1858 Reproduction pistol brand names

Delmar · October 14, 2009, 03:33 PM

I have been watching 1858's on the auction sites. I have heard of Pietta and Uberti but what can you tell me about some of the other brand names I see? I have seen Euroarms, Traditions, Navy Arms, ASM (is that the same as San Marco?), and Lyman Middlefield Conn.

SigP6Carry · October 14, 2009, 05:35 PM

My understanding is that they're all made by either Pietta or Uberti, then imported under different brand names for sale over here.

Hawg · October 14, 2009, 06:47 PM

Euroarms is formerly Armi San Paolo. Traditions and Navy are probably Pietta but could be Uberti. ASM is Armi San Marco. Lyman is either Uberti or Armi San Paolo. The ones to stay away from unless they're really cheap are ASM and older Pietta's(before 2000). Given a choice I'd take an older Pietta over ASM.

Delmar · October 14, 2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

My understanding is that they're all made by either Pietta or Uberti, then imported under different brand names for sale over here.

Anybody have a clue as to how to begin sorting that out?

Hawg · October 14, 2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Anybody have a clue as to how to begin sorting that out?

If you can look at the gun in question all Italian clones have a makers mark on them to identify who made it and a date code to tell when it was made.

Fingers McGee · October 14, 2009, 10:37 PM

This: https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/P...Proofmarks.pdf should give you the info you need to tell them apart.

Manufacturers are:

Uberti
Pietta
Euroarms (or Armi San Paolo)
Armi San Marco
Palmetto Armory

Importers are:

Navy Arms (Uberti, Pietta, Euroarms)
Cimarron (Uberti, ASM)
EMF (Pietta, ASM, Euroarms)
Lyman (Uberti ???)
Traditions (Pietta)
Western Arms (Uberti, ASM)
Replica Arms (Uberti, ASM)
Dixie Gun Works (Uberti, Pietta, ASM, Euroarms, Palmetto)
and a bunch of others

FM

Doc Hoy · October 15, 2009, 07:38 AM

I know this is a very personal thing, but I have two ASMs from the late seventies, early eighties and their quaility easily matches Pietta. I got them cheap. (One at a gun show, the other on Gunbroker.)

The only quarrel I have is that on the steel frame, the triggerguard fit is not quite right. But I see that on some Piettas I have examined. On the brasser, all of the external parts appear as though they were finished with the pistol assembled.

My experience is not as extensive as yours.

madcratebuilder · October 15, 2009, 09:13 AM

IMHO ASM's are well under rated. The ones I own and the ones I have worked on are as nice or nicer than any thing I have handled from Uberti or Pietta. Maybe I've only seen the better ones.

Back to the OP's question. Most of the 1858's you see are going to be Pietta or Uberti, a few ASM's in the "Buffalo" model.

Navy Arms sold both Uberti and Pietta models under their name.

The Spanish made E N Santa Barbara's are possibly the best import 1858. Made from ordnance grade steel.

You can buy a new Pietta 1858 from Cabela's for under $200 and that comes with excellent customer service.

Pietta makes a high end "shooters" model and Pedersoli makes a high end model of the 58.

Delmar · February 25, 2010, 04:56 PM

Anyone know who made the Rigarmi Remington Caliber 44 1858?

sundance44s · February 25, 2010, 05:40 PM

I`ve always been a big fan of the ASM Remingtons ...they do not have the writeing stamped all over them ( its well hidden under the loading lever ).
I just bought a 1851 Navy made by ASM ...its a nice one too ..barrel markings under the loading lever also .
I have noticed soft internals on the Remingtons ..but have no problem replaceing them with Pietta parts .

Hawg · February 25, 2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Anyone know who made the Rigarmi Remington Caliber 44 1858?

Rigarmi, they went under around 75. I have one made in 69.

longranger · February 25, 2010, 08:56 PM

Lyman= Investarms+Italian = worst of the litter. avoid

Delmar · February 25, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Rigarmi, they went under around 75. I have one made in 69.

How does it shoot? Can I assume parts are unavailable unless you can make parts from another brand fit?

sltm1 · February 25, 2010, 09:53 PM

Delmar, I have a Stainless Steel Pietta listed for sale w/ an extra cylinder for $250.00 if you're interested. It's marked [BU], which makes it 2004. Send me a PM if you're interested. Yes, I'm obsessive about keeping my guns clean, this one has approx 150 rounds through it.

bedbugbilly · February 25, 2010, 10:48 PM

I've got to back up what Doc and madcratebuilder say about the ASM. I have an ASM '61 Colt Navy and an ASM '62 Colt Pocket Police (in brass) that are two of the best quality revolvers I've ever seen in 45 years of shooting muzzle loaders. Let's face it - all of the companies have made their share of lemons over the years. Last summer I was waffling between a Pietta '58 Remington Navy and a Uberti '49 Colt Pocket. I had a chance to handle each of them, test cock 'em, etc. In the ones that I looked at, I took the Pietta because the quality was top notch, it had great fit and finish and the action was smooth and acted like it had been "tuned" - all right out of the box from the manufacturer. The Uberti '49 Colt Pocket on the other hand, was a piece of junk. Poor fit and finish and it acted like every internal part had burrs on them when it was cocked, the timing was off - plus the loading lever fit so bad that if you held it up to shoot and there was a slight breeze, I'm sure that it would have wagged back and forth under the barrel. Bottom line . . . . I'm not bad mouthing any of the brands or debating brand preferences that others have. I've seen junk that was produced by everyone of the manufacturers listed and I've also seen some really nice specimens. Chances are . . . if the supplier had had ten Pietta Remy Navies and ten Uberti '49 Colts and they were all put side by side on the counter and you had a chance to really examine them, you could find something wrong with some of each of the two brands (for the pistols you were examining). It all boils down to where it was made, who was in charge of quality control, what day of the week it was produced, etc. . . . . the same as our automobiles. Its hard to buy a pistol off of an auction site . . . let's face it . . . you're buying a "pig in a poke". Like Doc . . . I've purchased a pistol off of an auction site . . . . I bought an old Navy Arms replica of a Griswold & Gunnison with a short barrel off of AuctionArms one time. i took a chance and I lucked out as it had never been fired and while maybe the finish wasn't the best and I would have preferred the barrel stampings be under the barrel . . . I overlooked those things as it was well built, tolerances were tight and it's a nice shooting little .36 cal. brass frame. Mechanically it was great. To be realistic about it, if a person is going to purchase a BP revolver, the best way is to have a chance to look at it and handle it before buying to see if it is mechanically sound and is going to be what you want for the purposes you want it for. If you are limited to buying a gun off of an auction site, check out the seller's feedback and make sure that they have a return policy so if when you receive it and it has been misrepresented, you have the recourse of returning it for a refund. If you have questions, ask the seller before you bid . . . if the seller is elusive in their answers . . walk away from it. There are too many used ones sitting around collecting dust or revolvers that were purchased in past years and put away and never used, to get overly anxious and spend you money on something that you won't be happy with. And remember, if you buy it new, it should come with a warranty so if you have a problem, you can return it or exchange it. I bought my '62 ASM Colt Pocket a short time ago . . . . I still had a hankerin for a Pocket Model of some type and since I shoot .36, I thought the '62 Pocket would be a natural to have. I posted a "want to buy" on another site and within 24 housrs I had a response and purchased it - with a guarantee that I could return it if it wasn't what it was represented as. It was made in the 1980s, was unfired and superior in quality. I bought it at a fair price - I was happy - the seller was happy - it was good for everybody involved. As far as working on the various manufacturer's pistols . . . there are fellows on this site who have extensive experience in that and they can provide a vast amount of info on what brands pose a problem as far as still getting parts, etc. f you are considering buying a used one, put in a search on this site and see what threads have been posted on a particular brand. Oftentimes, there will be posts on problems and maybe you can get an idea of what brands or years of manufacturer to be wary about. Just my 2 cents worth . . . . which isn't worth a plug nickle! Good luck!

Hawg · February 26, 2010, 06:30 AM

Quote:

How does it shoot? Can I assume parts are unavailable unless you can make parts from another brand fit?

It shoots great. I replaced the loading lever and hand with ones from Dixie but they required a lot of fitting. Was going to replace the bolt while I was in there but the one from Dixie wasn't even close enough to make work so I just dressed the old one a little bit.

jcowan · February 26, 2010, 08:33 AM

I only own a few Uberti's and a few Piettas and none are as nice in fit and finish as my ASM's. I have heard that it is a crap shoot as to a good or bad ASM but I am 3 for 3 with really good ones. I hope my luck keeps up.

Doc Hoy · February 26, 2010, 09:28 AM

It is disappointing that parts are not easier to get.

Tnx,

sundance44s · February 26, 2010, 10:20 AM

DeerCreek products still have the parts for ASM revolvers ...But I found it just as easy to fit Pietta parts in mine .
NO such thing as drop in fix parts anyway .
So I stock alot of the Pietta parts and fit them to every make out there with out much problem .
Pietta parts are made of much harder steel or hardened better than they were in their early years , they had some soft internals back in the day also .
and most of the ASM`s I`ve bought were older new stock ...so it never supprised me the internals were a little soft .

Delmar · February 26, 2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Delmar, I have a Stainless Steel Pietta listed for sale w/ an extra cylinder for $250.00 if you're interested. It's marked [BU], which makes it 2004. Send me a PM if you're interested. Yes, I'm obsessive about keeping my guns clean, this one has approx 150 rounds through it.

Thanks but I very recently acquired two 1858s and an 1851 in the span of one week. No more cap and ball guns for me until after I get my coach gun, and my lever action rife. I wasn't interested in buying the Rigarmi. I was just interested in knowing about the brand. When I do get around to buying another cap and ball pistol, it will either be an 1860, an 1858 buffalo or the 12" barreled Colt that Dixie gun works has listed.

As a side note. The Rigarmi i mentioned is for sale at Cas City. I bought my Euroarms 1858 from the same guy and it is a really nice pistol.

TXGunNut · February 28, 2010, 10:13 PM

Great info! I have a Pietta and it's a beautiful replica of old world craftsmanship. Have taken it to the range twice and fired it with BP and round balls, just as the designers intended. Firing this thing is like touching history, glad I seem to have gotten a good one.
Thanks, guys!

sebou · March 3, 2010, 10:41 AM

RigArmi / RigArms (RAG) Industria Rino Galesi, Brescia, Italy.

Colt 1851 sheriff (1977)
Colt 1860 Army (1971)
Colt 1860 Army (XX? ---> 1964 to 1974)

I have not info more to this manufacturer. Revolvers seems to be good.
Seb

Doc Hoy · March 3, 2010, 01:20 PM

Sebou,

Welcome to the forum.

sebou · March 3, 2010, 02:32 PM

here a pic of Rigarmi's LOGO found on Colt Navy 1851 sherrif.

Seb

Hawg · March 3, 2010, 11:58 PM

My 58 Remington had it on the butt before it was defarbed.

October 14, 2009, 03:33 PM	#1
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	1858 Reproduction pistol brand names I have been watching 1858's on the auction sites. I have heard of Pietta and Uberti but what can you tell me about some of the other brand names I see? I have seen Euroarms, Traditions, Navy Arms, ASM (is that the same as San Marco?), and Lyman Middlefield Conn.

October 14, 2009, 05:35 PM	#2
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	My understanding is that they're all made by either Pietta or Uberti, then imported under different brand names for sale over here. __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-

October 14, 2009, 10:37 PM	#6
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	This: https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/P...Proofmarks.pdf should give you the info you need to tell them apart. Manufacturers are: Uberti Pietta Euroarms (or Armi San Paolo) Armi San Marco Palmetto Armory Importers are: Navy Arms (Uberti, Pietta, Euroarms) Cimarron (Uberti, ASM) EMF (Pietta, ASM, Euroarms) Lyman (Uberti ???) Traditions (Pietta) Western Arms (Uberti, ASM) Replica Arms (Uberti, ASM) Dixie Gun Works (Uberti, Pietta, ASM, Euroarms, Palmetto) and a bunch of others FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

October 15, 2009, 07:38 AM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Hawg, I know this is a very personal thing, but I have two ASMs from the late seventies, early eighties and their quaility easily matches Pietta. I got them cheap. (One at a gun show, the other on Gunbroker.) The only quarrel I have is that on the steel frame, the triggerguard fit is not quite right. But I see that on some Piettas I have examined. On the brasser, all of the external parts appear as though they were finished with the pistol assembled. My experience is not as extensive as yours. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 25, 2010, 05:40 PM	#10
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`ve always been a big fan of the ASM Remingtons ...they do not have the writeing stamped all over them ( its well hidden under the loading lever ). I just bought a 1851 Navy made by ASM ...its a nice one too ..barrel markings under the loading lever also . I have noticed soft internals on the Remingtons ..but have no problem replaceing them with Pietta parts . Last edited by sundance44s; February 25, 2010 at 05:58 PM.

October 14, 2009, 06:47 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,195	Euroarms is formerly Armi San Paolo. Traditions and Navy are probably Pietta but could be Uberti. ASM is Armi San Marco. Lyman is either Uberti or Armi San Paolo. The ones to stay away from unless they're really cheap are ASM and older Pietta's(before 2000). Given a choice I'd take an older Pietta over ASM.

October 15, 2009, 09:13 AM	#8
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	IMHO ASM's are well under rated. The ones I own and the ones I have worked on are as nice or nicer than any thing I have handled from Uberti or Pietta. Maybe I've only seen the better ones. Back to the OP's question. Most of the 1858's you see are going to be Pietta or Uberti, a few ASM's in the "Buffalo" model. Navy Arms sold both Uberti and Pietta models under their name. The Spanish made E N Santa Barbara's are possibly the best import 1858. Made from ordnance grade steel. You can buy a new Pietta 1858 from Cabela's for under $200 and that comes with excellent customer service. Pietta makes a high end "shooters" model and Pedersoli makes a high end model of the 58.

February 25, 2010, 04:56 PM	#9
Delmar Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Norhthern Indiana Posts: 307	Anyone know who made the Rigarmi Remington Caliber 44 1858?

February 25, 2010, 08:56 PM	#12
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	Lyman= Investarms+Italian = worst of the litter. avoid

February 25, 2010, 09:53 PM	#14
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Delmar, I have a Stainless Steel Pietta listed for sale w/ an extra cylinder for $250.00 if you're interested. It's marked [BU], which makes it 2004. Send me a PM if you're interested. Yes, I'm obsessive about keeping my guns clean, this one has approx 150 rounds through it.

February 25, 2010, 10:48 PM	#15
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Chances are I've got to back up what Doc and madcratebuilder say about the ASM. I have an ASM '61 Colt Navy and an ASM '62 Colt Pocket Police (in brass) that are two of the best quality revolvers I've ever seen in 45 years of shooting muzzle loaders. Let's face it - all of the companies have made their share of lemons over the years. Last summer I was waffling between a Pietta '58 Remington Navy and a Uberti '49 Colt Pocket. I had a chance to handle each of them, test cock 'em, etc. In the ones that I looked at, I took the Pietta because the quality was top notch, it had great fit and finish and the action was smooth and acted like it had been "tuned" - all right out of the box from the manufacturer. The Uberti '49 Colt Pocket on the other hand, was a piece of junk. Poor fit and finish and it acted like every internal part had burrs on them when it was cocked, the timing was off - plus the loading lever fit so bad that if you held it up to shoot and there was a slight breeze, I'm sure that it would have wagged back and forth under the barrel. Bottom line . . . . I'm not bad mouthing any of the brands or debating brand preferences that others have. I've seen junk that was produced by everyone of the manufacturers listed and I've also seen some really nice specimens. Chances are . . . if the supplier had had ten Pietta Remy Navies and ten Uberti '49 Colts and they were all put side by side on the counter and you had a chance to really examine them, you could find something wrong with some of each of the two brands (for the pistols you were examining). It all boils down to where it was made, who was in charge of quality control, what day of the week it was produced, etc. . . . . the same as our automobiles. Its hard to buy a pistol off of an auction site . . . let's face it . . . you're buying a "pig in a poke". Like Doc . . . I've purchased a pistol off of an auction site . . . . I bought an old Navy Arms replica of a Griswold & Gunnison with a short barrel off of AuctionArms one time. i took a chance and I lucked out as it had never been fired and while maybe the finish wasn't the best and I would have preferred the barrel stampings be under the barrel . . . I overlooked those things as it was well built, tolerances were tight and it's a nice shooting little .36 cal. brass frame. Mechanically it was great. To be realistic about it, if a person is going to purchase a BP revolver, the best way is to have a chance to look at it and handle it before buying to see if it is mechanically sound and is going to be what you want for the purposes you want it for. If you are limited to buying a gun off of an auction site, check out the seller's feedback and make sure that they have a return policy so if when you receive it and it has been misrepresented, you have the recourse of returning it for a refund. If you have questions, ask the seller before you bid . . . if the seller is elusive in their answers . . walk away from it. There are too many used ones sitting around collecting dust or revolvers that were purchased in past years and put away and never used, to get overly anxious and spend you money on something that you won't be happy with. And remember, if you buy it new, it should come with a warranty so if you have a problem, you can return it or exchange it. I bought my '62 ASM Colt Pocket a short time ago . . . . I still had a hankerin for a Pocket Model of some type and since I shoot .36, I thought the '62 Pocket would be a natural to have. I posted a "want to buy" on another site and within 24 housrs I had a response and purchased it - with a guarantee that I could return it if it wasn't what it was represented as. It was made in the 1980s, was unfired and superior in quality. I bought it at a fair price - I was happy - the seller was happy - it was good for everybody involved. As far as working on the various manufacturer's pistols . . . there are fellows on this site who have extensive experience in that and they can provide a vast amount of info on what brands pose a problem as far as still getting parts, etc. f you are considering buying a used one, put in a search on this site and see what threads have been posted on a particular brand. Oftentimes, there will be posts on problems and maybe you can get an idea of what brands or years of manufacturer to be wary about. Just my 2 cents worth . . . . which isn't worth a plug nickle! Good luck!

February 26, 2010, 08:33 AM	#17
jcowan Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 68	I only own a few Uberti's and a few Piettas and none are as nice in fit and finish as my ASM's. I have heard that it is a crap shoot as to a good or bad ASM but I am 3 for 3 with really good ones. I hope my luck keeps up.

February 26, 2010, 09:28 AM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yup! It is disappointing that parts are not easier to get. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

February 26, 2010, 10:20 AM	#19
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	DeerCreek products still have the parts for ASM revolvers ...But I found it just as easy to fit Pietta parts in mine . NO such thing as drop in fix parts anyway . So I stock alot of the Pietta parts and fit them to every make out there with out much problem . Pietta parts are made of much harder steel or hardened better than they were in their early years , they had some soft internals back in the day also . and most of the ASM`s I`ve bought were older new stock ...so it never supprised me the internals were a little soft .

February 28, 2010, 10:13 PM	#21
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Great info! I have a Pietta and it's a beautiful replica of old world craftsmanship. Have taken it to the range twice and fired it with BP and round balls, just as the designers intended. Firing this thing is like touching history, glad I seem to have gotten a good one. Thanks, guys! __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

March 3, 2010, 10:41 AM	#22
sebou Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: France Posts: 108	RigArmi / RigArms (RAG) Industria Rino Galesi, Brescia, Italy. Colt 1851 sheriff (1977) Colt 1860 Army (1971) Colt 1860 Army (XX? ---> 1964 to 1974) I have not info more to this manufacturer. Revolvers seems to be good. Seb

March 3, 2010, 01:20 PM	#23
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Welcome Sebou, Welcome to the forum. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 3, 2010, 02:32 PM	#24
sebou Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: France Posts: 108	here a pic of Rigarmi's LOGO found on Colt Navy 1851 sherrif. Seb

March 3, 2010, 11:58 PM	#25
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,195	My 58 Remington had it on the butt before it was defarbed.