I'm curious about mixing Martial Arts with Guns.

[Rojack79]

Like have there been any Martial Arts that focused on say kicks but incorporated drawing your gun and either backing off or taking aim and firing. I'm mostly curious if there's a way for me to incorporate my pistol into my Kick Boxing and Taekwondo routines, possibly even my Boxing practice at home as well.

[JohnKSa]

Generally, when you're using your gun, you want to keep your hands and feet close to your body (behind the muzzle) to prevent you from shooting yourself.

It sounds comical, but there was an incident awhile back where a guy ended up shooting himself in the hand during a defensive encounter. He was trying to hold the guy back and shoot at the same time and it didn't work out so well.

The most common technique I've seen for trying to keep someone back is to keep the gun relatively low and very close to the body in the strong hand, with the body bladed slightly away from the attacker and using the weak hand/arm held very high to hold the attacker back, fend off an overhand blow or push him away. The idea is that with the gun held/aimed low and the weak hand held quite high, there's lower risk of a bullet and the weak hand occupying the same space at the same time.

Obviously this is only for use in very close quarters since the gun can't be aimed very effectively. But then, one wouldn't need to push someone away or fend off a blow from an attacker unless they were very close.

It's important to keep from jamming the slide against clothing which could foul it and cause a malfunctions.

It's also important to keep in mind that a magnum revolver, used in this way, could cause some significant injury to the shooter from the high-speed gases exiting at the barrel/cylinder gap.


Here are some examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s8t_5VT06M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjU_5BRAO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqNnZKA3s3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4KDXXTMnU

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Generally, when you're using your gun, you want to keep your hands and feet close to your body (behind the muzzle) to prevent you from shooting yourself.

It sounds comical, but there was an incident awhile back where a guy ended up shooting himself in the hand during a defensive encounter. He was trying to hold the guy back and shoot at the same time and it didn't work out so well.

The most common technique I've seen for trying to keep someone back is to keep the gun relatively low and very close to the body in the strong hand, with the body bladed slightly away from the attacker and using the weak hand/arm held very high to hold the attacker back, fend off an overhand blow or push him away. The idea is that with the gun held/aimed low and the weak hand held quite high, there's lower risk of a bullet and the weak hand occupying the same space at the same time.

Obviously this is only for use in very close quarters since the gun can't be aimed very effectively. But then, one wouldn't need to push someone away or fend off a blow from an attacker unless they were very close.

It's important to keep from jamming the slide against clothing which could foul it and cause a malfunctions.

It's also important to keep in mind that a magnum revolver, used in this way, could cause some significant injury to the shooter from the high-speed gases exiting at the barrel/cylinder gap.


Here are some examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s8t_5VT06M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjU_5BRAO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqNnZKA3s3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4KDXXTMnU

Awesome, thank you for the information and links, I'll get right on looking them over.

If I'm being honest I'd like to think about using my Martial Arts more to create space so I can pull out my gun, rather than like throwing a punch and shooting someone at the same time. I do know that close range shooting is a good skill to learn but like you said it's gotta be done carefully so as to not shoot yourself as well. Hmm..

[HiBC]

Get a plastic dummy gun.

That way you don't pull a Baldwin.

Maybe a couple years ago there was an FBI agent at a whiskey bar in Denver,in the late hours. He began showing off on the dance floor. Doing flips. While he was inverted mid flip,it became apparent his holster retention was inadequate.
The gun hit the floor. It did not fire.(Good Gun!) But it embarrassed him so he wanted to pick it up real quick. Our Hero picked it up by putting his thumb on the backstrap and his finger on the trigger. Son of a gun! It fired!! One of the customers was shot and badly wounded.
Our FBI Agent immediately disappeared,leaving the crowd to deal with the gunshot wound.

I was not there. Video was posted, so I cannot say if he was drinking whiskey at the whiskey bar before doing flips and dropping his gun then clumsily pulling the trigger and shooting an innocent person. I would not have thought FBI agents get drunk and do things like that. Who knows?

But holster retention is a good thing.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by HiBC

Get a plastic dummy gun.

That way you don't pull a Baldwin.

Maybe a couple years ago there was an FBI agent at a whiskey bar in Denver,in the late hours. He began showing off on the dance floor. Doing flips. While he was inverted mid flip,it became apparent his holster retention was inadequate.
The gun hit the floor. It did not fire.(Good Gun!) But it embarrassed him so he wanted to pick it up real quick. Our Hero picked it up by putting his thumb on the backstrap and his finger on the trigger. Son of a gun! It fired!! One of the customers was shot and badly wounded.
Our FBI Agent immediately disappeared,leaving the crowd to deal with the gunshot wound.

I was not there. Video was posted, so I cannot say if he was drinking whiskey at the whiskey bar before doing flips and dropping his gun then clumsily pulling the trigger and shooting an innocent person. I would not have thought FBI agents get drunk and do things like that. Who knows?

But holster retention is a good thing.

Oof, yeah I'll definitely be practicing with a plastic dummy gun first and foremost. Or at the very least my gun will be completely unloaded when I'm practicing here at home. Definitely don't want to pull a Baldwin and I never mix alcohol and guns. It never ends well. Thankfully I'm getting a holster for my Canik soon and it's pretty good from what I've read and seen.

[ghbucky]

Or at the very least my gun will be completely unloaded when I'm practicing here at home.

Might be a good time to review the four rules of gun safety, with a focus this one:

"Every gun is always loaded"

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

Might be a good time to review the four rules of gun safety, with a focus this one:

"Every gun is always loaded"

Yes, but I'm going to be practicing here at my house where only I live thankfully. No one else to be within the firing line or anything bad. And again I'm not loading my guns up with any bullets until I'm ready to go out and about.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

Might be a good time to review the four rules of gun safety, with a focus this one:

"Every gun is always loaded"

But every gun isn’t always loaded. If it was then my dryfire sessions would become much more problematic. The way I have seen that rule interpreted in a different way is that you should know the status of all firearms being handled. Even when I handle a firearm I confirmed was clear, I still am mindful of my muzzle and what is in the direction I am pointing.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

But every gun isn’t always loaded. If it was then my dryfire sessions would become much more problematic. The way I have seen that rule interpreted in a different way is that you should know the status of all firearms being handled. Even when I handle a firearm I confirmed was clear, I still am mindful of my muzzle and what is in the direction I am pointing.

Mhm that's exactly how I see it as well. If we were to take it to it's logical conclusion then we shouldn't be doing dry firing practices in our own house.

[HiBC]

Years ago I used to fence.
Some practice can be done solo. A great point control drill was hanging a tennis ball on a string of rubber bands and boinking it around thrusting a foil or epée.

But at some point,its not the same without an opponent doing their best to beat you. I got better as my opponents developed new tricks and techniques to capitalize on my weaknesses.

The concern is getting to a point where you are doing force on force with a real firearm. Thats the path to pulling a Baldwin.

You are OK if you get a "blue gun" Its not a gun. It just looks like one.

You might even go airsoft. (Eye protection) But have all firearms in the safe.

[ghbucky]

Mhm that's exactly how I see it as well. If we were to take it to it's logical conclusion then we shouldn't be doing dry firing practices in our own house.

You can dry fire practice while still adhering to all 4 rules. You just make sure the gun is pointed at something you are willing to destroy. Literally.

I point the gun out a casement window at a hillside behind my house. Because a window would be relatively easy to replace and there is a safe backstop.

If you decide to throw out the rest of the rules because you cleared the gun, then you only have to make a mistake once...

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

You can dry fire practice while still adhering to all 4 rules. You just make sure the gun is pointed at something you are willing to destroy. Literally.

I point the gun out a casement window at a hillside behind my house. Because a window would be relatively easy to replace and there is a safe backstop.

If you decide to throw out the rest of the rules because you cleared the gun, then you only have to make a mistake once...

Here's the thing, I'm not an amateur when it comes to guns or gun safety, I've been practicing with them for nearly 15 years now. I'm not saying I can't make a mistake or that I'm perfect, I'm saying that I know the rules, and I follow them to the latter because it's been ingrained into me thanks to year's of training. Me training with my firearm at home isn't me throwing out the rules. And I always, always make sure my weapon's are unloaded, because I'm a responsible gun owner. Otherwise I literally wouldn't have them if I didn't trust myself to own them.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by HiBC

Years ago I used to fence.
Some practice can be done solo. A great point control drill was hanging a tennis ball on a string of rubber bands and boinking it around thrusting a foil or epée.

But at some point,its not the same without an opponent doing their best to beat you. I got better as my opponents developed new tricks and techniques to capitalize on my weaknesses.

The concern is getting to a point where you are doing force on force with a real firearm. Thats the path to pulling a Baldwin.

You are OK if you get a "blue gun" Its not a gun. It just looks like one.

You might even go airsoft. (Eye protection) But have all firearms in the safe.

I have to admit it's been awhile since I last spared, but I still remember and train like I used too. Granted I've still got my practice swords and like to dust them off from time to time, I need to see about hitting a gym though or just using my house as one. And it doesn't matter what kinda training I'm looking for, I'm not pulling out a real gun in a force on force training simulation. I'll go and grab a fake gun really quick. For now I don't have a sparring partner though, so I'm just thinking of going through my usual workout routine just incorporating my empty gun into the mix while I'm at home and alone with everything being safe.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Rojack79

I have to admit it's been awhile since I last spared, but I still remember and train like I used too. Granted I've still got my practice swords and like to dust them off from time to time, I need to see about hitting a gym though or just using my house as one. And it doesn't matter what kinda training I'm looking for, I'm not pulling out a real gun in a force on force training simulation. I'll go and grab a fake gun really quick. For now I don't have a sparring partner though, so I'm just thinking of going through my usual workout routine just incorporating my empty gun into the mix while I'm at home and alone with everything being safe.

No.

Not just "No," but "HELL, NO!"

There is an old saying: "Familiarity breeds contempt." The short version of one of the primary rules of firearms safety is "All guns are loaded." But we know that's a lie. The correct way to express that rule is, "Treat all guns as if they are loaded." If you depart from that rule, sooner or later you will become complacent, you will have a bad day, and you will shoot something (or someone) you didn't want or intend to shoot.

There are documented cases of police firearms instructors who shot students because they forgot that their firearm was a real gun, and was loaded.

There is NO room for error with this. Blue guns aren't that expensive. If that's not realistic enough for you, buy a cheap real gun, disable it mechanically so that it CANNOT fire (remove the firing pin, plug the barrel, or both), paint it red so you will always know which is the training prop -- do not use a real firearm for sparring exercises,

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

No.

Not just "No," but "HELL, NO!"

There is an old saying: "Familiarity breeds contempt." The short version of one of the primary rules of firearms safety is "All guns are loaded." But we know that's a lie. The correct way to express that rule is, "Treat all guns as if they are loaded." If you depart from that rule, sooner or later you will become complacent, you will have a bad day, and you will shoot something (or someone) you didn't want or intend to shoot.

There are documented cases of police firearms instructors who shot students because they forgot that their firearm was a real gun, and was loaded.

There is NO room for error with this. Blue guns aren't that expensive. If that's not realistic enough for you, buy a cheap real gun, disable it mechanically so that it CANNOT fire (remove the firing pin, plug the barrel, or both), paint it red so you will always know which is the training prop -- do not use a real firearm for sparring exercises,

Ok tell me this, how is this any different from doing dry fire training at home? For clarification, I am not sparring with anyone else, so I am not pointing my gun at anyone else. I am simply practicing my martial arts skills to keep them in shape, and I am incorporating my pistol into that routine, practicing dry firing with it in conjunction with my martial arts.

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Rojack79

Like have there been any Martial Arts that focused on say kicks but incorporated drawing your gun and either backing off or taking aim and firing. I'm mostly curious if there's a way for me to incorporate my pistol into my Kick Boxing and Taekwondo routines, possibly even my Boxing practice at home as well.

I think this migh be a good idea that needs looking into .
Call this new form of martial Arts ... Twaekwongun or Twaegundo !

I'm having to walk with a cane now while my broken leg heals .
I like having the cane ... you can hit hard with this thing and am thinking a new Martial Arts with older people and cane's ... Twaekwanedo ... would be something I would sign up for .
As far as I know canes aren't restricted and you could knock heck out of someone with a heavy hanbled cane .
Gary

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

I think this migh be a good idea that needs looking into .
Call this new form of martial Arts ... Twaekwongun or Twaegundo !

I'm having to walk with a cane now while my broken leg heals .
I like having the cane ... you can hit hard with this thing and am thinking a new Martial Arts with older people and cane's ... Twaekwanedo ... would be something I would sign up for .
As far as I know canes aren't restricted and you could knock heck out of someone with a heavy hanbled cane .
Gary

I'm not entirely sure but if I remember correctly I do believe there was, at least possibly in the middle ages, a fighting manual that had cane sparing in it. That might be worth a look honestly.

[ghbucky]

I like having the cane ... you can hit hard with this thing and am thinking a new Martial Arts with older people and cane's ... Twaekwanedo ... would be something I would sign up for .
As far as I know canes aren't restricted and you could knock heck out of someone with a heavy hanbled cane .

This rang a bell, and sure enough:

https://mmawhisperer.com/martial-arts/bartitsu/

[Rojack79]

Wow that's actually pretty cool, it combines Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo and Jiu Jujutsu, all with a cane.

[AL45]

It would bring a whole new meaning to the old 70's song, "Everbody was Kung Fu Fighting."

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by AL45

It would bring a whole new meaning to the old 70's song, "Everbody was Kung Fu Fighting."

Lol true. Although now I'm even more curious about what I could do with my own knowledge. I know they have certain martial arts systems that activity use firearms such as Krav Maga and Systema but I unfortunately don't know those. So I'm just going to have to take what I do know, Taekwondo, Boxing, and Kickboxing and see if I could even mesh those three together myself.

[Aguila Blanca]

Watch some John Wick movies

[shafter]

I'd go so far as to say that if you aren't incorporating striking and grappling into your training your defense plan is sorely lacking.

The term is called integrated combatives and it focuses heavily on weapons retention, the premise that many gunfights begin as fist fights, and your gun either going click or disabled or disarmed. The focus is on being able to transition from empty hands to a firearm and vice versa and being able to strike, grapple, fight your way to your feet etc.

Basically you need proficiency in firearms, blades, improvised weapons, striking, and grappling with a strong emphasis on situational awareness and avoidance.

There are a few who teach it at a very high level but they aren't cheap and their classes fill fast.

https://www.amtacshooting.com/upcoming-courses/

https://defoor-proformance-shooting....ollections/all

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Watch some John Wick movies

I have seen and own all of them except for Chapter 4.

[Rojack79]

Originally Posted by shafter

I'd go so far as to say that if you aren't incorporating striking and grappling into your training your defense plan is sorely lacking.

The term is called integrated combatives and it focuses heavily on weapons retention, the premise that many gunfights begin as fist fights, and your gun either going click or disabled or disarmed. The focus is on being able to transition from empty hands to a firearm and vice versa and being able to strike, grapple, fight your way to your feet etc.

Basically you need proficiency in firearms, blades, improvised weapons, striking, and grappling with a strong emphasis on situational awareness and avoidance.

There are a few who teach it at a very high level but they aren't cheap and their classes fill fast.

https://www.amtacshooting.com/upcoming-courses/

https://defoor-proformance-shooting....ollections/all

Yes! This is what I'm talking about, this is what I'm hoping to achieve by incorporating my pistol into my Martial Arts. Now I do have training in firearms, blades, and Striking, as well as Situational awareness and avoidance. I do not however have the same training in Improvised weapons or grappling sadly. If I could get to a class like what you've posted I'd definitely do it ASAP. Thank you for your help and the link's.