Scaled down Belgian or French Musket

Cannonman11 · September 22, 2016, 06:47 AM

I just acquired a scaled down version of the Model 42 French or Belgian musket. It is definitely under sized with a bore about .58 caliber wth a correct fitting angular bayonet. It appears to have been made for a boy but has all the features of its full scale counterpart.. Why would a musket like this be made and who would it have been made for? Any ideas?

jcj54 · September 22, 2016, 08:13 AM

For cadets in military school

gwpercle · September 22, 2016, 03:15 PM

And some are quite valuable....you need to I.D. it , could be worth more than the scaled up version.
Gary

Cannonman11 · September 23, 2016, 06:38 AM

What do you mean when you say ID? I believe it is Belgian and certainly 1840's to 1860's (Not sure how long Cadet muskets would have been used)
. What else is possible? It would be cool to find out additional info.
Post Note... Royal Military Academy in Brussels dates back to 1830's and was the only formal military school in Belgium in those early years.
There are no marks on the musket insofar as stampings, rack # or other that i can see. Lock plate is unmarked as are other Belgian muskets in my collection.

Another question.. Since academy entrants would have been young men in their upper teens and early 20's would they have used scaled down muskets? I think maybe this is, on second thought, a musket used in a smaller school that would feed into the academy as students advanced in age.

mapsjanhere · September 23, 2016, 10:46 AM

In the 19th century you became a page at 12 and entered cadet school at 14, so you were ready to go out into the regular army at 18 as an ensign.

T. O'Heir · September 23, 2016, 12:42 PM

"...made for a boy..." Is entirely possible.
"...no marks on the musket..." Indicates it wasn't a shooter. Possibly not 19th Century vintage at all. The Belgians were stamping proof marks long before 1840.
"...at 18 as an ensign..." That'd depend on what Army. Brits were still buying commissions until Prince Albert, Vickie's hubby, stopped the practice in 1871. Lot of very young Ensigns running around. Jimmy Wolf, for example, was commissioned Ensign at 15. Captain at 17. Full Colonel at 32.

Cannonman11 · September 24, 2016, 09:16 AM

Great information!! There is a belgian proof mark (circular) stamp on top of the breech that you typically find on all their muskets. Nothing on the lock plate but I have an Belgian 1822 flint that has none either and its in pretty good shape so I don't think it was buffed off. I think cadet version was made for a light load and blanks for sure. It has a nice bore and a nice ping when rammer hits bottom. You mention it was possibly not done in the 19th Century?? Here are some pics that show some features

IMG_0488.JPG

IMG_0489.JPG

IMG_0490.JPG

September 22, 2016, 06:47 AM	#1
Cannonman11 Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2016 Posts: 7	Scaled down Belgian or French Musket I just acquired a scaled down version of the Model 42 French or Belgian musket. It is definitely under sized with a bore about .58 caliber wth a correct fitting angular bayonet. It appears to have been made for a boy but has all the features of its full scale counterpart.. Why would a musket like this be made and who would it have been made for? Any ideas?

September 22, 2016, 08:13 AM	#2
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 219	Cadetmusket For cadets in military school

September 23, 2016, 06:38 AM	#4
Cannonman11 Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2016 Posts: 7	ID ?? What do you mean when you say ID? I believe it is Belgian and certainly 1840's to 1860's (Not sure how long Cadet muskets would have been used) . What else is possible? It would be cool to find out additional info. Post Note... Royal Military Academy in Brussels dates back to 1830's and was the only formal military school in Belgium in those early years. There are no marks on the musket insofar as stampings, rack # or other that i can see. Lock plate is unmarked as are other Belgian muskets in my collection. Another question.. Since academy entrants would have been young men in their upper teens and early 20's would they have used scaled down muskets? I think maybe this is, on second thought, a musket used in a smaller school that would feed into the academy as students advanced in age. Last edited by Cannonman11; September 23, 2016 at 07:01 AM.

September 23, 2016, 10:46 AM	#5
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	In the 19th century you became a page at 12 and entered cadet school at 14, so you were ready to go out into the regular army at 18 as an ensign. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

September 23, 2016, 12:42 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...made for a boy..." Is entirely possible. "...no marks on the musket..." Indicates it wasn't a shooter. Possibly not 19th Century vintage at all. The Belgians were stamping proof marks long before 1840. "...at 18 as an ensign..." That'd depend on what Army. Brits were still buying commissions until Prince Albert, Vickie's hubby, stopped the practice in 1871. Lot of very young Ensigns running around. Jimmy Wolf, for example, was commissioned Ensign at 15. Captain at 17. Full Colonel at 32. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 22, 2016, 03:15 PM	#3
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	And some are quite valuable....you need to I.D. it , could be worth more than the scaled up version. Gary

September 24, 2016, 09:16 AM	#7
Cannonman11 Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2016 Posts: 7	Bill Great information!! There is a belgian proof mark (circular) stamp on top of the breech that you typically find on all their muskets. Nothing on the lock plate but I have an Belgian 1822 flint that has none either and its in pretty good shape so I don't think it was buffed off. I think cadet version was made for a light load and blanks for sure. It has a nice bore and a nice ping when rammer hits bottom. You mention it was possibly not done in the 19th Century?? Here are some pics that show some features IMG_0488.JPG IMG_0489.JPG IMG_0490.JPG Last edited by Cannonman11; September 24, 2016 at 11:38 AM. Reason: adding additional information