September 30, 2012, 09:53 PM | #2626 |
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The Univision Special has started to generate more reports
ABC, basically re-reporting what Univision turned up:
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/...ry?id=17361775 Discrepancies in what Mexican authorities found and what has been reported to Congress. It could be because of a simple error on the part of DOJ, it could be the Mexican authorities have newer data - I don't know but I do think it calls into question once again the veracity of DOJ and Eric Holder, which is good - it should be questioned, I think the mainstream media has given Holder a pass with all of his excuses, implausible answers and misdirection. This second report by Univision addresses the other gun running operations that were in play, which the U.S. Media has largely ignored. it seems like if it isn't called Fast and Furious - it's not news worthy to the U.S. media, but Univision is going after those operations too and they linked a Texas gunrunning operation to the death of Jaime Zapata. http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/...ry?id=17352694 Last edited by Luger_carbine; September 30, 2012 at 10:07 PM. |
October 1, 2012, 05:17 PM | #2627 |
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It's curious, though, that Congressional investigators did not respond to Univision's request for serial numbers (per the ABC report). You would think they would respond in some manner, even if only to explain why they could not turn over the numbers. Instead, Univision had to compare using some deductive reasoning.
While the murder of a U.S. Border Agent with one of the weapons might conceivably have been unforeseeable, the use of guns to commit murder and other crimes in Mexico was almost inevitable. Obama apologizes for everything else. I can't see why he won't apologize to Mexico and the families of the victims. Oh, wait --- I do know why. It happened on his watch, not somebody else's. |
October 1, 2012, 11:56 PM | #2628 |
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KyJim closed with the following:
"While the murder of a U.S. Border Agent with one of the weapons might conceivably have been unforeseeable, the use of guns to commit murder and other crimes in Mexico was almost inevitable. Obama apologizes for everything else. I can't see why he won't apologize to Mexico and the families of the victims. Oh, wait --- I do know why. It happened on his watch, not somebody else's. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wonder as to how many of the citizenry happened to notice that detail, an interesting detail too. |
October 2, 2012, 06:29 AM | #2629 | |
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Fast and Furious was the brainchild of the career bureaucrats of the BATFE; the same career bureaucrats who brought you Ruby Ridge and Waco. The career bureaucrats of the BATFE have been out of control for decades.
Think of operation Wide Receiver as a pilot run for operation Fast and Furious: Both operations were run by the same career bureaucrats of the BATFE. The career bureaucrats of the Phoenix office of the BATFE ginned up operation Fast and Furious and got it blessed by the US AG for AZ. It morphed into a monster involving other federal agencies. http://oversight.house.gov/wp-conten...nd-Furious.pdf Quote:
Many years ago i had my very own experience with a career bureaucrat of the BATFE. In 1979 i was a US Army M/Sgt. in an EOD unit. The BATFE raided the home of a prominent physician and gun collector. A federal judge ordered the return of the doctors guns and ammo. Hundreds of thousands of rounds of expensive ammunition had disappeared along with some of the guns. The scurillious SAC wanted tried to force me to write a statement for the federal judge saying the BATFE had turned that ammo over to my unit for disposal and that i had destroyed the ammo. Yeah, i was a naive Army troop but lying to federal judges was out of my league. |
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October 2, 2012, 09:01 AM | #2630 |
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And now we have another Border Patrol Agent, out of the Naco/Brian Terry Station, killed with a second Agent wounded.
A search for the shooters is now underway, but I'm guessing that they're already across the line.
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October 2, 2012, 11:32 AM | #2631 |
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More from Univision: apparently Juarez cartel kingpin Jose Antonio Acosta Hernandez was found with Fast & Furious weapons when he was taken into custody.
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October 2, 2012, 11:53 AM | #2632 | |
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Quote:
It all seems like pie in the sky wishfull thinking now - but I think it was this single minded focus that kept Dennis Burke from seeing the fatal falws in the plan. I think it was Burke who came up with the idea and he had sympathetic ears at BATFE. |
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October 2, 2012, 12:38 PM | #2633 |
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This clip has been on youtube for awhile. No one has posted it (I don't think) so I thought I would. Good video of Napalitano talking about "fortifying" Project Gunrunner which, we all know, became "Fast & Furious".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9sBB...layer_embedded
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October 2, 2012, 01:31 PM | #2634 | |
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Dennis Burke was one of the movers and shakers behind the 1994 "assault weapons" ban.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obam...st-and-furious Quote:
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October 2, 2012, 03:43 PM | #2635 |
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Washington Post on fact checker about Obama on Univision.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e190_blog.html
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October 2, 2012, 05:19 PM | #2636 |
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Re the latest shooting incident involving Border Patrol agents, one dead, one wounded, the following question comes to miind. Do we here see the chickens of Operation Fast & Furious coming home to roost?
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October 2, 2012, 05:27 PM | #2637 |
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Obama appoints wife of Univision owner to UN diplomatic post
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/2...univision.html I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
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October 2, 2012, 08:21 PM | #2638 |
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I would hate to see the death of a law enforcement officer politicized.
The fact is that it is a dangerous area. The architects of Fast & Furious sought to politicize that fact and blame the area's problems on lax gun control laws. They sought to boolster evidence for their claims by practically giving weapons to the cartels. But this latest weapon will either be from a gun walking operation which I think will cause pressure to build on President Obama to rescind his EP, or the weapon(s) won't be from the U.S. which will support the argument that the cartels weren't getting their weapons by purchasing them from U.S. gun stores - they have the ability to procure weapons more easily elsewhere. |
October 2, 2012, 10:59 PM | #2639 |
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Luger_carbine wrote:
"I would hate to see the death of a law enforcement officer politicized. The fact is that it is a dangerous area. The architects of Fast & Furious sought to politicize that fact and blame the area's problems on lax gun control laws. They sought to boolster evidence for their claims by practically giving weapons to the cartels. But this latest weapon will either be from a gun walking operation which I think will cause pressure to build on President Obama to rescind his EP, or the weapon(s) won't be from the U.S. which will support the argument that the cartels weren't getting their weapons by purchasing them from U.S. gun stores - they have the ability to procure weapons more easily elsewhere. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re the closing of the foregoing, the following aspect of things has long left me curious. Why on earth would the Mexican Drug Cartel types, who seemingly suffer from no lack of funds bother purchasing over priced, pale imitations of the AK-47 from U.S. gun shops, a few at a time, when they could easily swing the purchase of plane loads, possibly shiploads of the real thing, as much lower unit prices? Am I perhaps missing a salient point or two here? |
October 3, 2012, 01:47 PM | #2640 | |
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alan said:
Quote:
The whole thing stinks. DEA and ATF should both be hammered severely for playing so loose with the cartels.
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October 3, 2012, 03:36 PM | #2641 |
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NWPilgrim wrote:
IIRC the problem is that the cartels buying the F&F guns are the ones we were protecting (Sinanola?). It may have been part of our "working relationship" with the cartels: "Do us a favor and buy some guns from US shops, we will guarantee they will be sold to you and oh BTW, remember we gave you a few million dollars via drug purchases so you should have the cash to but these." The whole thing stinks. DEA and ATF should both be hammered severely for playing so loose with the cartels. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, the whole thing does stink, and a number of "government agencies/departments" should be hammered severely, which is perhaps an overly polite way of stating the case. That having been said, we now come to the difference between the way things are, and the way they should be. I submit than none of the above specified or by inference referenced will end up with some much as a "hair seriously out of place", for the bureaucrats take good care of each other, and devil take the hindmost, that being The Body Politic or The Citizenry. |
October 4, 2012, 10:33 AM | #2642 |
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Luger_carbine quotijng another post offered the following:
"The career bureaucrats of the Phoenix office of the BATFE ginned up operation Fast and Furious and got it blessed by the US AG for AZ. " Pardon me for asking a possibly dumb question. The "career bureaucrats" mentioned in the quote, our British cousins might describe then as "senoir civil servants" , supposedly operate in the public interest. How come these "career bureaucrats" or whatever one might call them were operarting in a manner so far removed from the interests of the public? This aspect of the situation leaves the following question standing there, awaiting an answer. Given that these "public servants/career bureaucrats" weren't operating in the public interest, or in a manner that might foster the interests thereof, in whose interests were these "career bureaucrats" operating, and how come it appears that those interests were so far removed from those of the public, that unloved group who pay the bills, who employ these same "career bureaucrats"? Last edited by alan; October 4, 2012 at 10:46 AM. |
October 4, 2012, 11:34 AM | #2643 |
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Re my last post # 2640), and question(s) therein, might it turn out that these "career bureaucrats" are in business for themselves, that the foolishness inherent in Operation Fast & Furious turns out to be a plain old fashioned exercise in the pursuit of ever more, as in even more power and greater authority to and for the same careerists?
Might it be that the unending quest for that "corner office", the bigger desk, the prettier secretary are behind this entire fiasco, and that supposed "adults" the present administration lacked the sense of responsibility needed to check the antics of spoiled rotten children? Who knows, but the possibilities appear endless. |
October 4, 2012, 01:12 PM | #2644 |
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The only problem with limiting responsibility to career bureaucrats is that the heads of agencies ARE responsible for what goes on in their agency. If they are not aware of it then it is dereliction of duty. They are SUPPOSED to know about major projects. The troubling thing is how could an operation that involves foreign parties and govts NOT be on the radar of heads of ATF, DEA, and State?
If mid-level managers were able to pull this off without director approval then those agencies are in serious need of overhaul. Somehow I don't find that scenario credible. At any rate, regardless of whether they knew what was going on in their own agency, directors are responsible for such large programs that involve another country and drug cartels and should be held to account.
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October 4, 2012, 05:35 PM | #2645 |
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NWPilgrim:
In my opinion, both the directors and mid-level managers should be held responsible. As for the "ATF", that agency has been in need of a major overhaul for lo these many years. Unfortunately, The Congress, under administrations both Democratic as well as Republican has shied away from the necessary action. |
October 4, 2012, 09:07 PM | #2646 | |
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Quote:
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October 5, 2012, 08:26 PM | #2647 |
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Latest Border patrol shooting - friendly fire?
http://www.policeone.com/border-patr...friendly-fire/
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October 6, 2012, 05:41 AM | #2648 |
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On the "friendly fire".Time will tell,I guess My cynical side thinks 30 days before the election ....nuff said
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October 6, 2012, 11:01 AM | #2649 |
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Despite the fact that Mexico has already arrested two alleged suspects, it is now believed that there were, in fact, NO "suspects" involved.
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October 6, 2012, 02:36 PM | #2650 |
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Next I’m sure we will hear the agent Brian Terry jumped on the bullets in a fit of rage over a beer tab or some other absurd thing like lead rain caused by unusual clouds... No suspects in any of this... just absurdity.... and a very honorable agent who lost his life due to a political ploy named F&F..
Anything but place the blame where it belongs...
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