Can I make a private sale of shotgun in Wisconsin?

[RetiredMajor]

Guys, I've been googling this for over 30 minutes and can't find an answer to my question. I'm an Iowa resident and want to sell a shotgun to a Wisconsin resident in a private face to face sale. Can I do this legally? I think it's legal, but can't find it in writing anywhere.

Any help would be appreciated.

Major

[Doyle]

Not directly. If both the buyer and the seller are not the resident of the same state, the transfer must go through a FLL.

[Don H]

For reference:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...ensed-transfer

[RetiredMajor]

Doyle and Don H, Thanks for responding!

Based on your responses, I contacted two different FFL's in Wisconsin this morning and told them what I wanted to do. I'm in Iowa and want to sell a used shotgun to a friend in Wisconsin. We'll meet face to face and make the sale. They both told me that I can do a face to face, private sale between states, WITHOUT getting an FFL involved. They were BOTH very clear that an FFL needs to be involved if I was "shipping" the shotgun as opposed to hand delivering it.

So, unless they are both wrong, I think I'm legal and good to go.

Any comments? I really don't know where else to check but absolutely want to be legal.

Thanks,
Major

[carguychris]

I contacted two different FFL's in Wisconsin this morning and told them what I wanted to do... They both told me that I can do a face to face, private sale between states, WITHOUT getting an FFL involved. They were BOTH very clear that an FFL needs to be involved if I was "shipping" the shotgun as opposed to hand delivering it.

So, unless they are both wrong...

THEY ARE BOTH ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY, 100% WRONG.

I'm serious. (Can you tell? ) The method of delivery is absolutely irrelevant. I'm really surprised you got these answers from people who should theoretically know better.

See Doyle's post above. Suggest arranging to meet the buyer at an FFL in WI.

[RetiredMajor]

Chris, I see your response and don't doubt you, but WOW, who should I believe?

I think I'm doing the right thing by contacting not one, but TWO Wisconsin FFL's. BOTH provide the same exact answer to me.

This is confusing. I'm going to call two more Wisconsin FFL's and see what they say.

Major

[thallub]

THEY ARE BOTH ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY, 100% WRONG.

Bingo!!!!

[Don H]

As carguychris pointed out, the federal code doesn't differentiate on the method of transfer. I suggest that you call BATF, rather than FFLs, since they are the ones enforcing the law.

[carguychris]

I think I'm doing the right thing by contacting not one, but TWO Wisconsin FFL's. BOTH provide the same exact answer to me.

This is confusing. I'm going to call two more Wisconsin FFL's and see what they say.

Here's where I think they got confused. I think they misunderstood the question.

It is probably legal for them, as FFLs, to sell long guns (i.e. rifles and shotguns) to IA residents so long as the transaction occurs face-to-face. This is legal under federal law. (AFAIK a handful of states have state laws restricting their residents from buying firearms out-of-state, but I don't think IA or WI are on the short list.)

OTOH it is not legal for you, as a nonlicensee, to conduct this sort of transaction directly with another nonlicensed buyer.

[RetiredMajor]

Thanks Chris,

I know I was very clear when I told my story to all 4 FFL's now. And, I have received the exact same answer that I, as a private citizen can sell my shotgun to my buddy in Wisconsin without going through an FFL. Private delivery and private sale.

Weird. I'm calling BATFE. My confidence in FFL's is low. And, I called FFL's who operate near the Wisconsin/Iowa border, reasoning that they may have been involved in state-to-state transfers before.

Major

[carguychris]

I'm calling BATFE. My confidence in FFL's is low.

+1. Here's the problem. FFLs are usually experts about what an FFL with their class of license can do; otherwise they wouldn't be in business for very long. However, they're often much less knowledgeable about what a nonlicensee or a different class of FFL can do, and may make incorrect assumptions based on the rules as applied to themselves.

And, I called FFL's who operate near the Wisconsin/Iowa border, reasoning that they may have been involved in state-to-state transfers before.

I guarantee you that they're used to answering one of four basic questions from IA residents:

1) "I live in IA and I want to come to your store and buy a <name of rifle or shotgun>, can I do that?" - YES (probably)

2) "I live in IA and I want to come to your store and buy a <name of handgun>, can I do that?" - NO, you have to buy it in your home state or do a transfer

3) "I live in IA and I want to send you a check and have you mail a <gun name> to me, can I do that?" - NO, you have to come to our store in person

4) "I live in IA and I want my buddy / mom / whomever in WI to go to your store and pick up a <gun name> for me, can I do that?" - NO, you have to come to our store in person

I still think they're applying the "YES" answer from question #1 to the wrong situation.

[RetiredMajor]

I contend those FFL's are misinformed or forgot how to say "I don't know!". Honestly, I painted the scenario crystal clear, even to the point of telling them I would transport my shotgun in my trunk to my buddy's house, I would hand it to him and he would pay me directly....etc. etc.

I called BATFE and am going through an FFL. It's a whopping $15.00 for the transfer. My frustration is that we have FFL's who don't know the law and are giving citizens like me bad information. I'm glad I'm a member here and can rely on you guys to help me!

Thanks again for all the help and replies.

Major

[Don H]

You're quite welcome. I'm happy to be of some help.

[natman]

So, unless they are both wrong, I think I'm legal and good to go.

They are BOTH wrong. Here are the relevant portions of the law with emphasis added:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. .......A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State.

So you can sell directly to a person in YOUR state. You have to get a licensee (FFL) involved if the buyer is not from YOUR state.

Mind you this is FEDERAL law. State laws may vary.

[brickeyee]

While states can add additional restrictions on private sales, they cannot alter the federal law requiring sales between residents of differnet states to use an FFL.