions.

rickyrick · August 3, 2015, 06:16 PM

I know that there is no restrictions for open carrying a loaded long gun in Texas.

You may be the proud recipient of a free background check for doing so.

I routinely carried loaded rifles to and from a farm to city.

I did get stopped a few times, the officers did not get upset, but did check to be sure I could legally posses a firearm.

I can't speak to concealing a long gun aside from the standard rifle case or other means.

I would think that concealing a rifle on your person would result in extra questions at a minimum

raimius · August 3, 2015, 09:26 PM

I don't know the TX laws on this, but keeping it unloaded might be a smart legal precaution.
As far as I know, transporting a rifle is fine, as long as you are a legal owner, etc.

Since this isn't going to be your primary defensive carry anyway, I'd just keep it unloaded, with a couple magazines in a different pocket.

Sabre9mm · August 3, 2015, 09:43 PM

Yeah, unloaded would not be a problem, since A: it cannot be chambered while folded (and therefore concealed), and B: I have no desire or plan to rapidly deploy it in any measure.

The "to and from range" aspect from what I know of the law would be moot because the legal question would be "am I legally allowed to posses it where I am?", where I was headed to or from would be largely irrelevant pending it was not a crime scene.

It is much such like the question I had once, tried to get a straight answer from local LEO. May I strap my rifle over my back and ride to the range?

They could say neither yea or nay that it would be "legal" or not, only that they were unaware of anything prohibiting it outright, but if the person sitting at a red light next to me felt threatened by it, they could ticket me for a disturbance.

So My response was, if I am exercising a legal right and someone feels threatened by it, is that not their problem, provided I am not actually displaying it in a menacing manner?

The officer conceded that most likely not any fallout from it other than half a day lost while it was straightened out, because they would be duty bound to act...

As of yet I have not been bored enough, and or found myself with an excess of money for attorney fees to test that theory.

I would surmise that if I were not doing anything stupid, in a place where it was not outright illegal, then the right to do it does not trump the right of the law to clarify it at the expense of my time and plans, and at most I would cost myself inconvenience.

And I cannot help but believe this is the same question from a different angle.

I would also guess that being a CHL, clean record, productive member of society, that it would likely make it no further than a few questions and or polite requests if I did not get up in arms (no pun intended) about it. All said though it is a bummer that what could be such a serious matter is so open to interpretation.

kilimanjaro · August 3, 2015, 11:12 PM

Sounds like a lot of issues could be avoided simply by taking your car to the range instead of your bicycle, and not making stops along the way. A little forethought and discipline goes a lot further than trying to finesse the legal system.

**JohnKSa** · August 3, 2015, 11:45 PM

Quote:

I know that there is no restrictions for open carrying a loaded long gun in Texas.

That's true as far as the penal code goes, however it is possible to run afoul of game laws under certain circumstances.

In general, the legality of carrying a firearm in TX is not altered by whether it's loaded or unloaded.

I am also not aware of any TX laws that discriminate between open and concealed carry of long guns.

Sabre9mm · August 4, 2015, 08:14 AM

@kilimanjaro: The range I use is 25mi from my house, I take my motorcycle, not bicycle.

And the question is broader than covered going to and from the range, what about a friend or relative's house, And what about being out away from home, no where else to put it, and need to do things while out. If i have gone on a trip somewhere I certainly would not leave it in a hotel room, etc...

I spend most of my travel time on my motorcycle, not in a 4 wheeled vehicle, otherwise the question would be a simple *leave it in the car*

And it is really not trying to finesse the legal system so much as understand it, for instance I am not the kind of person that would tell a concerned officer "screw you I have rights", but I do want to know with a reasonable certainty when I do something I will not end up with charges for simply not understanding, and would prefer to avoid that situation.

With handguns, that is easy, there are essentially two lists, if it is not on one of them, it is pretty much fair play. I can cite the particular law, and know my rights pretty well in that regard.

But then there is this,

and common sense that make me approach this with some trepidation, because the world at large is gearing up for "anyone with a gun is a mad lunatic hellbent on killing us all"

August 3, 2015, 12:20 PM	#1
Sabre9mm Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 303	Long Gun Conceal Carry TX So I managed to actually get a hold of a Gen 2 Sub 2000 9mm at a not completely outrageous price. And it can trade mags / suppressor with my G17 :-D Now this of course is not a handgun, and so I know my CHL has nothing to do with it. Nor is it something I would consider carting around daily for its bulk and being completely impractical. What I cannot seem to nail down is is it completely legal to put this thing in my backpack and walk around with it in TX? I would think 30.06 does not apply to it, because it is clearly not a handgun, the 51% law would because it is a weapon. So common sense rule on that one. And I know I can carry my long guns around town square (if I want to join the parade) And in my truck, but can I carry it on my person concealed, say in my backpack with my laptop? Would having the suppressor on / off / or even with it change the scope of what was legal in that respect? The gist of it is that I do plan on carrying it that way if i were to say go to the range on my motorcycle, go to a friends house to show it off, etc... and I certainly would not leave it anywhere, Id est, wherever I am it would be... From what I understand Texas has no laws specifically covering long guns outside it being classified as a weapon (46.02) and subject to any laws restricting weapons So somewhere between not illegal means legal, do not be stupid, and know your rights, this leaves the issue a bit grey. Is it safe to say (or better yet legally tested) that this would be completely legal and within my rights as long as I was not being stupid?

August 3, 2015, 03:59 PM	#2
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	There's a very similar situation here in South Carolina. Technically, without a CWP, it's not at all illegal (at least anywhere I've found or anywhere anybody has been able to show me) to conceal carry a long gun and you can even ignore posted "no concealable weapons" signs because they only affect weapons with a length of no more than 12 inches along its greatest dimension. In fact, our law states that it's illegal to carry a weapon usually used for the injury of another person, but then goes on to specifically exempt rifles, shotguns, knives, razors and some other weapons. I've considered doing this with a backpack designed for the purpose and a folding stocked VZ 58. However, I can't help but imagine it would be nearly impossible to deploy in any relative amount of time. If caught with it, I can guarantee you'll be arrested even if you end up in the right, and if you use it in self defense I can only imagine you'll be crucified on trial. I just don't see any situation where it turns out to be a net positive. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

August 3, 2015, 04:57 PM	#3
Sabre9mm Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 303	Oh, the intent would certainly not to be a EDC weapon. I have handguns for that, and would not even dream of relying on this as a goto solution for defense... I am more concerned with something ordinary such as a traffic stop or something turning not a nightmare because of a ignorance of the law is no exception type ruling, or worse still loosing my CHL status or even a felony For instance, let us just say Wal-Mart, whereas I can freely walk in and out with my CHL and a handgun concealed (Texas soon to open, law passed, effective January), say I go there on my bike on the way to or home from the range or otherwise legal place, I take my backpack with me, I buy something, someone sees it, and calls a lawman. Or I get pulled over for a traffic violation, tell the officer it is in my backpack (which would be the smart thing to do) Texas has a provision in their law that exempts "printing" or otherwise unintentional display of handguns. Open carry groups here routinely march through business and restaurants with heir ARs and shotguns, but they are open and can be seen. The law simply does not state anything saying "If you have a weapon that classifies as a long gun, yet small enough to conceal, this is the guide" (that I can find, or any real cases where it was tested) Texas law goes into detail about Knives, clubs, etc... http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/PE.46.htm But this area has to fall into the "if it is not forbidden it is permitted", and since a rock can be used to pin a weapons charge with the wrong intent, and a weapons charge can come from the completely right intent, it is uncertain ground. Mostly what I turn up online is come and take it type argument, which is fine, I love my rights too, but a good argument does not always keep one out of the hot seat. And the hot seat when it involves NFA gear could get VERY hot, hotter than I would want to chance if there was even a doubt, but I cannot find said doubt spelled out in any form or any clear fashion. So I figured I would start another thread to LEO, Legal folk, or people who have faced such things to carry it out a little further than all the other posts I could gravedig here or elsewhere... Last edited by Sabre9mm; August 3, 2015 at 05:16 PM.

August 3, 2015, 06:05 PM	#5
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I would be investigating along the same lines as Wally is thinking. I'm sure Texas has provisions for transporting a firearm from a place of purchase, gunsmith, shooting range, hunting etc as well laws on how to transport it in a vehicle. I have heard other people say that Texas does lack any law prohibiting the general concealed carry of a long gun, but I think you'd be far better off figuring out your specific exemptions (such as taking it to the range) versus trying to argue that it's not illegal to conceal a rifle in Texas. Context is everything, also. Having it unloaded in a gun case with targets in your possession or a receipt for purchase is going to be treated differently than slinging it under a trench coat and going to Walmart... just to give two extreme examples. Even if both are legal, I guarantee they get different reactions. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

August 3, 2015, 06:16 PM	#6
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	I know that there is no restrictions for open carrying a loaded long gun in Texas. You may be the proud recipient of a free background check for doing so. I routinely carried loaded rifles to and from a farm to city. I did get stopped a few times, the officers did not get upset, but did check to be sure I could legally posses a firearm. I can't speak to concealing a long gun aside from the standard rifle case or other means. I would think that concealing a rifle on your person would result in extra questions at a minimum __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

August 3, 2015, 05:20 PM	#4
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	Most states have provisions for concealed carry of weapons to and from ranges, gunsmiths etc. most require unloaded cased carry. They would not cover carrying a gun for other reasons. I do not know the Texas laws but I would not be surprised if they have such laws. If this is true you would be fine going to the range, but perhaps not on a shopping trip to Walmart.

August 3, 2015, 09:26 PM	#7
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	I don't know the TX laws on this, but keeping it unloaded might be a smart legal precaution. As far as I know, transporting a rifle is fine, as long as you are a legal owner, etc. Since this isn't going to be your primary defensive carry anyway, I'd just keep it unloaded, with a couple magazines in a different pocket.

August 3, 2015, 09:43 PM	#8
Sabre9mm Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 303	Yeah, unloaded would not be a problem, since A: it cannot be chambered while folded (and therefore concealed), and B: I have no desire or plan to rapidly deploy it in any measure. The "to and from range" aspect from what I know of the law would be moot because the legal question would be "am I legally allowed to posses it where I am?", where I was headed to or from would be largely irrelevant pending it was not a crime scene. It is much such like the question I had once, tried to get a straight answer from local LEO. May I strap my rifle over my back and ride to the range? They could say neither yea or nay that it would be "legal" or not, only that they were unaware of anything prohibiting it outright, but if the person sitting at a red light next to me felt threatened by it, they could ticket me for a disturbance. So My response was, if I am exercising a legal right and someone feels threatened by it, is that not their problem, provided I am not actually displaying it in a menacing manner? The officer conceded that most likely not any fallout from it other than half a day lost while it was straightened out, because they would be duty bound to act... As of yet I have not been bored enough, and or found myself with an excess of money for attorney fees to test that theory. I would surmise that if I were not doing anything stupid, in a place where it was not outright illegal, then the right to do it does not trump the right of the law to clarify it at the expense of my time and plans, and at most I would cost myself inconvenience. And I cannot help but believe this is the same question from a different angle. I would also guess that being a CHL, clean record, productive member of society, that it would likely make it no further than a few questions and or polite requests if I did not get up in arms (no pun intended) about it. All said though it is a bummer that what could be such a serious matter is so open to interpretation.

August 3, 2015, 11:12 PM	#9
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Sounds like a lot of issues could be avoided simply by taking your car to the range instead of your bicycle, and not making stops along the way. A little forethought and discipline goes a lot further than trying to finesse the legal system.

August 4, 2015, 08:14 AM	#11
Sabre9mm Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 303	@kilimanjaro: The range I use is 25mi from my house, I take my motorcycle, not bicycle. And the question is broader than covered going to and from the range, what about a friend or relative's house, And what about being out away from home, no where else to put it, and need to do things while out. If i have gone on a trip somewhere I certainly would not leave it in a hotel room, etc... I spend most of my travel time on my motorcycle, not in a 4 wheeled vehicle, otherwise the question would be a simple leave it in the car And it is really not trying to finesse the legal system so much as understand it, for instance I am not the kind of person that would tell a concerned officer "screw you I have rights", but I do want to know with a reasonable certainty when I do something I will not end up with charges for simply not understanding, and would prefer to avoid that situation. With handguns, that is easy, there are essentially two lists, if it is not on one of them, it is pretty much fair play. I can cite the particular law, and know my rights pretty well in that regard. But then there is this, and common sense that make me approach this with some trepidation, because the world at large is gearing up for "anyone with a gun is a mad lunatic hellbent on killing us all"