How far should I go..

JTReloader · December 8, 2016, 12:42 AM

I'm about to load my first batch as a new reloader. I will be loading .40 S&W and .223 to start with. I plan on making a batch of each, varying the powder load within the books recommendations. I know you work up in loads but my question is where do you stop? Let's say I'm loading for .40 S&W with powder charges of 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4 grains. Let's pretend that's the range from min to max. Now let's pretend each produce equivalent grouping and the lowest charge is enough to cycle my firearm. For target purposes, should I use the lesser charge? Or go up?

NoSecondBest · December 8, 2016, 04:50 AM

Based on what you said about cycling the gun and equal grouping, what would be the point in "going up"? Accuracy and reliability are all that matter here.

waveslayer · December 8, 2016, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTReloader

I'm about to load my first batch as a new reloader. I will be loading .40 S&W and .223 to start with. I plan on making a batch of each, varying the powder load within the books recommendations. I know you work up in loads but my question is where do you stop? Let's say I'm loading for .40 S&W with powder charges of 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4 grains. Let's pretend that's the range from min to max. Now let's pretend each produce equivalent grouping and the lowest charge is enough to cycle my firearm. For target purposes, should I use the lesser charge? Or go up?

Good question, I load the minimum to cycle my weapon that groups well for hand guns, saves powder.

For rifle you need to read how to do a OCW test by Dan Newberry

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

jmr40 · December 8, 2016, 06:47 AM

If you're just punching holes in paper the lightest load that is accurate and will cycle reliably is all you need. If you're using it for social purposes the hottest load that will provide accuracy and cycle reliably.

JeepHammer · December 8, 2016, 07:43 AM

Keep this in mind,
40 years of doing this, I've never seen 'Maximum' be the most accurate...

I usually load up to safe maximum just to cover all the bases, but I can't remember one single firearm where maximum was the most accurate.

ONLY CHANGE ONE THING AT A TIME!
Run powder changes,
Run primer changes,
Run bullet changes,
Don't try three changes at once and wonder why you can't sort the data out later...

Wishoot · December 8, 2016, 10:03 AM

If you're getting the results you need from the lowest recommended powder charge, why not just go with that?

You may not save much, but you'll save some powder by doing so.

g.willikers · December 8, 2016, 10:35 AM

What kind of sights are on your guns?
How much of a power factor is required for your loads?
f the lightest load cycles the gun - and the point of impact agrees with the sights, and power factor is not a concern, what else is required?
If the point of impact is off, then the load will need to be adjusted, depending on the type of sights.
A chronograph will show the power factor if that's a concern.
A chronograph should be part of every reloaders kit.
Hope this helps some.

Stats Shooter · December 8, 2016, 11:22 AM

I reload extensively for both .40 S&W and .223/556.
1: As others have said, it is extremely rare that at-or-above maximum is the most accurate load. Like jeephammer I also test up to the max, (beyond sometimes) just to see how close I am to danger but that's the only reason.
2: the lightest, and most consistent load that functions properly and reliably that will accomplish what you need is always best. It is safest, easy on the gun, saves powder, and has lowest possible recoil....i.e if you are shooting 1000 yards, you need velocity AND accuracy. If you are shooting 100 yards, velocity is less important.

mikld · December 8, 2016, 11:53 AM

I agree with Jeephammer. In my 30 or so years reloading the only time I went up to neat max. was with my .44 Magnum, and that was 'cause I wanted it loud! (I had "Magnumitis" for a couple years in the '80s).

For a new reloader I'd suggest keeping the loads mild, as stated, at least until you have developed good, safe reloading habits. A lot of KABOOMS! happen to newer reloaders that get ahead of them selves...

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

JTReloader · December 8, 2016, 03:22 PM

Thanks everyone. I just wasn't sure what the best option was. My mentality was, if the lowest powder charge cycles the firearm, assuming the accuracy is the same as the others, then go with that for it saves powder. But at the same time I wasn't sure if the minimum would be best as I could have one charge that was light and then not enough. So therefore the emit step up would be the best option. Thanks for clarifing and for the tips! What do you guys recommend for a chronograph? I don't exactly have much money so I even though I'd love the biggest and baddest one out there, I can't afford it. What would be a good, run of the mill, accurate but not so spendy chrono?

disseminator · December 8, 2016, 07:28 PM

I try to load range and practice ammo to match my carry or hunting ammo so that I am used to full power. Most factory "self defense" ammo isn't really that hot so I usually don't need a full load to reach it.

If you want more velocity and don't want to load max charges, maybe try a different powder? I use LONGSHOT and Titegroup for most of my pistol reloading and with Hodgdons data you can load a 180g bullet up to 1160fps!

That is really unneccesarry and I can tell you because I have done it a few times and it is blasty to say the least and the slide velocity is extreme too.

So to the point, longshot can move the 180 to 1000 same as factory with just a starting charge of powder. Notice that is a low pressure cartridge at the starting charge as well. A few of the reasons I use it.

T. O'Heir · December 11, 2016, 02:04 PM

"...should I use the lesser charge..." You use whatever load gives the best accuracy. There is no reason to assume a published 'light load' will not cycle the action either.
I would suggest you pick the rifle or the pistol and work up the load for it, first. Then work up the other one.
Don't even think about working up a target pistol load and using something else for carrying. You must practice with the ammo you intend using for CCW.
"...saves powder..." Really isn't an issue. The difference between the number of rounds per pound at 4.2 and 4.4 is negligible. 76 more at 4.2. 4.2 might not be the most accurate anyway. Load for accuracy.
"...recommend for a chronograph?..." Been loading match grade ammo for 40 years without one. Velocity isn't as important as accuracy.
"...extremely rare that at-or-above maximum is..." Not really. Some cartridges and their firearms like hot loads. Some do not. My .30 Carbine load is the current max load.

December 8, 2016, 12:42 AM	#1
JTReloader Member Join Date: December 3, 2016 Posts: 17	How far should I go.. I'm about to load my first batch as a new reloader. I will be loading .40 S&W and .223 to start with. I plan on making a batch of each, varying the powder load within the books recommendations. I know you work up in loads but my question is where do you stop? Let's say I'm loading for .40 S&W with powder charges of 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4 grains. Let's pretend that's the range from min to max. Now let's pretend each produce equivalent grouping and the lowest charge is enough to cycle my firearm. For target purposes, should I use the lesser charge? Or go up?

December 8, 2016, 04:50 AM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Based on what you said about cycling the gun and equal grouping, what would be the point in "going up"? Accuracy and reliability are all that matter here.

December 8, 2016, 06:47 AM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,826	If you're just punching holes in paper the lightest load that is accurate and will cycle reliably is all you need. If you're using it for social purposes the hottest load that will provide accuracy and cycle reliably.

December 8, 2016, 07:43 AM	#5
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	Keep this in mind, 40 years of doing this, I've never seen 'Maximum' be the most accurate... I usually load up to safe maximum just to cover all the bases, but I can't remember one single firearm where maximum was the most accurate. ONLY CHANGE ONE THING AT A TIME! Run powder changes, Run primer changes, Run bullet changes, Don't try three changes at once and wonder why you can't sort the data out later...

December 8, 2016, 10:03 AM	#6
Wishoot Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,093	If you're getting the results you need from the lowest recommended powder charge, why not just go with that? You may not save much, but you'll save some powder by doing so.

December 8, 2016, 10:35 AM	#7
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	What kind of sights are on your guns? How much of a power factor is required for your loads? f the lightest load cycles the gun - and the point of impact agrees with the sights, and power factor is not a concern, what else is required? If the point of impact is off, then the load will need to be adjusted, depending on the type of sights. A chronograph will show the power factor if that's a concern. A chronograph should be part of every reloaders kit. Hope this helps some.

December 8, 2016, 11:22 AM	#8
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	I reload extensively for both .40 S&W and .223/556. 1: As others have said, it is extremely rare that at-or-above maximum is the most accurate load. Like jeephammer I also test up to the max, (beyond sometimes) just to see how close I am to danger but that's the only reason. 2: the lightest, and most consistent load that functions properly and reliably that will accomplish what you need is always best. It is safest, easy on the gun, saves powder, and has lowest possible recoil....i.e if you are shooting 1000 yards, you need velocity AND accuracy. If you are shooting 100 yards, velocity is less important.

December 8, 2016, 11:53 AM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I agree with Jeephammer. In my 30 or so years reloading the only time I went up to neat max. was with my .44 Magnum, and that was 'cause I wanted it loud! (I had "Magnumitis" for a couple years in the '80s). For a new reloader I'd suggest keeping the loads mild, as stated, at least until you have developed good, safe reloading habits. A lot of KABOOMS! happen to newer reloaders that get ahead of them selves... Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

December 8, 2016, 03:22 PM	#10
JTReloader Member Join Date: December 3, 2016 Posts: 17	Thanks everyone. I just wasn't sure what the best option was. My mentality was, if the lowest powder charge cycles the firearm, assuming the accuracy is the same as the others, then go with that for it saves powder. But at the same time I wasn't sure if the minimum would be best as I could have one charge that was light and then not enough. So therefore the emit step up would be the best option. Thanks for clarifing and for the tips! What do you guys recommend for a chronograph? I don't exactly have much money so I even though I'd love the biggest and baddest one out there, I can't afford it. What would be a good, run of the mill, accurate but not so spendy chrono?

December 8, 2016, 07:28 PM	#11
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 961	I try to load range and practice ammo to match my carry or hunting ammo so that I am used to full power. Most factory "self defense" ammo isn't really that hot so I usually don't need a full load to reach it. If you want more velocity and don't want to load max charges, maybe try a different powder? I use LONGSHOT and Titegroup for most of my pistol reloading and with Hodgdons data you can load a 180g bullet up to 1160fps! That is really unneccesarry and I can tell you because I have done it a few times and it is blasty to say the least and the slide velocity is extreme too. So to the point, longshot can move the 180 to 1000 same as factory with just a starting charge of powder. Notice that is a low pressure cartridge at the starting charge as well. A few of the reasons I use it.

December 11, 2016, 02:04 PM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...should I use the lesser charge..." You use whatever load gives the best accuracy. There is no reason to assume a published 'light load' will not cycle the action either. I would suggest you pick the rifle or the pistol and work up the load for it, first. Then work up the other one. Don't even think about working up a target pistol load and using something else for carrying. You must practice with the ammo you intend using for CCW. "...saves powder..." Really isn't an issue. The difference between the number of rounds per pound at 4.2 and 4.4 is negligible. 76 more at 4.2. 4.2 might not be the most accurate anyway. Load for accuracy. "...recommend for a chronograph?..." Been loading match grade ammo for 40 years without one. Velocity isn't as important as accuracy. "...extremely rare that at-or-above maximum is..." Not really. Some cartridges and their firearms like hot loads. Some do not. My .30 Carbine load is the current max load.