9mm OS case problem

[Charlotte514]

I'm using Dillon 9mm dies, Dillon 650 press. I have used brass and I am getting about 10% fallout due to oversize cases. I have the sizing die set all the way down to the index plate so I do not understand how some can be oversized. Any suggestions?

Please see attached pics.

[Unclenick]

They may have been fired in a large chamber, such as a submachinegun chamber. Large diameter brass doesn't size down quite as far as narrower diameter fired pieces do. This is a limitation imposed by the sizing hysteresis of the brass.

You can get either a Redding GRx die or a Lee Caribide Factory Crimp Die plus their Bulge Buster adapter, and run all this brass through one of these OD sizing tools to reduce if before using your sizing die, or you can just toss the fat machine gun brass and "fugheddaboudit".

[g.willikers]

Sometimes trying to figure out the why of the universe will just give you a headache.
Like Unclenick sez, just toss the bad ones and get on with your life.

[Charlotte514]

Ok Thanks but that sucks I bought the 650 to reload with speed - not single station check the brass.

I'm reloading for a M11/9 so it's probably my fired brass that is the problem. Maybe I should just stick with factory at $.20 a round and sell the 650?

It's maxed out with all the accessories any interest?

I appreciate the replies.

[Jim Watson]

Have you tried the gauge fails back in the subgun?

The only thing that would work progressive would be an EGW "U" die made for them by Lee. It is a thou smaller and has less mouth radius to size farther down on the case. I have them in 9mm and .45, used mostly to size down brass tight for a good hold on short light hollowpoints.
http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=838

[firewrench044]

UNCLENICK --

Lee no longer recommends any die for 9mm Luger to be used with
their Bulge Buster

The 9mm Makarov die that was recommended by Lee was breaking
as did mine, I called for warranty and they warrantied it because
it was not very old and purchased it from them before they stopped recommending it for 9mm Luger

On FC ( Federal ) and Blazer cases the extraction ring is larger
than the other brands and they WILL crack ( break ) the Carbide
section of the die

[condor bravo]

I would assume that your over sized brass is range brass rather than brass purchased online from a vendor who should know better than to include them. It sounds like those cases should be discarded. Sources for 9mm once fired brass are plentiful. Check out www.oncefiredbrass.com for good pricing. However their 9mm brass is usually mixed headstamped if you don't mind that. They are located in New York and their 3 day priority shipping is good.

[g.willikers]

Maybe I should just stick with factory at $.20 a round and sell the 650?

Don't give up so easily.
Reloading is a hobby of its own.

The 9mm Makarov die that was recommended by Lee

Sounds similar to the cure for dealing with oversized 9mm cases from the very inexpensive imported military ammo about twenty years ago.
Resizing with .38 Super dies worked like a charm.

[qrz]

The Lee FCD is carbide and tapered. You can push the cases thru with enough force, but it isn't good for the cases and your carbide may frown on it. You could possibly mar, gall, or micro crack the carbide ring. The 9mm base is listed as .394 and the mouth at .380. If the brass is pushed all the way thru the FCD, then that .394 is subject to the .380 dimensions. Not exact as not all brass or dies are all created equal. But you get the idea. You could get another shell holder and shave it a bit if you wanted to get a tad more thru the sizer. Me, I'd toss and move on. I run all range brass thru the headspace gage and kerplunk before reloading. 40 is straight wall so it can be bulge busted.
Using the Makarov as a bulge buster is up to you. The Makarov is .392 (Sierra p767 & Lyman49th p360) at the base and .391 at the mouth (Sierra) or .390 per the Lyman. That's kind of straight I guess. It gets down to the brass base vs the narrowest part of your Mak die.
9mm is shot so much that range brass is plentiful. I'd just toss the 9mm's that fail the cage gage and kerplunk test after the sizer.

[BillM]

Try a EGW U die in the sizing station?
The Dillon sizer has a generous radius on the mouth. Before I went to the
EGW, I would set the Dillon sizer down until I could feel a little cam-over on the
handle. Still had more than a few that wouldn't gauge. With the EGW
U die the "big base" reject rate is under 1%.

[Charlotte514]

After spending $1100 for the 650 plus 3000 rounds of used brass and 6000 FMJ 147 gr RN I would like a fix to this. Are there any drawbacks to using the 38 super resizing die? All I need is about .125 more travel to remove the buldge.

[Charlotte514]

Just checked their website sounds good but would the 38 super completely eliminate the issue.

[Charlotte514]

Yes I have and they will not fire and I have to pound them out.

I just ordered a 38 super die from EGW, we'll see if that works.

[bfoosh006]

Try a little lube in the sizing die.

Also, whose brand case checker ?

Do the oversized cases feed in your firearm ? ( Is it possible the case gauge is out of dimension )

[Charlotte514]

Finally figured out that the brass fired thru my M11/9 is not reloadable due to the bulged case reject rate.

The cost of tossing the 147gr RN plus the primer if the case is OS is more expensive than ordering bulk once fired brass. Apprx .03 a round.

Tried case lube, Evolution (Lee) 38 super undersized and Evolution (Lee) 9mm undersized dies. NO luck.

If anyone is interested I will sell both of these dies for $30 shipped.

[noylj]

1) Does it "plunk" in the barrel? If so, forget the gage
2) Lee and Hornady sizing dies go down further than Dillon. Dillon has the largest "chamfer."
3) Buy the Lee Bulge Buster kit and a Lee 9mm Mak FCD and run all cases through.
With machine gun and loose chambers and 9mm Major, you can pick up some really blown out cases at the range.

[highrolls]

Charlotte514, I would bet that the problem you see, assuming your M11/9 is essentially stock, is caused by the fire rate/cyclic rate of fire. With sub guns, once the cyclic rate goes beyond around 1000 round per minute, the short pistol cases are beginning to extract while there is pressure still in the barrel, thus bulging in the case, and even case blowouts at times particularly with reloads.

One individual who deals with this problem (high cyclic rate) produces a very nice product which essentially redesigns the gun but in a good way. My experience is with the reduction to 650 rpm cyclic rate. I have reloaded some of those cases coming out around 14 times without any problem at all except the case base is so beat up you can no longer read it.

Convert your M11/9 to a Lage 11. Best thing ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9mrOpjMv4

[MosinM39]

"The cost of tossing the 147gr RN plus the primer if the case is OS is more expensive than ordering bulk once fired brass. Apprx .03 a round."

Solution found. If you're shooting a sub gun, and bought a 650, theoretically you can afford high volume shooting. 9mm brass is cheap. I get mine free off a law enforcement range, where its even cheaper. Never a problem with the plunk test. Good luck.

[alexcue]

I've run mine through the XL650 completely, then I chamber check them ALL through a Lyman Checker. Any that fail are run through the Lee Bulge Buster with the 9mm Mak FCD. I found out that if I put a little Imperial size wax on it before I run it through the bulge buster it makes life a whole lot easier. Haven't cracked the die yet! (watch I just jinxed myself!).
Anyway, all these pass the next go around on my Chamber checker. They all work in my 9's after that...

[Charlotte514]

I have 2 Lage uppers with reduced RPM, neither will cycle the reloads.

I appreciate all of the responses, the final solution is I will buy tumbled once fired brass at .03 and will leave them at the range. This is relatively cheap based on the total cost of accessories and running the M11/9.

http://www.monmouthreloading.com/sho...red-9mm-brass/