Ambiguous CQC scenario.

LiveWire · October 7, 2002, 07:24 PM

You're legally armed with your CCW. You're walking on a lonely sidewalk in downtown Houston, and happen to be passing an alley when you hear what sounds like scuffling.

You turn to the alley and see, at very close range, one man taking aim with a handgun at another who, picking himself up, now lunges at the first, empty-handed.

You are standing in the 1 o'clock position relative to the armed man. The unarmed man is at his noon. For a moment, you have a clean line-of-sight on either one.

Someone is going to get hurt within the next two and a half seconds. What do you do?

Mannlicher · October 7, 2002, 08:31 PM

"Someone is going to get hurt within the next two and a half seconds. What do you do?"

Keep on walking, and maybe even pick up the pace a wee bit. That someone ain't gonna be me. In fact I would not be in that part of town walking anyway. I don't carry a gun to be a cop.

old_yout · October 7, 2002, 09:19 PM

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree. I'm not going to jump to conclusions before I have all the facts at my fingertips. In this case I'll quote Rick from Casablanca: "I stick my neck out for nobody."

Hard Ball · October 7, 2002, 09:26 PM

Since I have no way of telling who is the attacker and who is the victim it would be foolish of me to intervene.

richhelton84 · October 7, 2002, 09:53 PM

Run away.

Rich

woodland · October 7, 2002, 10:28 PM

Definatly want to steer clear of that one. You have no way to know who is good guy or bad guy. Or could be both bad guys. I would quickly note whatever details I could, as I made haste to not be there, and get into the nearest business, and call 911. Maybe look out a window to see if any one came out of the ally and got into a vehicle, or which way they went.

Christopher II · October 8, 2002, 11:03 AM

What? You mean that you people wouldn't be able to instantly identify the bad guy and deliver two lightning-fast bullets to his cranial-ocular region? What kind of ninja death commandos are you?

Exit the scene, quick-like.

- Chris

M1911 · October 8, 2002, 11:33 AM

I agree, run away. You have no idea what is going on. Is it a mobster about to put a hit on another mobster? A scumbag robbing a store owner? Or an undercover cop trying to arrest a suspect? You've got no way of knowing. And you're not a cop. Beat feet and call 911.

M1911

Gomez · October 8, 2002, 03:25 PM

CelPhones are wonderful little gadgets. They even work when I'm done sprinting away and out of breath. Get away. Make the call.

LASur5r · October 8, 2002, 08:39 PM

In the scenario that you gave?
Get ready for the guy with the gun to get you under his sights because he is about to shoot the unarmed guy and if he is a BG, you could be next as a witness to the crime.

Get your CCW ready as you find good cover and hopefully you can keep an eye on the guy with the gun because you just might end up as a witness to the shooting.

pbarrick · October 9, 2002, 09:09 AM

Leave the area quick and make the call to report it to the police. I wouldn't bother monitoring the scene given that I can't predict where stray rounds may fly.

Double Naught Spy · October 9, 2002, 02:50 PM

Is it not interesting that the same basic correct answer, get the hell out of Dodge ASAP and notify the authorities, is the same answer regardless of whether you were carrying or not?

Having guns is a great thing, but there is a bottomline concern that many gun folks don't pay much lip service to because they are so well armed with various blasters. Simply put, whether you have a gun or not, a crucial part of any conflict is to NOT GET INJURED OR KILLED. It does not matter that if in a battle you manage to fatally wound the bad guy if he manages to do the same to you. In a winning good guy story, LAPD's Officer Stacy Lim was officer of the year in 1992 for surviving a gun battle in 1990. Off duty, she was approached by a guy who did not know she was an officer and was going to steal her car. He shot her once in the chest with a .357 mag, hitting and damaging her heart. Lim was able to give chase and killed her attacker with 9 hits. She radioed for help and was found dead by paramedics. She was revived several times and eventually recovered. The bad guy fired first and delivered a lethal hit that brought on incapacitation fairly quickly, but not quickly enough. He should have run away before the shooting.

October 7, 2002, 07:24 PM	#1
LiveWire Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 281	Ambiguous CQC scenario. You're legally armed with your CCW. You're walking on a lonely sidewalk in downtown Houston, and happen to be passing an alley when you hear what sounds like scuffling. You turn to the alley and see, at very close range, one man taking aim with a handgun at another who, picking himself up, now lunges at the first, empty-handed. You are standing in the 1 o'clock position relative to the armed man. The unarmed man is at his noon. For a moment, you have a clean line-of-sight on either one. Someone is going to get hurt within the next two and a half seconds. What do you do?

October 7, 2002, 08:31 PM	#2
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	"Someone is going to get hurt within the next two and a half seconds. What do you do?" Keep on walking, and maybe even pick up the pace a wee bit. That someone ain't gonna be me. In fact I would not be in that part of town walking anyway. I don't carry a gun to be a cop. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

October 7, 2002, 09:19 PM	#3
old_yout Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: somewhere in the sunny southeast Posts: 349	I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree. I'm not going to jump to conclusions before I have all the facts at my fingertips. In this case I'll quote Rick from Casablanca: "I stick my neck out for nobody." __________________ You can't unring a bell. __________________ Smile, darn ya, smile

October 7, 2002, 09:26 PM	#4
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Since I have no way of telling who is the attacker and who is the victim it would be foolish of me to intervene. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

October 7, 2002, 10:28 PM	#6
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	Definatly want to steer clear of that one. You have no way to know who is good guy or bad guy. Or could be both bad guys. I would quickly note whatever details I could, as I made haste to not be there, and get into the nearest business, and call 911. Maybe look out a window to see if any one came out of the ally and got into a vehicle, or which way they went. __________________ "There is no spoon..."

October 7, 2002, 09:53 PM	#5
richhelton84 Member Join Date: September 28, 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 42	Run away. Rich

October 8, 2002, 11:03 AM	#7
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	What? You mean that you people wouldn't be able to instantly identify the bad guy and deliver two lightning-fast bullets to his cranial-ocular region? What kind of ninja death commandos are you? Exit the scene, quick-like. - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

October 8, 2002, 11:33 AM	#8
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	I agree, run away. You have no idea what is going on. Is it a mobster about to put a hit on another mobster? A scumbag robbing a store owner? Or an undercover cop trying to arrest a suspect? You've got no way of knowing. And you're not a cop. Beat feet and call 911. M1911

October 8, 2002, 03:25 PM	#9
Gomez Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 297	CelPhones are wonderful little gadgets. They even work when I'm done sprinting away and out of breath. Get away. Make the call. __________________ "Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it." --Kruger & Dunning

October 8, 2002, 08:39 PM	#10
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Get ready In the scenario that you gave? Get ready for the guy with the gun to get you under his sights because he is about to shoot the unarmed guy and if he is a BG, you could be next as a witness to the crime. Get your CCW ready as you find good cover and hopefully you can keep an eye on the guy with the gun because you just might end up as a witness to the shooting.

October 9, 2002, 09:09 AM	#11
pbarrick Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 72	Leave the area quick and make the call to report it to the police. I wouldn't bother monitoring the scene given that I can't predict where stray rounds may fly. __________________ Paul Barrick Instructor, OPS HQ Options for Personal Security Cutting Edge Training Across the U.S.A. http://www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com Toll Free 1.877.636.4677

October 9, 2002, 02:50 PM	#12
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Is it not interesting that the same basic correct answer, get the hell out of Dodge ASAP and notify the authorities, is the same answer regardless of whether you were carrying or not? Having guns is a great thing, but there is a bottomline concern that many gun folks don't pay much lip service to because they are so well armed with various blasters. Simply put, whether you have a gun or not, a crucial part of any conflict is to NOT GET INJURED OR KILLED. It does not matter that if in a battle you manage to fatally wound the bad guy if he manages to do the same to you. In a winning good guy story, LAPD's Officer Stacy Lim was officer of the year in 1992 for surviving a gun battle in 1990. Off duty, she was approached by a guy who did not know she was an officer and was going to steal her car. He shot her once in the chest with a .357 mag, hitting and damaging her heart. Lim was able to give chase and killed her attacker with 9 hits. She radioed for help and was found dead by paramedics. She was revived several times and eventually recovered. The bad guy fired first and delivered a lethal hit that brought on incapacitation fairly quickly, but not quickly enough. He should have run away before the shooting. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange