1858 timing adjustment

noelf2 · November 30, 2016, 07:06 PM

Getting around to finally working on my pietta 1858 5.5" barrel. The cylinder locks up properly but in lockup, the chambers and the barrel are slightly off. It locks up just a hair's width too far, so I can see a little sliver of cylinder face shining back at me with a light shining down the barrel. It's just a slight sliver of a reflection. What is the fix?

noelf2 · December 1, 2016, 09:27 AM

I sculpted the bolt head and it's now a bit better, but I'd like the cylinder/barrel lineup to be perfect. Anybody know how to work that?

Hawg · December 1, 2016, 10:19 AM

Not much you can do with that without making the cylinder lockup sloppy. A new cylinder might fix it but if it shoots good and doesn't spray lead I wouldn't worry about it. It should have been returned when it was new.

foolzrushn · December 1, 2016, 10:29 AM

My first contact with BP was an old kit gun ( wish I could remember what company) with this same problem. I think the cylinder bolt slots were cut wrong. I traded it for another pistol with one scarred cylinder cavity. I know that doesn't help, but I gave up on it.

At the time I knew nothing about BP pistols (probably still don't

). First you should try another cylinder if you can, to see if it's your cylinder. If you have a Cabelas close, you could take your Remmie in, to see if one of their spare cylinders would fix it ($50). Or if you had a friend with a Remmie to let you check fit.

I sanded a wooden dowel down to just snugly fit through the barrel and into a cylinder cavity. Then I noted how far off the cylinder bolt fit was for each cavity. This will tell you if the bolt slots are consistant around the cylinder.

If they are consistant and you don't think it's the cylinder, or can't try a different one, or just want to make that one work....whew....then you are left with modifying the bolt to get it in time. This might involve adding metal to one side and removing it from the other, then heat treating if you like. Remember the bolt still needs to fit through the slot in the frame, so you might need to change that, And it would be nice to have a close fit there to help steady the bolt.

It comes down to how much work you think it needs. I am disappointed that Pietta let that one slip. How old is it (date code)?

It would also be nice to compare your bolt to another Remmie in case you could just change a bad bolt. Hope this helps. Maybe others will have better solutions.

noelf2 · December 1, 2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Not much you can do with that without making the cylinder lockup sloppy. A new cylinder might fix it but if it shoots good and doesn't spray lead I wouldn't worry about it. It should have been returned when it was new.

I have two cap and ball cylinders and they are fine in it. It's the R&D cylinder that I'm trying to fit in it better. The bolt head was tight in all the notches and was a very tight lockup, so I stoned the appropriate side and it fit better with just a little wiggle on the cylinder now (about the same amount of wiggle as my goonerized 1860 so I think it's ok). After my bolt head alteration, I can put a little reverse pressure on the cylinder (when in lockup) and not see cylinder face through the barrel anymore. I guess the proof will be in whether or not the forcing cone gets leaded up, or if the gun spits some lead out the barrel / cylinder gap. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

Hellgate · December 1, 2016, 08:11 PM

I had two SS Piettas from the late 1990s that would jam the cylinder by jumping out of the bolt stop slot when the ball rammed the off center rear of the barrel. Reaming the forcing cone solved the jamming problem but I still was unsatisfied with the alignment. On and even worse Euroarms Remmie I solved the problem by dropping an Uberti cylinder in.

45 Dragoon · December 2, 2016, 06:25 AM

Hey noelf2,
Is the tall side (frame side) of the bolt head tapered any? If it is, you need a new bolt. The sides of the bolt head should be perpendicular to each other and no taper at all (even though they will do that sometimes at the factory just to get it out the door).

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

noelf2 · December 2, 2016, 09:06 AM

It is a bit tapered. I think I'll try a new bolt. Will the taper you describe cause a chamber/barrel alignment problem when in lockup?

45 Dragoon · December 2, 2016, 07:13 PM

Yes, it can and it would allow over rotation as well.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

noelf2 · December 2, 2016, 07:42 PM

Thanks Mike. I ordered a new bolt. Here are pics of the bolt head. Note the weird lip on the high side. Does this look tapered like you describe?

I plan on using this revolver with the R&D cylinder only, so I also ordered a wolff reduced power main spring as well.

45 Dragoon · December 5, 2016, 07:58 AM

Hey Noelf2, (sorry, just saw this!)
Actually, that bolt looks OK to use. The taper I was talking about would be the face of the tall side (that slams into the side of the notch) being diminished from bottom to top. They sometimes make more of a "wedge" out of the bolt head than taking time to do it right.
As long as the tall side is perpendicular to the horizontal, the location of the bolt is what it is. It's possible that the bolt window is out of spec. and may need "massaging " to get the bolt next to the frame (is there a lip or burr in the window?)
Depending on how "loose" the fit may be, if lockup has the cyl over rotated, you may need to reduce the trailing (short side) surface of the bolt head to allow the ball/bullet to "self-align".
Slight play is actually better than " solid" lockup unless your cylinder was line-bored to your barrel/frame.

Oh yeah, loose the lip ! Lol!! (Forgot!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

noelf2 · December 5, 2016, 09:51 AM

Thanks Mike. I did stone a little off the trailing side of the bolt head already, and that allows for good alignment of the cylinder chambers and barrel. I only took off enough to "allow" a good alignment so the bullet can auto correct. I will check the bolt window in the frame next (should have done that first). If there is an anomaly, I'll try to fit the new bolt after correcting it.

BTW, the lip came off just after I posted the pictures

. Still locks up good with minimal play in the cylinder.

November 30, 2016, 07:06 PM	#1
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	1858 timing adjustment Getting around to finally working on my pietta 1858 5.5" barrel. The cylinder locks up properly but in lockup, the chambers and the barrel are slightly off. It locks up just a hair's width too far, so I can see a little sliver of cylinder face shining back at me with a light shining down the barrel. It's just a slight sliver of a reflection. What is the fix? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 1, 2016, 09:27 AM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I sculpted the bolt head and it's now a bit better, but I'd like the cylinder/barrel lineup to be perfect. Anybody know how to work that? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 1, 2016, 10:29 AM	#4
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	My first contact with BP was an old kit gun ( wish I could remember what company) with this same problem. I think the cylinder bolt slots were cut wrong. I traded it for another pistol with one scarred cylinder cavity. I know that doesn't help, but I gave up on it. At the time I knew nothing about BP pistols (probably still don't ). First you should try another cylinder if you can, to see if it's your cylinder. If you have a Cabelas close, you could take your Remmie in, to see if one of their spare cylinders would fix it ($50). Or if you had a friend with a Remmie to let you check fit. I sanded a wooden dowel down to just snugly fit through the barrel and into a cylinder cavity. Then I noted how far off the cylinder bolt fit was for each cavity. This will tell you if the bolt slots are consistant around the cylinder. If they are consistant and you don't think it's the cylinder, or can't try a different one, or just want to make that one work....whew....then you are left with modifying the bolt to get it in time. This might involve adding metal to one side and removing it from the other, then heat treating if you like. Remember the bolt still needs to fit through the slot in the frame, so you might need to change that, And it would be nice to have a close fit there to help steady the bolt. It comes down to how much work you think it needs. I am disappointed that Pietta let that one slip. How old is it (date code)? It would also be nice to compare your bolt to another Remmie in case you could just change a bad bolt. Hope this helps. Maybe others will have better solutions. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder' Last edited by foolzrushn; December 1, 2016 at 03:27 PM.

December 1, 2016, 08:11 PM	#6
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I had two SS Piettas from the late 1990s that would jam the cylinder by jumping out of the bolt stop slot when the ball rammed the off center rear of the barrel. Reaming the forcing cone solved the jamming problem but I still was unsatisfied with the alignment. On and even worse Euroarms Remmie I solved the problem by dropping an Uberti cylinder in. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

December 2, 2016, 06:25 AM	#7
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Hey noelf2, Is the tall side (frame side) of the bolt head tapered any? If it is, you need a new bolt. The sides of the bolt head should be perpendicular to each other and no taper at all (even though they will do that sometimes at the factory just to get it out the door). Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks Last edited by 45 Dragoon; December 2, 2016 at 06:36 AM.

December 1, 2016, 10:19 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,195	Not much you can do with that without making the cylinder lockup sloppy. A new cylinder might fix it but if it shoots good and doesn't spray lead I wouldn't worry about it. It should have been returned when it was new.

December 2, 2016, 09:06 AM	#8
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	It is a bit tapered. I think I'll try a new bolt. Will the taper you describe cause a chamber/barrel alignment problem when in lockup? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 2, 2016, 07:13 PM	#9
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Yes, it can and it would allow over rotation as well. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

December 5, 2016, 07:58 AM	#11
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	Hey Noelf2, (sorry, just saw this!) Actually, that bolt looks OK to use. The taper I was talking about would be the face of the tall side (that slams into the side of the notch) being diminished from bottom to top. They sometimes make more of a "wedge" out of the bolt head than taking time to do it right. As long as the tall side is perpendicular to the horizontal, the location of the bolt is what it is. It's possible that the bolt window is out of spec. and may need "massaging " to get the bolt next to the frame (is there a lip or burr in the window?) Depending on how "loose" the fit may be, if lockup has the cyl over rotated, you may need to reduce the trailing (short side) surface of the bolt head to allow the ball/bullet to "self-align". Slight play is actually better than " solid" lockup unless your cylinder was line-bored to your barrel/frame. Oh yeah, loose the lip ! Lol!! (Forgot!) Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

December 5, 2016, 09:51 AM	#12
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Thanks Mike. I did stone a little off the trailing side of the bolt head already, and that allows for good alignment of the cylinder chambers and barrel. I only took off enough to "allow" a good alignment so the bullet can auto correct. I will check the bolt window in the frame next (should have done that first). If there is an anomaly, I'll try to fit the new bolt after correcting it. BTW, the lip came off just after I posted the pictures . Still locks up good with minimal play in the cylinder. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.