Mistake in primers

SCSCHNUR · July 1, 2018, 01:16 PM

I loaded some 224 valkyrie and i made a mistake and didn't double look at my primers and they were pistol primers. Can i go ahead and shoot these or should i reload them?

CarJunkieLS1 · July 1, 2018, 01:27 PM

Pull the primers the pistol primers will not take the higher pressure that the rifle round produces. It will likely pierce the primers and could etch your bolt face and damage the firing pin.

mehavey · July 1, 2018, 01:28 PM

The 224V is a mid-high 55+ksi cartridge.
Pistol primers would "more-than-likely" pierce/fail.
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...4-Valkyrie.pdf

**Unclenick** · July 1, 2018, 01:46 PM

Welcome to the forum.

A third caution on the piercing and gas cutting of pits into your bolt face. I limit small pistol primers to under 43,500 psi. This is based on the fact some use them in the .22 Hornet, which is sensitive to excess primer pressure. It has a SAAMI MAP of 43,000 CUP, with no psi standard, but the CIP limits it to 3000 bar, which is 43,500 psi, same as their limit for the .357 Magnum, so it seems like a good number not to surpass. Note, too, that some primers have stronger cups than others. For that reason, your actual best bet is to contact the manufacturer of your particular make of primer and ask what pressure limit they feel is safe with their product.

lordmorgul · July 1, 2018, 02:57 PM

I would not do that even with 5.56mm pressures much less Valkyrie, pull the bullets, it’s less expensive than damage to rifle.

Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member

hounddawg · July 1, 2018, 03:10 PM

another vote for pull em

here is a good link for primer specs so you can see the difference in cup thickness

https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

when you are doing load workups for the Valkyrie keep us update, not much out about it yet

RC20 · July 1, 2018, 03:32 PM

Go with the pull it advice. A lot of times I don't agree, but fully on board with the right thing to do in this case as recommended by all.

3 people have listed very good backup information to support that.

HiBC · July 20, 2018, 07:23 AM

I have seen this happen in some 308 intended for AR-10 type rifles.
Large pistol primers were used.

I fired a few in my DPMS. While I don't put too much stock in reading primers,I do observe them for "sign"

The sign was neat little round holes. I had fired only a few.I did not know the cause,so I put the rifle away for that range trip. I did not load them.

A later loading room trash can search found a large pistol primer empty 100 pkg.

Bolt disassembly showed the little discs entered the bolt via the firing pin hole.

I suppose there is potential for those to jam the firing pin into a fixed firing pin mode. That could cause out of battery ignition. That would be bad.

Observing my firing pin under 10X I saw minor gas etching.A new firing pin was cheap. Unclenick is right,gas cutting can happen very fast.

I would not shoot them.

No lecture,we are fallible humans. The pain of pulling the bullets and salvaging them is a motivation to upgrade storage and process so it won't happen again.

Be grateful it was pistol primers and not pistol powder!

craddleshooter · July 20, 2018, 10:47 AM

It will be best to reload them, that’s way you are sure about you load. The math behind reload is everything. We all hate factory ammo that are unlivable and that happens because of miscalculation.

std7mag · July 20, 2018, 09:21 PM

Another vote for pull them.

jhansman · July 20, 2018, 09:45 PM

One of the 10 rules of reloading (though there are likely a lot more than 10) I keep on my bench: When in doubt, throw it out. If I'm not 100% sure of a round, it gets un-made and recycled. Better safe than....well, you know.

Grey_Lion · July 20, 2018, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhansman

One of the 10 rules of reloading (though there are likely a lot more than 10) I keep on my bench: When in doubt, throw it out. If I'm not 100% sure of a round, it gets un-made and recycled. Better safe than....well, you know.

DITTO!!!

if it's not something I'd defend my family with - scrap it......

rodfac · July 21, 2018, 07:41 AM

I wouldn't, pressures are going to be too high for a pistol cap. The following gives the reason:

Quote:

Pull the primers the pistol primers will not take the higher pressure that the rifle round produces. It will likely pierce the primers and could etch your bolt face and damage the firing pin.

Rod

gwpercle · July 21, 2018, 08:26 AM

Do you have a bullet puller ? If not , time to get one . I have been using a Kinetic type for the last 50 years. It will not damage pulled bullets and you can reuse them.

Next....how do you deprime primed cases , the answer is .....very slowly ! Not kidding you can get a universal depriming die from Lee or adjust your standard die to deprime without resizing the case all the way. This is done so you can feel the live primers being pushed out. The trick is to go gently , slowly and wear ear protection just in case one pops. I have deprimed hundreds of live primed cases (you aren't the only one ) none went off and I even reused the primers. Remember do it slow and gently.
After getting the live primers out I resized and reprimed the cases then loaded ........
Depriming a live case isn't as dangerous as it seems , keep your face and fingers away from the die top ...just in case .

Welcome to the forum !
Gary

RC20 · July 21, 2018, 02:28 PM

I did some tests on a reversed primer to see how hard it was to set off (heavy gloves, goggles, ear protection)

It took a sharp pointed nail and a good blow.

Not easy

While I don't recommend it to anyone, I have no issue de-prming with a sizing die. Just very slowly.

That said by far the best bullet puller is the Hornady with the lever, the Kinetic is fine for two or 3 but a whole bunch? The Hornady collet type is best and the Hornady itself is very good.

I am not a big fan of Hornady equipment, but that item is great.

**Unclenick** · July 21, 2018, 02:55 PM

Agree on the Hornady Cam Lok bullet puller. I had to do over 1,000 surplus rounds I had in which the powder was rapidly deteriorating. I'd have turned most of it over to the fire department before I got close to finishing them with a kinetic puller. I also had to run those deteriorating loads through a seater to crack the seal before I pulled them. Some had verdigris on the necks where the case had corroded through, and those were hopeless and had to go for disposal anyway. But I got over 1000 of the original 1200 pulled down.

gwpercle · July 21, 2018, 05:54 PM

I did 500 military 30-06 AP rounds with the kinetic puller....after breaking the bullet crimp and seal , by seating the bullets just 1/16th inch deeper , sitting on the concrete floor and with two or three whacks it would pull the bullet . Didn't do them all at once .
That was late 1960's and I was young, tough and dirt poor ! Couldn't afford the more expensive collet pullers....today though the Hornady might be easier !
I still have some of those primed military cases...they last a long time .

Gary

July 1, 2018, 01:16 PM	#1
SCSCHNUR Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2018 Posts: 1	Mistake in primers I loaded some 224 valkyrie and i made a mistake and didn't double look at my primers and they were pistol primers. Can i go ahead and shoot these or should i reload them?

July 1, 2018, 01:46 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Welcome to the forum. A third caution on the piercing and gas cutting of pits into your bolt face. I limit small pistol primers to under 43,500 psi. This is based on the fact some use them in the .22 Hornet, which is sensitive to excess primer pressure. It has a SAAMI MAP of 43,000 CUP, with no psi standard, but the CIP limits it to 3000 bar, which is 43,500 psi, same as their limit for the .357 Magnum, so it seems like a good number not to surpass. Note, too, that some primers have stronger cups than others. For that reason, your actual best bet is to contact the manufacturer of your particular make of primer and ask what pressure limit they feel is safe with their product. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 1, 2018, 03:10 PM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	another vote for pull em here is a good link for primer specs so you can see the difference in cup thickness https://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0 when you are doing load workups for the Valkyrie keep us update, not much out about it yet __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

July 1, 2018, 03:32 PM	#7
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Go with the pull it advice. A lot of times I don't agree, but fully on board with the right thing to do in this case as recommended by all. 3 people have listed very good backup information to support that. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

July 20, 2018, 09:21 PM	#10
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Another vote for pull them. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

July 1, 2018, 01:27 PM	#2
CarJunkieLS1 Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2013 Posts: 686	Pull the primers the pistol primers will not take the higher pressure that the rifle round produces. It will likely pierce the primers and could etch your bolt face and damage the firing pin.

July 1, 2018, 01:28 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	The 224V is a mid-high 55+ksi cartridge. Pistol primers would "more-than-likely" pierce/fail. https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...4-Valkyrie.pdf

July 1, 2018, 02:57 PM	#5
lordmorgul Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2016 Posts: 206	I would not do that even with 5.56mm pressures much less Valkyrie, pull the bullets, it’s less expensive than damage to rifle. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member

July 20, 2018, 07:23 AM	#8
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	I have seen this happen in some 308 intended for AR-10 type rifles. Large pistol primers were used. I fired a few in my DPMS. While I don't put too much stock in reading primers,I do observe them for "sign" The sign was neat little round holes. I had fired only a few.I did not know the cause,so I put the rifle away for that range trip. I did not load them. A later loading room trash can search found a large pistol primer empty 100 pkg. Bolt disassembly showed the little discs entered the bolt via the firing pin hole. I suppose there is potential for those to jam the firing pin into a fixed firing pin mode. That could cause out of battery ignition. That would be bad. Observing my firing pin under 10X I saw minor gas etching.A new firing pin was cheap. Unclenick is right,gas cutting can happen very fast. I would not shoot them. No lecture,we are fallible humans. The pain of pulling the bullets and salvaging them is a motivation to upgrade storage and process so it won't happen again. Be grateful it was pistol primers and not pistol powder!

July 20, 2018, 10:47 AM	#9
craddleshooter Junior member Join Date: March 9, 2018 Location: NY Posts: 90	It will be best to reload them, that’s way you are sure about you load. The math behind reload is everything. We all hate factory ammo that are unlivable and that happens because of miscalculation.

July 20, 2018, 09:45 PM	#11
jhansman Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2007 Posts: 680	One of the 10 rules of reloading (though there are likely a lot more than 10) I keep on my bench: When in doubt, throw it out. If I'm not 100% sure of a round, it gets un-made and recycled. Better safe than....well, you know. __________________ Blessed is the man who has nothing to say, and cannot be compelled to say it.

July 21, 2018, 08:26 AM	#14
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Do you have a bullet puller ? If not , time to get one . I have been using a Kinetic type for the last 50 years. It will not damage pulled bullets and you can reuse them. Next....how do you deprime primed cases , the answer is .....very slowly ! Not kidding you can get a universal depriming die from Lee or adjust your standard die to deprime without resizing the case all the way. This is done so you can feel the live primers being pushed out. The trick is to go gently , slowly and wear ear protection just in case one pops. I have deprimed hundreds of live primed cases (you aren't the only one ) none went off and I even reused the primers. Remember do it slow and gently. After getting the live primers out I resized and reprimed the cases then loaded ........ Depriming a live case isn't as dangerous as it seems , keep your face and fingers away from the die top ...just in case . Welcome to the forum ! Gary

July 21, 2018, 02:28 PM	#15
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I did some tests on a reversed primer to see how hard it was to set off (heavy gloves, goggles, ear protection) It took a sharp pointed nail and a good blow. Not easy While I don't recommend it to anyone, I have no issue de-prming with a sizing die. Just very slowly. That said by far the best bullet puller is the Hornady with the lever, the Kinetic is fine for two or 3 but a whole bunch? The Hornady collet type is best and the Hornady itself is very good. I am not a big fan of Hornady equipment, but that item is great. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

July 21, 2018, 02:55 PM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Agree on the Hornady Cam Lok bullet puller. I had to do over 1,000 surplus rounds I had in which the powder was rapidly deteriorating. I'd have turned most of it over to the fire department before I got close to finishing them with a kinetic puller. I also had to run those deteriorating loads through a seater to crack the seal before I pulled them. Some had verdigris on the necks where the case had corroded through, and those were hopeless and had to go for disposal anyway. But I got over 1000 of the original 1200 pulled down. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 21, 2018, 05:54 PM	#17
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	I did 500 military 30-06 AP rounds with the kinetic puller....after breaking the bullet crimp and seal , by seating the bullets just 1/16th inch deeper , sitting on the concrete floor and with two or three whacks it would pull the bullet . Didn't do them all at once . That was late 1960's and I was young, tough and dirt poor ! Couldn't afford the more expensive collet pullers....today though the Hornady might be easier ! I still have some of those primed military cases...they last a long time . Gary