45 colt oal concerns

droppedime · January 12, 2011, 10:09 AM

Hey guys,

I have recently started reloading 45colt or atleast am trying to. My main problem is that when seating the bullet, to the oal of 1.6 like all my documentation says to seat it to. The groove/cannalure is still very visable on the bullet. Now i have took it upon my self to seat the bullet to were the groove isnt visible and to were the crimp forms into the groove. But by doing that i come up with an oal of 1.573. Now i take a factory round an check it, lo an behold its at 1.584. So neither of them are at the correct 1.6.. Is this something i should be worried about or do i just stay away from the higher load data since i am minimizing the oal. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

bozhoz · January 12, 2011, 10:19 AM

I had a couple of issues like that when doing 45 LC rounds. When all is said and done though, you crimp on the cannelure. One thing I did find helpful was to try to find load data for the exact bullet that I was loading, in this case Hornady XTPs, and I did find that my OAL did come in pretty close to what they published. Some other bullets, not so much. Another point to mention is to ensure that you have the correct bullet... for instance Hornady makes a .45 bullet for both the Colt and the .454 Casull, and the cannelure is in slightly different positions for those respective rounds. One is called the XTP, the other is the XTP Mag.

So, my recommendations are as follows... 1) Ensure that your cases are trimmed to the correct length to begin with 2) Try to find load data for your exact bullet if possible 3) If you can't find the data for the exact bullet and you are still coming up under the published OAL, back your load down to recommended minimum, and then slowly build up from there looking for signs of pressure.

A distant fourth recommendation if none of the above works in a satisfactory manner is to buy a bullet cannelure device to put the cannelure where you want it.

zippy13 · January 12, 2011, 12:44 PM

Droppedime, you didn't mention what bullet you're using. Yes, the maximum overall cartridge length is 1.60-inch; but, that doesn't mean that it's appropriate for all loads. The data I have include loads with lengths from 1.55-inch to 1.70*-inch. What does the data for the specific bullet you're using recommend?

I concur with bozhoz, there are many varieties of .45 bullets on the market. Unless the one you are using is designed specifically for the .45 Colt, the cannelure may not align with the .45 Colt's case mouth. Altering the seating depth from that specified may alter pressure; but, the .45 Colt is a relatively low-pressure load in modern guns. When developing new loads be alert for signs of excess pressure.

*1.70-inch: Typically the .45-Colt is loaded with flat nosed (FN) bullet, and reloading with FN SWC and HP's is appropriate. If you compare the .45 Colt to a cartridge designed for a RN bullet (.45ACP), you'll note that the allowable bullet projection is 1/16-inch longer in the .45ACP. If round nose billets are used in .45 Colt revolvers, then the 1.70-inch OAL may be appropriate if the cylinder is long enough. RN's shouldn't be used in tube magazine rifles.

b money · January 12, 2011, 12:54 PM

I am wondering if you were looking at the max OAL, I don't remember the max OAL offhand for the 45lc but it has to be around 1.6, and if that is the case then you are perfectly fine with the 1.573 you got. It is generally best to crimp in the crimp grove if the bullet has one and start your loads at or just a hair over minimum and incress from there, always watching for pressure signs.

Zippy beat me to it haha

droppedime · January 12, 2011, 02:17 PM

Thanks so much for the info. The bullets im using Magnus 200gr rnfp they are .452 in diameter. I plan on using these rounds in a taurus judge if that makes any difference. The overall cartrige length is comes in at 1.577 to 1.579. This is also my first time roll crimping so hopefully i was able to put enough tension to were the bullets wont start to move around on me. I loaded 15bullets with titegroup powder starting at 6.6, 6.9, 7.2. So after work ill let yall know how they did. That is unless anyone knows of something else i should do b4 i try them? what are some signs of pressure i neeed to look for besides.. looking at the primers, the case walls, and to see if the bulets tumbling or the crimp isnt tight enough?

zippy13 · January 12, 2011, 02:43 PM

There are those who would argue that the crimp shouldn't be the prime factor in restraining bullet pull, but it should be case neck friction. One solution is to use a slightly smaller expander. Are you experiencing bullet pull, or just trying to be cautious from the get-go?

In case no one has mentioned it, you needn't worry about the Judge's cylinder being too short for 1.70-inch OAL loads.

droppedime · January 12, 2011, 03:15 PM

As far as the crimp being the main factor.. Its not really that just that i havent ever done a roll crimp before. Only taper crimps on 9mm. With them an these i just expand them far enough for the bullets base to actually sit in the case. I dont expand them enough to push the bullet in any further without the seat die. Im pretty sure theres enough case tension holding them in place.. So pretty much just trying to be cautious from the get go.

bozhoz · January 12, 2011, 03:48 PM

Just be careful on the Judge. I loaded some .45's for it and my first one was a squib stuck in the barrel. I was using the recommended starting load for this. Only thing I could think of was maybe the opening between the cylinder and barrel is a little wider than on most revolvers. It will be pretty obvious if you get a squib though... flames everywhere but out the front. It might take a little more ooomph to get it out that a typical revolver.

zippy13 · January 12, 2011, 03:48 PM

You may be confusing expanding with belling. Typically, expanding is done in concert with the sizing and decapping operation. As you withdraw the shell from the sizing die, the expander ball sizes the inside of the case. With my Dillon press, belling is done in concert with the powder drop and is adjustable. It's the bell/flare that lets you set/start the bullet in the case mouth for the seating die. With your 9mm's, you've been using the crimp die to remove the bell. A smaller expander will make the area below the bell tighter. If your loads don't exhibit any pull (fire five rounds in the cylinder then remove the sixth for an OAL measure), then don't worry about changing your expander.

January 12, 2011, 10:09 AM	#1
droppedime Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 26	45 colt oal concerns Hey guys, I have recently started reloading 45colt or atleast am trying to. My main problem is that when seating the bullet, to the oal of 1.6 like all my documentation says to seat it to. The groove/cannalure is still very visable on the bullet. Now i have took it upon my self to seat the bullet to were the groove isnt visible and to were the crimp forms into the groove. But by doing that i come up with an oal of 1.573. Now i take a factory round an check it, lo an behold its at 1.584. So neither of them are at the correct 1.6.. Is this something i should be worried about or do i just stay away from the higher load data since i am minimizing the oal. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

January 12, 2011, 12:44 PM	#3
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Droppedime, you didn't mention what bullet you're using. Yes, the maximum overall cartridge length is 1.60-inch; but, that doesn't mean that it's appropriate for all loads. The data I have include loads with lengths from 1.55-inch to 1.70-inch. What does the data for the specific bullet you're using recommend? I concur with bozhoz, there are many varieties of .45 bullets on the market. Unless the one you are using is designed specifically for the .45 Colt, the cannelure may not align with the .45 Colt's case mouth. Altering the seating depth from that specified may alter pressure; but, the .45 Colt is a relatively low-pressure load in modern guns. When developing new loads be alert for signs of excess pressure. 1.70-inch: Typically the .45-Colt is loaded with flat nosed (FN) bullet, and reloading with FN SWC and HP's is appropriate. If you compare the .45 Colt to a cartridge designed for a RN bullet (.45ACP), you'll note that the allowable bullet projection is 1/16-inch longer in the .45ACP. If round nose billets are used in .45 Colt revolvers, then the 1.70-inch OAL may be appropriate if the cylinder is long enough. RN's shouldn't be used in tube magazine rifles.

January 12, 2011, 10:19 AM	#2
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	I had a couple of issues like that when doing 45 LC rounds. When all is said and done though, you crimp on the cannelure. One thing I did find helpful was to try to find load data for the exact bullet that I was loading, in this case Hornady XTPs, and I did find that my OAL did come in pretty close to what they published. Some other bullets, not so much. Another point to mention is to ensure that you have the correct bullet... for instance Hornady makes a .45 bullet for both the Colt and the .454 Casull, and the cannelure is in slightly different positions for those respective rounds. One is called the XTP, the other is the XTP Mag. So, my recommendations are as follows... 1) Ensure that your cases are trimmed to the correct length to begin with 2) Try to find load data for your exact bullet if possible 3) If you can't find the data for the exact bullet and you are still coming up under the published OAL, back your load down to recommended minimum, and then slowly build up from there looking for signs of pressure. A distant fourth recommendation if none of the above works in a satisfactory manner is to buy a bullet cannelure device to put the cannelure where you want it.

January 12, 2011, 12:54 PM	#4
b money Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Granville, IL Posts: 153	I am wondering if you were looking at the max OAL, I don't remember the max OAL offhand for the 45lc but it has to be around 1.6, and if that is the case then you are perfectly fine with the 1.573 you got. It is generally best to crimp in the crimp grove if the bullet has one and start your loads at or just a hair over minimum and incress from there, always watching for pressure signs. Zippy beat me to it haha

January 12, 2011, 02:17 PM	#5
droppedime Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 26	Thanks so much for the info. The bullets im using Magnus 200gr rnfp they are .452 in diameter. I plan on using these rounds in a taurus judge if that makes any difference. The overall cartrige length is comes in at 1.577 to 1.579. This is also my first time roll crimping so hopefully i was able to put enough tension to were the bullets wont start to move around on me. I loaded 15bullets with titegroup powder starting at 6.6, 6.9, 7.2. So after work ill let yall know how they did. That is unless anyone knows of something else i should do b4 i try them? what are some signs of pressure i neeed to look for besides.. looking at the primers, the case walls, and to see if the bulets tumbling or the crimp isnt tight enough?

January 12, 2011, 02:43 PM	#6
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	There are those who would argue that the crimp shouldn't be the prime factor in restraining bullet pull, but it should be case neck friction. One solution is to use a slightly smaller expander. Are you experiencing bullet pull, or just trying to be cautious from the get-go? In case no one has mentioned it, you needn't worry about the Judge's cylinder being too short for 1.70-inch OAL loads.

January 12, 2011, 03:15 PM	#7
droppedime Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 26	As far as the crimp being the main factor.. Its not really that just that i havent ever done a roll crimp before. Only taper crimps on 9mm. With them an these i just expand them far enough for the bullets base to actually sit in the case. I dont expand them enough to push the bullet in any further without the seat die. Im pretty sure theres enough case tension holding them in place.. So pretty much just trying to be cautious from the get go.

January 12, 2011, 03:48 PM	#8
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Just be careful on the Judge. I loaded some .45's for it and my first one was a squib stuck in the barrel. I was using the recommended starting load for this. Only thing I could think of was maybe the opening between the cylinder and barrel is a little wider than on most revolvers. It will be pretty obvious if you get a squib though... flames everywhere but out the front. It might take a little more ooomph to get it out that a typical revolver.