|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
October 2, 2023, 01:46 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,803
|
Hunter may use Bruen to beat gun rap.
Hunter may use Bruen to beat gun rap.
https://www.aol.com/news/us-supreme-...100220300.html Seems his lawyers are going to use the Bruen decision so Hunter Biden probably won't face prosecution for his possession of a firearm while using drugs or in possession of drugs. Makes me wonder if that doesn't open a Pandora's box letting all felons so charged skate or released from prison id sentence as such? Somewhat ironic it seems to me. Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION! |
October 2, 2023, 03:28 PM | #2 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,868
|
This is the one, possible bright spot in the nepotistic protection of Hunter Biden.
IF, (and I do actually hope it works), IF the argument that the law is invalid, because since the Bruen decision, it would be found unconstitutional, THEN that does open the door to review and possibly exoneration of everyone convicted of that same offense. HOWEVER, it may not come to pass, because there are two issues involved here. One is Hunter buying a gun while demonstrably an illegal drug user. The other is, and could be treated separately, and that is lying on the 4473 form. The defense may focus on the Bruen rules regarding historical precedent and claim the law invalid due to that, but if the prosecution focuses on the fact that he lied on the form (and the form clearly states that is a crime, in and of itself, which, it does) he could still be found guilty of that crime, and the drug matter could simply be ignored/glossed over. What he lied about doesn't matter all that much, as long as it is provable that he did lie about something, then he could be convicted of that. Best case, for us, we swallow the distaste of seeing Hunter walk, but get the law overturned as a result. less good, he gets convicted and the law stays unchanged. Worst case, he walks and the law remains unchanged. that's how I see it, at the present time
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
October 3, 2023, 03:40 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,752
|
He Walks ...
It ain't what you know ... it's who you know . But at least they nailed that horrible criminal ... Martha Stewart ! Gary |
October 3, 2023, 04:24 PM | #4 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
The word for the day is irony. Here's what President Biden had to say about the Bruen decision when it was published:
Quote:
Most likely outcome is, the President just pardons his son on the way out.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
October 3, 2023, 05:21 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,427
|
One of the lawyers that wrote briefs for Bruen has a personal hatred of the idea of non-violent felons becoming prohibited persons for life, as well as the ridiculously arduous and slow process for restoring rights after exoneration. So, he should be dancing in the streets.
I don't know what language was in the briefs, however. I haven't read them.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
October 3, 2023, 10:30 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,811
|
We better hope that he isn't convicted on THIS gun charge. If he is 1/2 the gun owners in the country could be in trouble.
Not going to get into the politics of what he may or may not have done and if he is guilty or not of other things. That is a separate issue. But bringing the gun charges was really a stretch. He won't be convicted of the gun charges, nor should he be. If he is, then Trump must be convicted of the same crime. There is a stronger case against him violating the law by having his photo made while in possession of a Glock pistol while under indictment than they have against Hunter Biden.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill |
October 3, 2023, 11:01 PM | #7 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,868
|
Quote:
I mean, yes Trump technically possessed it while holding it, but I think that might be a different matter from possession where the gun was taken home and, if I recall correctly was later found in a dumpster?? IF you could leave their political personalities out of the picture (not sure that's possible in the real world) but only considering points of law, is there a difference between being prohibited from acquiring firearms while under inditement (which is an as yet unproven accusation) and willingly intentionally lying on the federal form in order to obtain a firearm? Admittedly both are violations of law, but are they, should they be treated equally?? Are they both actually violations of the same law? Is it the possible that some variant of "bearing false witness /lying under oath" is a separate matter??
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
October 4, 2023, 02:54 AM | #8 | ||
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
||
October 4, 2023, 06:12 AM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,464
|
Quote:
That said, it would be great if HB beat that charge by employing the 2d and 5th.
__________________
http://www.npboards.com/index.php |
|
October 4, 2023, 10:23 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 2,607
|
Quote:
The other issue is that he lied on the 4473 about it and he lied to an FFL. Both are illegal and won't be affected by Bruen. Perjury is not protected by the Second Amendment. Prosecuting Trump holding a gun for a photo at a gun dealer would be a stretch, even under current standards for prosecuting Trump.
__________________
Time Travelers' Wisdom: Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow. If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again. |
|
October 4, 2023, 11:50 AM | #11 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,868
|
Quote:
Her parole officer saw them, and she went back to prison. In the larger picture of the matter, I find it somewhat ironic that, back when Joe Biden was VP, he was caught on camera (not a scheduled interview) being asked why the Fed govt didn't do more to prosecute people who illegally tried to get guns by lying on the Fed form. His answer (and I saw it, personally) was a dismissive hand wave and "we don't have time for that". Seems like now that he's Pres and it is HIS SON facing charges, he has time for it....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
October 5, 2023, 08:29 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2018
Posts: 206
|
I don't know the 4473 by heart, so forgive me, but wouldn't President Trump have to actually be convicted of a felony to be in violation of the felony prohibitions in the 4473?
|
October 5, 2023, 09:14 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
A prohibited person is a prohibited person, no matter if a form is filled out or not… at least that’s my view on it.
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
October 5, 2023, 10:16 AM | #14 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,477
|
Quote:
http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/downl...f-f-4473-1.pdf
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic |
|
October 5, 2023, 10:27 AM | #15 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 2,607
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Biden has since changed his tune and has been running a no tolerance campaign against FFLs and people who lie on 4473s. Well, most people.
__________________
Time Travelers' Wisdom: Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow. If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again. |
|||
October 5, 2023, 10:54 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2018
Posts: 206
|
Thanks!
|
October 5, 2023, 01:49 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 4,464
|
Quote:
If a person is so dangerous that he shouldn't have a gun, should he be out and about with access to knives, cars, fertilizer and gasoline?
__________________
http://www.npboards.com/index.php Last edited by zukiphile; October 5, 2023 at 02:13 PM. |
|
October 5, 2023, 03:25 PM | #18 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,868
|
Quote:
This is the crap that bugs me most about the so called "red flag" laws. Take someone's guns, based on an accusation, (not a conviction) and leave them on the street with all the means to acquire more weapons or any other means of causing harm? How the heck does that make anyone "safer"????? ITs not the tools that make someone dangerous, its the desire and the will.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
October 5, 2023, 03:49 PM | #19 | ||||||
Staff
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,821
|
This raises an interesting wrinkle. As Tom Servo and Aguila Blanca point out:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So it does not appear that simple possession of a firearm is barred by a felony indictment, in and of itself. (Leaving the question about domestic violence cases to the side for the moment.) It does appear to bar the one under felony indictment from shipping or transporting a firearm, and it bars everyone else from selling to or disposing of a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is under indictment.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
||||||
|
|