Legal Community Against Violence State Rankings

Bernie Lomax · October 24, 2010, 12:09 PM

http://www.lcav.org/Gun_Laws_Matter/...tter_Chart.pdf

I have my doubts about this list, just like I do about the Brady rankings. Arizona was ranked last, lower than Montana, even though Montana does not prohibit felons or mental patients from having guns. I think it's because this place is a liberal California outfit, and Arizona is the state that California liberals love to hate. I wouldn't be surprised if they tailored their methodology a little bit to make Arizona come in dead last.

Anyway, whatever you think of it, it's certainly interesting to look at.

**Bud Helms** · October 24, 2010, 12:13 PM

I think this one will fit well in Law & Civil Rights.

Moving ...

MTT TL · October 24, 2010, 01:09 PM

Gosh, I would think that any study that gives negative ratings for higher household gun ownership is worthless.

For example South Dakota has a lower incidence of "gun death rate" and a lower incidence of "crime gun export rate" (whatever these are) yet California is rated #1 while South Dakota is rated #35.

So I am calling the whole thing stupid.

brickeyee · October 24, 2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Gosh, I would think that any study that gives negative ratings for higher household gun ownership is worthless.

For example South Dakota has a lower incidence of "gun death rate" and a lower incidence of "crime gun export rate" (whatever these are) yet California is rated #1 while South Dakota is rated #35.

So I am calling the whole thing stupid.

Junk like this is all based on what criteria are used and how they are weighted.

There is no actual science behind it.

Crosshair · October 24, 2010, 02:35 PM

Looks like a bunch of random numbers to me. Not seeing any correlation in the data. If there is one could it please be pointed out tome?

Mr Lucky · October 24, 2010, 02:45 PM

This is total Horse Pucky. :barf:

Glenn Dee · October 24, 2010, 06:53 PM

Total nonsense. Look at the numbers... for example New York has lower numbers than California across the board. Yet it's lower on the list than california. This has all the earmarks of a couple of idiots smoking some pot in their mothers basement, and put together a numbers chart that only makes sense to them... When they are high.

I KNOW that Florida has higher than 20% households owning firearms.

This chart might make it as toilet paper, but not much more.

Crosshair · October 24, 2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Yet it's lower on the list than california. This has all the earmarks of a couple of idiots smoking some pot in their mothers basement, and put together a numbers chart that only makes sense to them... When they are high.

Please don't insult people who smoke weed. They come up with much better stuff than this.

armoredman · October 24, 2010, 10:17 PM

Now you know what happens to people who smoke crack.

Always proud to be the bottom of any anti-rights people's list - we'd prefer they don't come here.

Al Norris · October 24, 2010, 10:41 PM

Hey, amoredman! Notice which State is right next to you?

Folks, LCAV is the Lawyers version of the Brady Campaign. They have been busy trying to get various States and communities to pass regulations to ban guns, ammo and ... just about anything to do with guns. They mostly operate out of and in CA, but they have been known to "seed" other areas.

LCAV is staffed with attorneys from highly prestigious S.F. law firms.

DogoDon · October 25, 2010, 05:08 PM

There is a very good article in the November issue of the America's 1st Freedom magazine, debunking the LCAV rankings. They computed Spearman's correlation coefficients of LCAV state gun control severity rankings, against total violent crime, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, robbery, aggravated assault, property crime, burglary, gun death, and household gun ownership.

Not surprisingly (at least for people who aren't rabid gun haters), the correlation coefficients did not bear out LCAV's argument that more-strict gun control laws = less gun crimes/deaths. In fact, the coefficients for total violent crime, murder/manslaughter, robbery, and aggravated assault were actually negative, meaning that more-restrictive gun control laws correlate with higher (not lower) rates of these crimes.

The only significantly positive coefficient (+0.74) was the one for household gun ownership. In other words, more-restrictive gun control laws correlate with lower rates of household gun ownership. No big surprise there!

DD

**44 AMP** · October 25, 2010, 07:42 PM

If I am reading their medthodology correctly, they are ranking the states based on their approval of the state's gun laws. A totally arbitrary system. Plus points for restrictive laws, minus points for ccw laws and other things that would, in their eyes, promote gun violence.

The data for murders, gun crimes, "export" and gun ownership % households is not part of the ranking, it is merely provided for our "education".

Mr Lucky · October 25, 2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

If I am reading their medthodology correctly, they are ranking the states based on their approval of the state's gun laws. A totally arbitrary system. Plus points for restrictive laws, minus points for ccw laws and other things that would, in their eyes, promote gun violence.

The data for murders, gun crimes, "export" and gun ownership % households is not part of the ranking, it is merely provided for our "education".

44 AMP,

I'm not sure what the date of this publication is but it is similar to what Chicago Mayor Daly presented to a group of mayors. The statistics about export deals with weather a state exports or imports more guns to other states that are then used in the commission of a crime. For example, Daly says Illinois and NY imports more guns from other states that are used in crimes. He claims most of the exports are southern states.

Right.

teeroux · October 25, 2010, 08:13 PM

Junk stats not even current or in the same year ranges.

October 24, 2010, 02:35 PM	#5
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Looks like a bunch of random numbers to me. Not seeing any correlation in the data. If there is one could it please be pointed out tome? __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

October 24, 2010, 02:45 PM	#6
Mr Lucky Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 195	This is total Horse Pucky. :barf: __________________ ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’ — Abraham Lincoln

October 25, 2010, 07:42 PM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Red Herring If I am reading their medthodology correctly, they are ranking the states based on their approval of the state's gun laws. A totally arbitrary system. Plus points for restrictive laws, minus points for ccw laws and other things that would, in their eyes, promote gun violence. The data for murders, gun crimes, "export" and gun ownership % households is not part of the ranking, it is merely provided for our "education". __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 24, 2010, 12:09 PM	#1
Bernie Lomax Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2010 Posts: 178	Legal Community Against Violence State Rankings http://www.lcav.org/Gun_Laws_Matter/...tter_Chart.pdf I have my doubts about this list, just like I do about the Brady rankings. Arizona was ranked last, lower than Montana, even though Montana does not prohibit felons or mental patients from having guns. I think it's because this place is a liberal California outfit, and Arizona is the state that California liberals love to hate. I wouldn't be surprised if they tailored their methodology a little bit to make Arizona come in dead last. Anyway, whatever you think of it, it's certainly interesting to look at.

October 24, 2010, 12:13 PM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I think this one will fit well in Law & Civil Rights. Moving ...

October 24, 2010, 01:09 PM	#3
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	Gosh, I would think that any study that gives negative ratings for higher household gun ownership is worthless. For example South Dakota has a lower incidence of "gun death rate" and a lower incidence of "crime gun export rate" (whatever these are) yet California is rated #1 while South Dakota is rated #35. So I am calling the whole thing stupid. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

October 24, 2010, 06:53 PM	#7
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Total nonsense. Look at the numbers... for example New York has lower numbers than California across the board. Yet it's lower on the list than california. This has all the earmarks of a couple of idiots smoking some pot in their mothers basement, and put together a numbers chart that only makes sense to them... When they are high. I KNOW that Florida has higher than 20% households owning firearms. This chart might make it as toilet paper, but not much more.

October 24, 2010, 10:17 PM	#9
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	Now you know what happens to people who smoke crack. Always proud to be the bottom of any anti-rights people's list - we'd prefer they don't come here.

October 24, 2010, 10:41 PM	#10
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Hey, amoredman! Notice which State is right next to you? Folks, LCAV is the Lawyers version of the Brady Campaign. They have been busy trying to get various States and communities to pass regulations to ban guns, ammo and ... just about anything to do with guns. They mostly operate out of and in CA, but they have been known to "seed" other areas. LCAV is staffed with attorneys from highly prestigious S.F. law firms.

October 25, 2010, 05:08 PM	#11
DogoDon Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 368	There is a very good article in the November issue of the America's 1st Freedom magazine, debunking the LCAV rankings. They computed Spearman's correlation coefficients of LCAV state gun control severity rankings, against total violent crime, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, robbery, aggravated assault, property crime, burglary, gun death, and household gun ownership. Not surprisingly (at least for people who aren't rabid gun haters), the correlation coefficients did not bear out LCAV's argument that more-strict gun control laws = less gun crimes/deaths. In fact, the coefficients for total violent crime, murder/manslaughter, robbery, and aggravated assault were actually negative, meaning that more-restrictive gun control laws correlate with higher (not lower) rates of these crimes. The only significantly positive coefficient (+0.74) was the one for household gun ownership. In other words, more-restrictive gun control laws correlate with lower rates of household gun ownership. No big surprise there! DD

October 25, 2010, 08:13 PM	#14
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	Junk stats not even current or in the same year ranges.