Can you ID this top break?

Ignacio49 · February 17, 2010, 10:36 PM

Hello,

A friend of mine has this top break. Bad condition, no visible letters/marks.

Can you help me identify it?

Thanks

Willie Lowman · February 18, 2010, 06:47 AM

Looks like the old Iver Johnson .32 I have. Mine has a transfer bar in it instead of a fixed firing pin.

Junk gun. I wouldn't trust it to hit the broad side of a barn if I was standing inside it. Throw it away.

mete · February 18, 2010, 08:24 AM

There were many cheap top breaks made mostly in 32 cal. Not worth anything and not very safe ! That flower on the grip may identify the brand.

Magnum Wheel Man · February 18, 2010, 08:31 AM

there were really only 4-5 manufacturers of as many as 10 or 20 different brands or trade names... I begain collecting these about 6 months ago, & have learned alot along the way...

could be a Hopkins & Allen built, Forehand / Forehand & Wadsworth, Iver Johnson, or earlier Harrington & Richardson built gun, or a handfull of other earlier companys that either went out of business shortly afterwards, or were obsorbed by one of the previosly listed companies... there were also some foriegn made guns ( like from Spain ), but most of those replicas, may not have been as early as this gun appears to be...

I've found the latch, & the cylinder retaining system to be the easiest clues for me to identify the maker... I think from your pics, I could eliminate the H&R, as I have a gun of similar age from them, & my latch is slightly different... but I can't see clearly enough how the cylinder is retained to go much further...

if the cylinder has a set of threads at the front side, that allow you to turn the cylinder counter clockwise while lifting slightly to engage the threads, to remove the cylinder, then the gun was likely built by Iver Johnson, if it has any other type of cylinder retention, that eliminates Iver Johnson... hope this helps some...

EDITED...

although, as I study the pics, it could be a spanish built gun... the hammer is unusually light, & the trigger gaurd on most of the american guns were blued on nickel guns of this era, & it is also unusual for the trigger guard to have the exposed front screw, although, I have one that does, but can't remember off the top of my head which gun...

Ignacio49 · February 18, 2010, 07:23 PM

Magnum Wheel Man:

Some more pics that I hope will help.

The front side of the cylinder is flat. The cylinder rotates freely in both directions (maybe is a malfunction), except when trigger is cocked (and it shows its wear, it has a lot of play).
There is a pawl that pushes the ratchet to rotate the cylinder and another pawl to stop it when lined with the barrel (can see both in pic 4)
The side of the cylinder facing the hammer has a mark: three letters in an oval, E (not sure if it is an "E") over LG. There is a crown above the oval (pic 3).

Ignacio49 · February 18, 2010, 08:01 PM

UPDATE:

I have found that the mark in the cylinder (pic 3) is a LIEGE proof house mark (see https://bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

Could this be a Belgian or British gun?

Hoss Fly · February 18, 2010, 08:16 PM

The only thing i can tell you is it's NOT a S&W

Which pretty much means its a paper weight/wall hanger thats not really worth the oil or elbow grease to make it look better & SURE not a shooter -
Sorry but just my semi-experinced but totally honest answer

Ignacio49 · February 18, 2010, 08:28 PM

Sure Hoss Fly, agree with you.
I am not asking expecting a hidden treasure. It is just curiosity and the investigation activity which I find interesting.

Scorch · February 18, 2010, 08:31 PM

Belgian firearms manufacturers copied virtually every firearm ever made. Many were made of poor materials, many were made of high quality materials. Without knowing exactly who made your revolver, assume it is made from cheap materials. Yours appears to be fairly well made, but it is not possible to judge metallurgy by outward appearances. Since the manufacturer did not put their name on the piece, it was likely an inexpensive trade gun. Put it on a shelf or in a shadow box, look at it every now and again and smile.

Ignacio49 · February 18, 2010, 09:07 PM

Scorch: "Put it on a shelf or in a shadow box, look at it every now and again and smile"

Scorch, I will!!

Onward Allusion · February 18, 2010, 10:33 PM

It is not - S&W, Iver Johnson, H&R, Hopkins & Allen, or US Revolver. From the proof on the cylinder it looks like a Spanish copy. What ever you do, don't shoot modern ammo with it.

mete · February 19, 2010, 05:30 AM

With that proof mark it's probably made in Liege Belgium. That's been a major gun center for a very long time. The 'Belgian' Brownings were made there and many others such as the present FN guns .

February 17, 2010, 10:36 PM	#1
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Can you ID this top break? Hello, A friend of mine has this top break. Bad condition, no visible letters/marks. Can you help me identify it? Thanks

February 18, 2010, 08:31 AM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	there were really only 4-5 manufacturers of as many as 10 or 20 different brands or trade names... I begain collecting these about 6 months ago, & have learned alot along the way... could be a Hopkins & Allen built, Forehand / Forehand & Wadsworth, Iver Johnson, or earlier Harrington & Richardson built gun, or a handfull of other earlier companys that either went out of business shortly afterwards, or were obsorbed by one of the previosly listed companies... there were also some foriegn made guns ( like from Spain ), but most of those replicas, may not have been as early as this gun appears to be... I've found the latch, & the cylinder retaining system to be the easiest clues for me to identify the maker... I think from your pics, I could eliminate the H&R, as I have a gun of similar age from them, & my latch is slightly different... but I can't see clearly enough how the cylinder is retained to go much further... if the cylinder has a set of threads at the front side, that allow you to turn the cylinder counter clockwise while lifting slightly to engage the threads, to remove the cylinder, then the gun was likely built by Iver Johnson, if it has any other type of cylinder retention, that eliminates Iver Johnson... hope this helps some... EDITED... although, as I study the pics, it could be a spanish built gun... the hammer is unusually light, & the trigger gaurd on most of the american guns were blued on nickel guns of this era, & it is also unusual for the trigger guard to have the exposed front screw, although, I have one that does, but can't remember off the top of my head which gun... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; February 18, 2010 at 08:45 AM.

February 18, 2010, 07:23 PM	#5
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Magnum Wheel Man: Some more pics that I hope will help. The front side of the cylinder is flat. The cylinder rotates freely in both directions (maybe is a malfunction), except when trigger is cocked (and it shows its wear, it has a lot of play). There is a pawl that pushes the ratchet to rotate the cylinder and another pawl to stop it when lined with the barrel (can see both in pic 4) The side of the cylinder facing the hammer has a mark: three letters in an oval, E (not sure if it is an "E") over LG. There is a crown above the oval (pic 3). Last edited by Ignacio49; February 18, 2010 at 08:41 PM.

February 18, 2010, 08:01 PM	#6
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	UPDATE: I have found that the mark in the cylinder (pic 3) is a LIEGE proof house mark (see https://bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf Could this be a Belgian or British gun? Last edited by Ignacio49; February 19, 2010 at 06:54 AM.

February 18, 2010, 08:31 PM	#9
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Belgian firearms manufacturers copied virtually every firearm ever made. Many were made of poor materials, many were made of high quality materials. Without knowing exactly who made your revolver, assume it is made from cheap materials. Yours appears to be fairly well made, but it is not possible to judge metallurgy by outward appearances. Since the manufacturer did not put their name on the piece, it was likely an inexpensive trade gun. Put it on a shelf or in a shadow box, look at it every now and again and smile. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 18, 2010, 06:47 AM	#2
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Looks like the old Iver Johnson .32 I have. Mine has a transfer bar in it instead of a fixed firing pin. Junk gun. I wouldn't trust it to hit the broad side of a barn if I was standing inside it. Throw it away.

February 18, 2010, 08:24 AM	#3
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	There were many cheap top breaks made mostly in 32 cal. Not worth anything and not very safe ! That flower on the grip may identify the brand.

February 18, 2010, 08:16 PM	#7
Hoss Fly Junior member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: East Texas Posts: 849	The only thing i can tell you is it's NOT a S&W Which pretty much means its a paper weight/wall hanger thats not really worth the oil or elbow grease to make it look better & SURE not a shooter - Sorry but just my semi-experinced but totally honest answer

February 18, 2010, 08:28 PM	#8
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Sure Hoss Fly, agree with you. I am not asking expecting a hidden treasure. It is just curiosity and the investigation activity which I find interesting.

February 18, 2010, 09:07 PM	#10
Ignacio49 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Posts: 221	Scorch: "Put it on a shelf or in a shadow box, look at it every now and again and smile" Scorch, I will!!

February 18, 2010, 10:33 PM	#11
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	It is not - S&W, Iver Johnson, H&R, Hopkins & Allen, or US Revolver. From the proof on the cylinder it looks like a Spanish copy. What ever you do, don't shoot modern ammo with it. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

February 19, 2010, 05:30 AM	#12
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	With that proof mark it's probably made in Liege Belgium. That's been a major gun center for a very long time. The 'Belgian' Brownings were made there and many others such as the present FN guns .