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April 24, 2019, 02:02 PM | #1 | |
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Washington: NRA Backs Lawsuit to Prevent Public Database of Gun Owners
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2019...-of-gun-owners
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Moving back to Texas is looking more and more appealing every day. Last edited by rickyrick; April 24, 2019 at 05:15 PM. |
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April 24, 2019, 05:24 PM | #2 | |
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I believe that our right to inspect government records is important. BUT.... I think this fellow has a hyper-expanded unrealistic idea of what the public has a right to know. It seem laughable in the surface of it, what he's asking for is the names & addresses of the people who NO LONGER HAVE "these dangerous devices". What possible purpose could that serve??? how about a list of people who own/owned the semi auto guns those stocks fit on?? Odds are, they still have them. Here's my question for our resident legal eagles, if he files a valid Freedom of information request, can it be denied, if so on what grounds? Can his request be partially granted, so he's given the information he wants, can he legally be prohibited from using it, to make the database he wants? or for any other purpose? Can he make his data base but be legally prohibited from publishing it? Or could he make a map with dots for all the "former dangerous device owners" if he leaves off their names / addreses?? I don't like the "smell" of this, at all...
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April 24, 2019, 05:47 PM | #3 |
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I heard through second hand conversations that many of the stocks surrendered were very cheap versions bought just weeks before the buy-back in order to make a quick profit from the buy-back. The pictures that I saw showed most of them still in the package. I saw a local news segment where they interviewed a guy that was turning some in and that person stated that he had indeed purchased them just before the surrender date.
How does anyone know that the surenderers even own a gun? I do see this as an attempt to dox assault weapon owners. |
April 24, 2019, 09:59 PM | #4 |
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Years back Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan tried to release the Illinois FOID database to the public so that it would be known where firearms owners lived in Illinois for "public safety reasons". There was one heck of an uproar and it never happened but I don't know on what legal grounds it was denied. Obviously thieves would love to know where firearms owners lived.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/illin...-list_n_830244 In this case the motive may also be to expose where some gun owners live for some sort of intimidation motive. I really hope it is not allowed and if it is it will further deter people from complying with such nonsense in the future.
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April 24, 2019, 10:27 PM | #5 |
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Never having any, or any interest in bump fire stocks, I didn't even know there was a buy back program, or an actual ban date. While I am not happy with the govt use my tax money for that, at least someone got something out of the govt stealing their property via legal means.
I do note that the information being sought, is the names and addresses of the people who COMPLIED WITH THE LAW. (or complied with surrender before the law required it). So, comply with the law, get put on a list, and that list to be published in public, if that fellow wins his case...hmmmm DISOBEY the law, and if not caught, you're never on that list. Get caught, and you'll be on a different list, possibly the list of convicted felons. Doesn't seem like either choice is the best one...
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April 24, 2019, 11:02 PM | #6 |
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Release of the information would also provide a pretty good tool for thieves to target likely firearms owners. How does that help make the community safer?
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April 24, 2019, 11:37 PM | #7 |
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I'm quite certain that public safety is not the true intent. The intent is almost certainly to dox gun owners so the "woke' social justice warriors (a.k.a. SJWs) can harass them.
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April 25, 2019, 03:53 AM | #8 | |
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Transparency in government is an important value, but the names and addresses of private individuals who comply with a law isn't a government record in the pertinent sense.
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April 25, 2019, 05:52 AM | #9 |
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I don't think there's much doubt about that.
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April 25, 2019, 05:58 AM | #10 | |
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April 25, 2019, 12:57 PM | #11 |
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Might we make a national security issue? After all, I'm sure terrorists would want to know who might own a semi auto formerly fitted with a bump fire stock, and where they live! (intentional sarcasm)
Yes, I know the devil is in the details of the specific laws and agencies involved, but to me this just stinks. Can I get a list, and publish it, of where all the journalists live? Doesn't the public have a right to know? The Pen is mightier than the sword, right? So Journalists are more dangerous than gun owners!! right?? Oh, better include all the retired "former" journalists, too... or better yet, perhaps just take a simpler route, lets just publish the names and addresses of everyone with a keyboard/phone and internet access??? this thing simply affronts my common sense.
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April 25, 2019, 01:25 PM | #12 | |
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April 25, 2019, 08:56 PM | #13 |
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I don't know about the phone #s, but I'm sure the IRS has all the tax paying journalist's names and addresses. Doubt it is organized by profession, though..
Perhaps also the Census? Though not a really "current" thing, being done only every 10 years... Here's a question, I know tax records are special cases, but what if you ask (file for?) just names, addresses and profession and DON'T ask for any of the (monetary) tax data???
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April 25, 2019, 09:50 PM | #14 |
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All the gun owners in Texas have been published on a map:
But in all seriousness, 'DOXX-ing', the publishing of home addresses and other contact information of a person or group of persons, has been decided in many but not all states to be a crime.
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April 26, 2019, 08:35 AM | #15 |
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The person who requested the information for purposes of building a database claims their name is Yati Arguna, which appears to be a pseudonym. Of course, that's not a double standard at all.
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April 26, 2019, 11:40 AM | #16 | |
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Lists are for people who break the law.
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April 26, 2019, 01:41 PM | #17 | ||
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(yes, deliberate sarcasm) Quote:
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April 27, 2019, 11:54 AM | #18 | |
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April 27, 2019, 12:09 PM | #19 |
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why not a list of registered voters showing when and where they voted? not asking for who they voted for mind you, just the government record......
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April 27, 2019, 06:26 PM | #20 | |
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The only real way to get experience is to go work for the bureaucratic agency that decides those rules. And there are many disincentives to do that. On the one hand, we want our government to be transparent with us. On the other, our governments at all levels hoover up vast amounts of personal information. If you are the guy who tipped off the Feds that El Chapo was living next door, you really don’t want that to be subject to FOIA - and neither do the Feds as that cuts down on cooperation. There are actually TWO Washington state requests on bump stocks. The first one is from a pseudonym who wants to use the info to expose gun owners. The second is from a pro-2A litigant who doesn’t believe the first person actually exists and wants to expose what he believes to be a scam. Both requests will reveal a lot of private data if granted; but the second one has the potential to reveal more. Sadly, unless that guy hired a pro, he’s unlikely to ever realize what he doesn’t know. |
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April 28, 2019, 06:55 AM | #21 |
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That's not correct. I've underlined the error. Many (if not all) states have their own FOIAs.
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April 28, 2019, 08:19 AM | #22 | |
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May 19, 2019, 10:40 AM | #23 | |
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Ask and ye shall... But - yes, a lot of voter registration information is available to just about anyone that wants it & for just about any reason whatsoever - even when & where they voted in some cases. |
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May 19, 2019, 03:58 PM | #24 |
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I just hope we all remember that the NRA is backing (funding?) this lawsuit when next we start complaining about the NRA.
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May 19, 2019, 04:13 PM | #25 | |
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In this case, the information is possessed by the state of Washington and the state law of Washington will apply. That’s generally what I was trying to convey. |
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