Factory ammo keeps coming up less expensive

[Davey]

I'm not a gun owner quite yet but I'm very interested in the idea of hand loading my own ammo.

I've read a lot of material on-line stating that hand loading can be less expensive than comparable factory ammo.

My problem is that every time I do the math with an online calculator, my own spreadsheet, or by hand the factory ammo keeps coming out virtually equal in cost and in some cases even less expensive.

I found one calculator and even with calculating the reuse of the brass the factory ammo was still less expensive.

I've tried to figure out costs for 9mm and 45 ACP ammo.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[Davey]

Ah hah, figured it out. I was off on how much powder do use by about a factor of 14.

[kadima]

You are not so wrong for commonly available calibesr like the .45 or the 9mm. There is just a slight economy for the hand loade ammo, ofo course if you reload small quantities, the difference in price dangerously approaches "nil".

The reasons for reloading are mainly (and someone may have more than one reason at the same time):
- difficult to find ammo
- expensive ammo
- want to have something more specific to your needs rather than the commercially available thing
- having another guns related activity while away from the firing range
- like to thinker with things.

If you feel that any of these criteria may apply to you, then you may find reloading a rewarding activity.

Just my humble opinion

K.

[Real Gun]

I believe the math says you have to use brass that didn't cost anything. Probably the best example is 9 mm. I am going to a sale today where CCI Brass Blazer 115gr FMJ is available for $10 a box (50), limit 10.

If one has more time than money, reloading 9 mm can make sense. I do it but am getting weary of all the head stamp sorting, primer pocket reaming, presizing and decapping, 100% gauging, and ejector damage filing peculiar to that caliber. 40 SW is almost as bad, while .45 has no issues except the NT headstamps on cases with small primer pockets.

On all but 45 ACP I am seriously considering doing all new brass or only once fired with a single headstamp from military or LE ranges. If I dread reloading, I will stop doing it, so the extra expense has its place. At a minimum, I will process brass only when I am in the mood or need the out-of-pocket savings, or desirable brass is simply not available on my time line.

[ZeSpectre]

Ah hah, figured it out. I was off on how much powder do use by about a factor of 14.

Been there, done that.
Also, as has been stated by others you have to understand that common calibers might not help much. Get into stuff like 10mm and the equation changes pretty rapidly.

[spacecoast]

Yeah, that's GRAINS, not GRAMS. 1 gram = 15.3 grains.

I keep a log of everything I reload (.380, .38, .357, 9mm and 45ACP) and on average, I've saved about 20 cents a round through the first 6,000 rounds (or about $1200). My brass is free range pickup. That savings varies considerably, from ~10 cents a round for 9mm to 25-30 cents a round for .357. It's almost not worth it for 9mm, given how hard they can be to deprime and resize with my hand press, but I enjoy it so much I do it anyway even for 10c per round (that's still $5 a box savings).

[reloader28]

Other than maybe cheap 223, I save a bunch on ALL rifle calibers. The bigger the gun, the more you save.
$40 vs $12/box = 30-06
$75 vs $13/box = 300Wby mag (same bullet and primer, just more powder)

I save a pile of money on every pistol I load for too, including 9mm. But I also shoot nothing but my own home cast bullets in them. I can load around 850 45acp for about $30. 9mm of course uses a touch less powder so it would be a touch cheaper. Around here, thats saving money.

Been a long time since I bought jacketed pistol bullets, so I know nothing of those prices.

[mapsjanhere]

If you load 9mm, 45 ACP or 223 you won't see much of an effect.
But if you shoot big rifle cartridges you quickly notice it. My 300 RUM costs $3/round, I can reload for under $1 with top grade components.

[jaguarxk120]

One of the biggest things about reloading is tayloring the loads to what your shooting at! The 300 RUM is a grate caliber but setting at the bench shooting full power rounds just beats you up. Loading down to 30-06 or 30-30 velocitys makes much for more pracical shooting. After all were just punching a hole in a piece of paper.

[BigJimP]

There are savings - even in 9mm - where you can reload for less than $ 6 a box (124 gr RN) even if you're buying components in small quantities / and thats at least a savings of $ 3 - $ 5 for a box of 50. The savings in .45 acp are more significant with reloads costing around $8 a box / compared to about $20 per box retail.

The price of comml ammo has come down a little / but so have things like the price of primers ( where I paid $ 28/1,000 last weekend ) vs $40/1,000 a year or so ago.

I don't buy brass - I pick it up off the range floor. I clean it / and re-use it ( I don't sort by head stamp or clean out primer pockets ) ...I just reload it. My Dillon 650 press will easily turn out 1,000 rds an hour ....so it takes very little time to load 40 boxes of 50.

[CrustyFN]

If you buy in bulk when you see a deal online you should be able to load 9mm for half of what cheap WWB ammo cost and have a lot better ammo. That is providing you don't have to buy any brass. I get all of my brass from the range and never buy any.

[DiscoRacing]

S&W 500 magnum is a difference for sure.

[CrustyFN]

BigJim, Wldemers has Wolf primers now for $18 per thousand. I'm hoping this is a sign of things getting back to normal.

[rtpzwms]

Davey.

What cost factors are you using?

Bullet = x
Powder = x grains
case= x
primers= x/hundred or thousand

Remember that you will buy fewer cases. For many of us cases = 0 if you go to ranges that allow you to pick up brass. When I bought my first 45 it was because I had so many cases that I thought I should make use of them. I was well over 1000 at the time. It seems that every time I go to the range I always have more that I brought coming home with me. In fact I'll bet many here have many rounds that the don't even own a gun that matches.

If your adding all of the hardware costs press, scale and dies... That cost gets better each time you add a caliber. And time is another factor. The longer you reload I'm now over 25 years your press and everything you've got has been used so many times that the cost per round is next to nothing.

The time away from those you love and are driving you insane at the moment....PRICELESS!
Time showing the kids what you're doing and letting them help is pretty great too.

[Jim243]

Davey

Reloading is a hobby buy itself, reasons to do so are varried and saving money is one of the minor reasons, if one at all.

I started reloading about 7 years ago because my best friend did so and I had an opportunity to use some of his reloads. I was not happy with the commercial ammo I was using for my 45 ACP pistol. It only took one time at reloading my own cartrages to be sold on the whole process. They shoot so much better that it was like day and night between the difference.

With the inital investment in equipment and supplies, very little will be saved at first or even cost you more than buying commercial ammo. But that was not an important factor for me, 1) it was something different for me to do, 2) It gave me and my best friend more in common to talk about, 3) My shooting improved by 300%.

To make a long story short, some of the benefits of reloading are 1) never worrying about if ammo is available, 2) I can put together just the right ammo for each rifle and pistol that works the best, 3) the equipment has paid for itself by now so I am saving money (maybe, or just buying more supplies), 4) and I have a hobby that will last me till I can no longer pull a trigger.

I use to reload to shoot, now I shoot so I have a reason to reload.

Best of luck on your choice, but reloading is fun and relaxing.
Jim

[BigJimP]

Crusty,

at my local gun show last weekend / I found tables with 50,000 CCI primers both small pistil and large pistol / and one with 10,000 or Win large pistol primers - all for $ 28/1,000 ( no tax, no shipping ....) ....and both are better than Wolf, in my opinion.

So yes, I think the cost of primers, powder and bullets are all coming back to a reasonable level hopefully / and more importantly, they're readily available...

( and as we both know, our reloads - are a lot better quality than any of the cheap stuff retail ). But I'd reload even if the cost was a wash ....I like it / its good quiet time ...

[zippy13]

Davey,

For significant savings, consider casting your own bullets. In another thread, I mentioned getting free lead in the form of the foil used to protect x-ray film. The 4 pounds of foil I got from my dentist was quickly changed into $30 worth of bullets. As a rough reference, I can reload .38 WC target loads, using home cast bullets, for about the same price as 22LR ammo.

When comparing costs, a newb may forget that loaded pistol ammo typically comes in boxes 50 and components come in boxes of 100. Components yield 2 boxes of reloads, not one.

[margiesex]

Bland, factory ammo can be CLOSE to hand loads in cost - but it depends what you want to shoot. Especially to carry.

Example: Rem 45 ACP 230 grain Golden Sabre JHP's will run you about 50 - 70 cents a piece if you have to pay for shipping and tax - perhaps even more. I load 100 for under $40.00 with free range brass.

You can always save bucks shooting a plated bullet - I could probably load 9's for what? 6-7 a box or less if I used a plated bullet. But my 124 grain Hornady XTP load that costs ( and this is from an OLD box I have ) has a sticker of $ 13.95 for 25 rounds from the factory - I load 100 for about 22-24 dollars!

Cheap, paper punching stuff is all over the place, but a: I wouldn't carry it, nor b. do I trust Wolf in semi auto's.

I spend a LITTLE more, but my loads are up there with the best factory loads (or better) at usually less than half the price.

All the best!

God bless.

Margiesex

NRA Life Member

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon!

[Uncle Buck]

.45 Long Colt $36.48 a box (25 count) = $1.46 per shot. (Walmart, as of yesterday.)

My reloads cost me .23 cents a shot.

It all depends on the caliber.

[CrustyFN]

But I'd reload even if the cost was a wash ....I like it / its good quiet time ...

I couldn't agree more with you on that one. I started reloading just to save money but it soon turned into a hobby that I enjoy as much as shooting, same with casting bullets. As far as the Wolf primers two friends and I have gone through 50,000 with no problems. If the other brands were available and close in price I would buy them first but the Wolf's I have use have been very good primers.

[BigJimP]

Ok, I'll keep that in mind ....

[Rampant_Colt]

I like to standardize on a specific load that suits my needs, then buy in bulk quantities when the items are on sale. It's a good idea to go in on a keg of powder or other bulk reloading component with a friend to further your overall savings. I frequently watch for "FACTORY BLOWOUT" sales, or seasonal bargains for extra savings

I was forward-thinking many years ago and always saved my brass because i knew that eventually some new liberal administration would enter office and turn the heat up on our hobby like back in '94. I even have brass for several calibers i don't even own anymore... [anybody need some .300 Savage or .30-30 brass?]

[TXGunNut]

45 Colt, 45-70, 45-90, to name a few. If I was to start loading today it wouldn't take long to "pay" for the hobby considering today's prices for these cartridges. Couldn't find good cast bullets so I got into casting. More investment, more "savings". I'm pretty good with numbers but I've given up on locating the "break-even" point. There are better reasons for handloading.
If saving gets you interested the other reasons will keep you going.

[MO. Shootin]

wolf small pistol primers at my local supply are $38 for 1000. It sounds like I need to shop around. They don't have any cci small pistol right now.

[Lost Sheep]

Davey,

Welcome to The Firing Line, to reloading and to gun owning.

I bought my first gun in 1975 in Arizona and my first reloading setup at the same time. I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload. I figured out pretty quick that reloaded ammo cost me about 1/4 of retail factory ammo (.357 Magnum).

A factor of 14:1 on the powder would be a disaster. Reloading ain't rocket science, as the saying goes, but there is a lot of flash and noise and the dangers are not to be taken lightly. Ask questions until everything makes sense. Read manuals (The ABC's of Reloading" is a good place to start.)

About costs. You have to keep and eye on the price levels. Last year, I bought 45 ACP from Wal-Mart (on sale) as cheaply as I could reload them myself. So, I stocked up, buying that retail ammo virtually as a source of brass.

I remember back in '75, the store owner who sold me my first reloading setup told me a story of another new reloader who came back to the store to buy some more brass. When the store owner asked what happened to the first batch of brass, he realized that the shooter did not know it was reusable. He spent the whole next day out in the desert trying to find where he had been shooting.

Remember, there is no such thing as a dumb question. Ask away. If you don't understand the answers, ask again.

You named two cartridges usually used in semi-automatics. I would recommend thinking about the fact that keeping your brass clean and not losing 15% of it after every range session is a lot easier with a revolver than wigh a semi. I shoot both, but find my .357 , 44 and 45 Colt a lot more fun because I don't have to crawl around in the gravel recovering my brass.

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

.45 Long Colt $36.48 a box (25 count) = $1.46 per shot.

Try the .500 Smith & Wesson. $3.25 per shot last time I checked. My shooting buddy reloads his for less than 75 cents. Of course, 22 rimfire is 6 cents apiece.


Take care, wear eye protection (especially when working with primers) and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

Lost Sheep

Remember, Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers).

This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and frequently hit "7" instead of "4" because the are next to each other on the keypad.