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Old February 22, 2015, 01:39 PM   #1
Crankgrinder
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why an AR pistol?

There has been much talk of ar pistols recently some of it probably due to the proposed m855 ban. People seem to love the subject so let's talk about it. My one ar15 is full rifle length with 20" h-bar and a free float. It's a range gun I don't use it for hd or have fantasies of 5-11 and kevlar and camo. Is it mobility offered at a compromise of velocity? Or is it just the natural way of gun owners who like to tinker and it's something that lends itself to modification and playing with? Is it a perceived rebellion against nfa laws regarding short barrels? Why do people seem fascinated by what seems me a gun still too big to be a pistol with a buffer tube sticking out the back of it ? What am I missing? Is it fadish?
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Old February 22, 2015, 01:58 PM   #2
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It's easier to shoot an AR pistol out of a motor vehicle than a rifle variety.
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Old February 22, 2015, 02:16 PM   #3
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The AR pistol has been around for YEARS. It makes a handy package for the guy that cant have a true SBR.

You do give up some performance out of the shorter barrels Vs a rifle length. But thats true of a SBR as well.

Im sure alot of guys get em for the "Rambo" complex...but i know guys that own Ferraris and have never had em into triple digits.

Even if they are just fun range toys...thats reason enough to have one
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Old February 22, 2015, 03:14 PM   #4
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I know some folks buy the pistol, then file a form 1. Once they receive their stamp they slap a stock on it.
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Old February 22, 2015, 04:31 PM   #5
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The only AR pistol I handled, honestly couldn't find a good reason for it (for me anyway) however he put a stock on it and made it into a SBR and then it felt "alive", fast and natural pointing.
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Old February 22, 2015, 07:01 PM   #6
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Short barrel rifle without the hassle.
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Old February 22, 2015, 07:06 PM   #7
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I've had 5.56 pistols. IMO, they're too friggin' loud to be useful in enclosed areas. Unless you plan on suppressing it, the bad outweighs the good, plenty of better options out there.
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Old February 22, 2015, 07:36 PM   #8
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Yep, that's the one thing nobody thinks about until it bites them.

Several indoor ranges ban them...for ONE reason...loudness.
Louder than a .500 by about double...and if you have faulty hearing protection...ouch.
Or even just earplugs with no earmuffs...ouchie...

Even supressed, its still too loud for home defense use.
You'd deafen not only the bad guys, but your whole family as well.
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Old February 22, 2015, 07:43 PM   #9
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About double the loudness of a .500, that's crazy loud. Interesting to know and I believe it. The sad thing is or at least I think it is that .500 prob. Has more punch than the .556 out of that short barrel at useful distance. I only know one guy who owns one. Never shot it.
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Old February 22, 2015, 07:58 PM   #10
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It's a "niche" gun. It has uses, just not a whole lot of them.
It can be a range toy, just like any other gun.
It can be a "poor boy's SBR" since there is no tax stamp, and doesn't have the possession and travel limitations that NFA has.
It is compact, much more compact than a fullsize rifle, and a bit easier to maneuver in really tight spots like inside a motor vehicle than even an SBR, since the bare buffer tube is much smaller than a stock (although not shorter).
Since it is a handgun, and not a rifle, for those who feel the need to carry this kind of firepower, it can be carried under a CHP.
There is a gray area here about OAL. Once you hit 26" OAL, it can be considered a "Firearm", which is not a "Handgun". Concealing a "Firearm" makes it an AOW.

Because of its short barrel, you will have to use some kind of performance ammunition to get good terminal performance much past 100yds. Inside that, regular military ammo will do as specified.

They can be sufficiently suppressed, but you have to be careful. Many 5.56mm suppressors are not rated to be on barrels below about 12"-14" by their makers. You would have to make sure to get one that is capable of going on a really short barrel.

Barrels generally get as short as 7", going to about 12", but the 10.5" is about the best overall. The 7" can be finicky, while the 12" has gotten long enough you might as well go 16" and put a stock on it.

Yes, they are very loud. The right muzzle device does help some, at least outdoors. Indoors, suppressed is the only way to go.
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Old February 22, 2015, 08:01 PM   #11
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Because uncle sam and bloomys astroturf mommy group doesn't want me to have one.
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Old February 22, 2015, 08:02 PM   #12
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There is that ........................
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Old February 22, 2015, 08:38 PM   #13
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In ME you can have a loaded handgun in a car (with a ccw) but not a rifle.
So if you want a loaded "truck rifle" up here, an ar pistol with the brace is the best way to go.
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Old February 22, 2015, 08:41 PM   #14
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What ritepath said; that and fun.
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Old February 22, 2015, 10:46 PM   #15
chris in va
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I can always tell when someone is touching off an AR pistol. It's loud, but has a deeper THUD you can feel all the way down the line. Ditto for the AK pistols.
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Old February 22, 2015, 11:11 PM   #16
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I'm sure it is horrendously loud but I have trouble digesting an argument that suggests it's TWICE as loud as a .500 Smith & Wesson Magnum?

There's science and mathematics that might be calculable here (I certainly can't do it! ) and without a decibel meter (and not having either of those guns handy...) I can't do that either.

.500 Mag works at a bit less pressure, but not WAY less pressure. But that's a bore twice the size that is letting gas escape. The big magnum revolver also burns more propellant -- obviously the charge weight is quite variable depending on the bullet and powder selected for each different load, but in some cases we could be talking TWICE the volume of powder in the .500 Magnum.

I'm sure it's a nasty awful -BOOM- with an AR pistol. I run .223 from a 14-inch Contender and the boom I make with it is more like the .30-cal rifle bark than any of the .224" rifles at the range. But twice what a .500 Mag dumps? I'd like to hear some of the science behind this.
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Old February 22, 2015, 11:12 PM   #17
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AR pistols have mostly proven "useful" in stirring the Feds into attempting to ban certain styles of rifle ammo.

Gabby and the astronut say "good job" to the SBR cheapskates out there.
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Old February 22, 2015, 11:55 PM   #18
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I have no doubt they are loud. The loudest gun I have ever heard, by far, was a TC contender in 243 with a ~12 or 14 inch barrel. Louder than a 300 magnum with a muzzle break. An overbore cartridge in a short barrel is LOUD.

So I expect a 5.56 pistol would be in the same ball game.
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Old February 23, 2015, 12:00 AM   #19
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I was fortunate enough to be two lanes down from a gentleman who brought one to the indoor range last weekend. He graciously offered to let me fire 10 rounds. Its loud but not terrible. I would compare it to the muzzle blast of an '06.
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Old February 23, 2015, 12:09 AM   #20
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I went through a lot of guns with HD in mind before settling on my AR pistol. it's super small, no stock,/brace, I can easily pick it up with one hand while sitting in bed. can maneuver it through hallways which I could not with other guns. I do not find it difficult to shoot in it's current configuration, it's only use is for my house, so I have never attempted more than 50 yards. it's 300BLK, I love the power with a larger diameter bullet compared to a standard AR or 9mm of similar size. as long as you have short-range in mind, I don't see the downside, and I cannot justify the extra cost for a sbr/stock. I don't feel the 300blk is as loud as .223, but I have nothing to back that up. the only other gun I think would be pretty good for HD for me would be a short barrel .357 lever, but unfortunately, I wsnt thinking about it when I bought my 20"

cheap, light, small, powerful, reliable
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Old February 23, 2015, 01:26 AM   #21
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When you get below 14" barrel length in a 5.56 you start to sacrifice a lot of ballistic performance.
If I were to run an AR pistol it would (and is) in 300 Blackout. Though you still loose velocity you have the benefit of a 220gr bullet. Oh and that is subsonic so with a silencer it is quiet.
I prefer the 300 BLK in short barreled AR platforms.
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Old February 23, 2015, 08:30 AM   #22
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I bought a Carbon 15, Type 97 for the following reasons:

1. Because it was an inventive way around the Assault Weapons Ban on large, heavy pistols and the Antis hate this pistol;

2. For kicks and giggles - which it has provided me with many.

3. It's super light, compact and I would consider making it my go to .223 in an emergency.

4. It can be carried in a small gym bag, or slung over your back with a shirt or jacket covering it. I.e. it's not impossible to carry inconspicuously.

5. My 120 round Chinese Drum works with it.

6. If something of mine is going to be confiscated by FEMA during a Hurricane emergency, I'd rather it be my Carbon-15 than my AC556.

7. It works great with all brass-cased ammo I've tried in it; not so much with Wolf steel-cased ammo, though.
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Old February 23, 2015, 09:10 AM   #23
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Supposedly, one of the reasons le has gone to the ar platform for swat type operations instead of smg type guns is that 5.56mm has much less barrier penetration (not using green tip) in things such as house walls than 9mm. Therefore, missed rounds are less likely to do collateral damage in the next room. At the ranges presented inside a dwelling, lost ballistics from a short barrel are irrelevant.
That would make the ar pistol a good choice for a high firepower HD gun, better than a pistol cal carbine.
I still prefer my pistol cal.carbine in the house, though. Even with the suppressor, its only barely longer than the ar pistol.
But that's me.
The carbon 15s have always been a bit more finicky.
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Old February 23, 2015, 09:43 AM   #24
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I have to admit while I have no practical use for one the example in the pic does have some attractiveness about it. Would a setup like that one in 50 Beowulf or 458 socom be that much more useful?
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Old February 23, 2015, 10:07 AM   #25
Jim567
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My gun club will not allow AR or AK pistols on ANY of it's ranges.
The statement says they are not controllable and dangerous.
Maybe there was a indecent.
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