Out of state firearm transfer/purchase

[skyking90]

I have a question about a Remmington 870 I purchased;

About two months ago I was up in Alaska visiting some friends for the week and had purchased a shotgun to use while I was up there. The reason for the purchase was my belief that I would be living up there by now for a job I thought I was going to take and I would just retrieve my shotgun then when I officially moved up there and got my own place..

When I returned home to the midwest a week later I received a better job offer and am no longer going to move to Alaska. However, my friend said he would purchase the gun off of me and we could transfer my name from the gun to his.
The problem arose when I started researching all this and transferring weapons and to me it looks like it isnt possible from one state to another? only in state..?

If I am correct on that, then is it a different circumstance since the gun is still at his house and all we would have to do is transfer the name over and pay the $?

If the transfer is not possible at all I will just have him ship the gun to me and I will keep it, but since he wants it I am just trying to figure out the best action.

Any help with this issue would be appreciated!

Thanks

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by skyking90

About two months ago I was up in Alaska visiting some friends for the week... The reason for the purchase was my belief that I would be living up there... When I returned home to the midwest a week later I received a better job offer and am no longer going to move to Alaska. However, my friend said he would purchase the gun off of me... the gun is still at his house...

I think this hinges on whether you were lawfully a resident of AK when you lent the shotgun to your friend. It sounds like you weren't, but the story is complicated enough that I'm a bit unclear on this point.

When you purchased the gun, did you use an ID and address from AK, or from the unnamed Midwestern state?

FWIW here's the definition of "residence" according to federal law, 27 CFR § 478.11 specifically, my emphasis underlined:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.
A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.
A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.
A, an alien, travels to the United States on a three-week vacation to State X. A does not have a state of residence in State X because A does not have the intention of making a home in State X while on vacation. This is true regardless of the length of the vacation.

Example 4.
A, an alien, travels to the United States to work for three years in State X. A rents a home in State X, moves his personal possessions into the home, and his family resides with him in the home. A intends to reside in State X during the 3-year period of his employment. A is a resident of State X.

[Tom Servo]

The problem arose when I started researching all this and transferring weapons and to me it looks like it isnt possible from one state to another? only in state..?

In this case, it will be transferred from the resident of one state to the resident of another. As such, it requires the intercession of a licensed dealer.

Even though it never left the state. Yeah, it's silly. I would contact a dealer in Alaska and ask how they'd like to proceed.

When you purchased the gun, did you use an ID and address from AK, or from the unnamed Midwestern state?

For the purpose of the initial purchase, it's legal so long as it's not a handgun. Had the OP taken the gun home with him, he'd be required to ship it to a dealer in Alaska.

[Frank Ettin]

I'm afraid that you have a major and complicated problem. The transfer of possession of a gun by a resident of one State to a resident of another is heavily regulated under federal law.

The federal laws relating to the transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another are about mere physical possession, not just ownership.

Giving someone your gun to store for you will be considered a transfer. It certainly is under federal law, and would also most likely be also considered a transfer under state laws. That's just what "transfer" means.

1. Possession means:

   1 a : the act of having or taking into control...

2. Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):
   
   
   • http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/transfer:

     ...Transfer encompasses the sale and every other method, direct or indirect, of (1) disposing of property or an interest therein or possession thereof;...

   • http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transferred:

     2. Law To make over the possession or legal title of; convey.

   • http://law.yourdictionary.com/transfer:

     Any and every method of removing something from one person or place to another; specifically, the handing over of possession or control of assets or title. ...

   
   
3. If you give possession of your gun for storage to someone who is a resident of the same State as you, it's an intrastate transfer and subject to applicable state law.
   
   
   1. In many States private transfers between residents are lawful without formalities.
      
      
   2. However, in some States private transfers require that certain hoops be jumped through.
   
   
4. However, if you are not a resident of the same State as the person you leave your gun with, it becomes an interstate transfer and subject to federal law.
   
   
   1. Let's look at the statutes:
      
      
      1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         (a) It shall be unlawful—
         ...
         
         (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

      2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         (a) It shall be unlawful—
         ...
         
         (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

      
      
   2. Note carefully the words used in those statutes. Words like "transport", "receive", "transfer", "give", and "deliver" are all words that describe possession, not just ownership.
      
      
   3. Violation of the federal interstate transfer laws can get the transferor and transferee up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).

So the first problem was the OP, a resident of State B, leaving his gun behind in State A with a resident of State A. That was a transfer [of possession] of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another.

Now the OP is in kind of a pickle. If he wants the gun back, the best way to arrange that legally would be for his friend in Alaska to ship the gun to a cooperating FFL in the OP's state of residence and have the gun formally transferred.

That's cumbersome and seems silly, but I really don't see any other way. Among other things, it would be a violation of federal law for the OP's Alaskan friend to ship the gun directly to the OP in a different State.

[skyking90]

Frank, so technically what needs to be done is either what you replied with as to have him ship the gun to an FFL and have the gun transferred there, or I guess I could end up keeping the gun by going back there and bringing back the gun with me?

That is the only last option I see. Wish I would have known the whole possession issue wasnt such a large problem as I would have simply just brought it back with me...

How much does a FFL transfer cost?

[Frank Ettin]

First, understand that at this point there's no good answer. The least bad answer is to have your friend ship the gun to an FFL local to you to do the transfer. What an FFL will charge will be up to him. So you might want to shop around.

For information on shipping see here.

[Doyle]

I don't think the gun has to be "shipped" anywhere. If I understand the OP's question, it is already in the possession of the intended buyer (in AK). If that is indeed the case, it is only a matter making arrangments with an FFL that is nearby to that friend and letting him do the transfer.

[guruatbol]

All good advise. I would still contact a dealer in Alaska.

I would ask them if they can do a sale to your friend. Even if they as a dealer buy it from on paper and sell it to your friend in order to clean up the paper.

Going by the letter of the law is sometimes an issue. I am not advocating anything else, but a local dealer may and in all likelihood be able to assist you greatly.

Mel

[Tom Servo]

If that is indeed the case, it is only a matter making arrangments with an FFL that is nearby to that friend and letting him do the transfer.

Right, but who transfers it to the FFL? That needs to be the OP.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Right, but who transfers it to the FFL? That needs to be the OP.

Exactly. That is one of the wrinkles that complicates this type of situation. The gun must be received by the FFL from the transferor, i. e., the OP.

[Doyle]

Exactly. That is one of the wrinkles that complicates this type of situation. The gun must be received by the FFL from the transferor, i. e., the OP.

Can't the gun be transferred to the FFL by an agent?

[skyking90]

Wish this was much easier, looks like a may be taking another vacation up there and grabbing my gun or possibly having my friend ship the gun to a ffl down here in the midwest.. which doesnt seem to be quite legal


Anyways, thanks for the help here everyone. I hope no one else runs into an issue like this!

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Doyle

Can't the gun be transferred to the FFL by an agent?

And how would an agent lawfully get possession of the gun to deliver it to the FFL for transfer?

As I mentioned earlier, there are no good answers. We started out in a hole with no really clear, good way out.

In any case, it looks like the OP knows the score and should be able to work things out from here. And further discussion might well just make things worse. So I'm going to close this off now.